Suggestion to resolve advance-stop line problem

I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with advance
stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light, to find
the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a motor vehicle.

However, that vehicle is frequently there for perfectly innocent reasons,
having been part of a slow moving queue of traffic, stranded there when the
lights turned red.

Perhaps these advanced stop zones should become box-junctions that cyclists
can enter. This would ensure that no innocent, law abiding motorist can
become stranded there, therefore avoiding being tarred with the same brush
as the more impertinent variety!

Any thoughts?

"Michael Calwell" wrote in message
m...
I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with advance
stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light, to
find
the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a motor vehicle.

However, that vehicle is frequently there for perfectly innocent reasons,
having been part of a slow moving queue of traffic, stranded there when
the
lights turned red.

Perhaps these advanced stop zones should become box-junctions that
cyclists
can enter. This would ensure that no innocent, law abiding motorist can
become stranded there, therefore avoiding being tarred with the same
brush
as the more impertinent variety!

Any thoughts?

These advance stop lines are a complete waste of roadspace and paint. No
cyclist pays the slightest attention to them. The average SOAP doesn't even
bother to use cycle lanes, either, prefering to ride on a narrow and busy
main roadway with other traffic, feigning outrage when not given as much
room as they would like.

"Michael Calwell" wrote in message
m...
I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with advance
stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light, to
find
the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a motor vehicle.

However, that vehicle is frequently there for perfectly innocent reasons,
having been part of a slow moving queue of traffic, stranded there when
the
lights turned red.

Perhaps these advanced stop zones should become box-junctions that
cyclists
can enter. This would ensure that no innocent, law abiding motorist can
become stranded there, therefore avoiding being tarred with the same
brush
as the more impertinent variety!

Any thoughts?


Good point but can't help thinking that even the poor old innocent motorist
will take as much notice of them as the yellow hatched boxed junctions. In
an ideal world and all that ;-)
Dave.

From: "Nick Finnigan"
Newsgroups: uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:31:52 +0100
Subject: Suggestion to resolve advance-stop line problem

"Michael Calwell" wrote in message
m...
I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with advance
stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light, to find
the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a motor vehicle.

It is not reserved for cyclists.

Certainly not when the traffic is moving (!?)

However, that vehicle is frequently there for perfectly innocent reasons,
having been part of a slow moving queue of traffic, stranded there when the
lights turned red.

Which is allowed.

Yes, I suppose it is. The point is, it shouldn't be. It is in blatant
contravention of the purpose of these improvements for motorists to enter
them without a clear exit. One would hope that flagrant violators of the law
would be prosecuted, but it would be unfair to penalise the innocent caught
up in what would appear to be a grey area.

Perhaps these advanced stop zones should become box-junctions that cyclists
can enter. This would ensure that no innocent, law abiding motorist can
become stranded there, therefore avoiding being tarred with the same brush
as the more impertinent variety!

Any thoughts?

You cannot guarantee that no vehicle is (legally) passing
the advanced stop line when the lights change to amber.

Therefore (in the same vein) are you suggesting that box junctions are
unenforceable?

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Michael Calwell" wrote in message
m...
I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with advance
stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light, to
find
the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a motor
vehicle.

However, that vehicle is frequently there for perfectly innocent
reasons,
having been part of a slow moving queue of traffic, stranded there when
the
lights turned red.

Perhaps these advanced stop zones should become box-junctions that
cyclists
can enter. This would ensure that no innocent, law abiding motorist can
become stranded there, therefore avoiding being tarred with the same
brush
as the more impertinent variety!

Any thoughts?


Good point but can't help thinking that even the poor old innocent
motorist
will take as much notice of them as the yellow hatched boxed junctions. In
an ideal world and all that ;-)
Dave.



Oh sh*t!! Cross posted - nil points for observation!...
and I know I'm going to regret this but what's a SOAP ?? (must be important
'cos it's being shouted ;-)

From: "Ian Henden"
Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service
Newsgroups: uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:25:06 +0100
Subject: Suggestion to resolve advance-stop line problem

These advance stop lines are a complete waste of roadspace and paint. No
cyclist pays the slightest attention to them. The average SOAP doesn't even
bother to use cycle lanes, either, prefering to ride on a narrow and busy
main roadway with other traffic, feigning outrage when not given as much
room as they would like.

What is a SOAP?

Ian Henden wrote:
These advance stop lines are a complete waste of roadspace and paint.
No cyclist pays the slightest attention to them. The average SOAP
doesn't even bother to use cycle lanes, either, prefering to ride on
a narrow and busy main roadway with other traffic, feigning outrage
when not given as much room as they would like.

Are you from uk.transport by any chance?

FWIW, ALSLs are one of the few "cycling facilities" that I like. Cycle
lanes are generally terrible to ride on because they are narrow, twisty,
rough, bumpy and full of broken glass and dog ****.

~PB

"Ian Henden" wrote in message
...

"Michael Calwell" wrote in message
m...
I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with advance
stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light, to
find
the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a motor
vehicle.

However, that vehicle is frequently there for perfectly innocent
reasons,
having been part of a slow moving queue of traffic, stranded there when
the
lights turned red.

Perhaps these advanced stop zones should become box-junctions that
cyclists
can enter. This would ensure that no innocent, law abiding motorist can
become stranded there, therefore avoiding being tarred with the same
brush
as the more impertinent variety!

Any thoughts?

These advance stop lines are a complete waste of roadspace and paint. No
cyclist pays the slightest attention to them. The average SOAP doesn't
even
bother to use cycle lanes, either, prefering to ride on a narrow and busy
main roadway with other traffic, feigning outrage when not given as much
room as they would like.


....and for what it's worth (guessing I might be a SOAP...but NEVER average),
I never feign my outrage. It's always genuine, especially when I am not
allowed what I would consider, as a car driver, a reasonable amount of room
when on my bike ;-)
Dave.
Car driver, motorcyclist, cyclist, pedestrian and human bean (just watch me
jump!!)

Cycle
lanes are generally terrible to ride on because they are narrow, twisty,
rough, bumpy and full of broken glass and dog ****.

And ingenious roadblocks made from empty drinks bottles, as I discovered
today.

--
Jon

Nick Finnigan wrote:
"Michael Calwell" wrote in message
m...
I have a suggestion to resolve one of the current problems with
advance stop lines for cyclists.

Few things are as annoying to a cyclist as arriving at a red light,
to find the advanced stop space reserved for cyclists occupied by a
motor vehicle.

It is not reserved for cyclists.

Yes it is. See http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.shtml#154:

Advanced stop lines. Some junctions have advanced stop lines or bus advance
areas to allow cycles and buses to be positioned ahead of other traffic.
Motorists MUST wait behind the first white line reached, and not encroach on
the marked area. Allow cyclists and buses time and space to move off when
the green signal shows.