"Bicycles Should Not be Allowed on Footpaths"

From: [a Marin County resident]
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: Mt.bikes on trails

I have lived in Marin County for 50 years, seeing firsthand the rise
of, and impact from, mountain bicycling. I am an equestrian and
hiker. I am sorry to tell you that, by allowing mt.bikes on
inappropriate trails in the first place, you let the camel's nose into
the tent and the rest of it is half-way in.
Despite the written "rules" of IMBA for mt.bikers, we have seen to
our dismay that there are NO controls on bicycles out in the
preserves, parks, or other public lands. Speed limits? Don't make me
laugh! Signs? Regularly stolen or defaced. After almost being
skidded into, I had the mt.biker tell me he was going too fast to read
the signs (3 of them!) saying "no bicycles." Alternate days usage, or
"bikes uphill only" rules?? Forget that -- you need 24x7 enforcement
to make it work. Education? Ha! We had one prominent mt.biker,
Michael More, recently caught for the SECOND time, building illegal
bike trail on public land -- this time, in China Camp State Park; the
first time, federal (GGNRA) land.
If mt.bikes are allowed, you are heading for accidents and perhaps
a fatality on these steep, narrow trails -- as has happened elsewhere
in California and as the mt.bikers desperately want people to ignore
and forget about. When mt.bikers are on narrow trails, foot traffic
and equestrians go elsewhere -- they are displaced.
Bicycles should not be allowed on footpaths, also called singletrack
trails, because of the overwhelming safety hazards they present to
other users -- the elderly, the hard-of-hearing, young families,
equestrians. We can share wide (8 ft. and wider) trails where there
is room to jump aside and where sight-lines are generally longer. Note
that the bike rider is not disenfrancised -- s/he can always hike
these footpaths. It's only the vehicle that is restricted.
What can be done for those who still want to shred the trails in
pursuit of their personal best, is to help them locate private
property where they can sign a lease agreement that will allow them to
build whatever hazards, jumps, etc., they want -- and disregard the
damage to the environment.
I urge you to immediately ban mountain bicycle use of your steep
footpaths.
Sincerely, [a Marin County resident]

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Jul 16, 11:35*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
From: [a Marin County resident]
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: Mt.bikes on trails

I have lived in Marin County for 50 years, seeing firsthand the rise
of, and impact from, mountain bicycling. *I am an equestrian and
hiker. *

Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

On Jul 17, 9:20*am, Siskuwihane wrote:
Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

I find the ankle twisting hoof prints to be more of a pain than the
droppings, myself.

wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:20 am, Siskuwihane wrote:
Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

I find the ankle twisting hoof prints to be more of a pain than the
droppings, myself.

Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

In addition, the horse is much more dangerous to other users than a
bicycle. A panicked, rearing horse can easily kill someone.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:38:31 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:20 am, Siskuwihane wrote:
Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

I find the ankle twisting hoof prints to be more of a pain than the
droppings, myself.

Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

In addition, the horse is much more dangerous to other users than a
bicycle. A panicked, rearing horse can easily kill someone.

So can a fast-moving bicycle. A bike going downhill fast is MUCH more
dangerous than a horse. What do you think CAUSES panic in horses? Only
bikes coming too fast around blind turns. Without bikes around, horses
aren't dangerous at all.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Jul 18, 11:20*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:38:31 -0500, Tom Sherman





wrote:
wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:20 am, Siskuwihane wrote:
Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

I find the ankle twisting hoof prints to be more of a pain than the
droppings, myself.

Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

In addition, the horse is much more dangerous to other users than a
bicycle. A panicked, rearing horse can easily kill someone.

So can a fast-moving bicycle. A bike going downhill fast is MUCH more
dangerous than a horse. What do you think CAUSES panic in horses? Only
bikes coming too fast around blind turns. Without bikes around, horses
aren't dangerous at all.

Totally false.

In article , Mike Vandeman says...

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:38:31 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:20 am, Siskuwihane wrote:
Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

I find the ankle twisting hoof prints to be more of a pain than the
droppings, myself.

Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

In addition, the horse is much more dangerous to other users than a
bicycle. A panicked, rearing horse can easily kill someone.

So can a fast-moving bicycle. A bike going downhill fast is MUCH more
dangerous than a horse. What do you think CAUSES panic in horses? Only
bikes coming too fast around blind turns. Without bikes around, horses
aren't dangerous at all.

I see we can add horses to the list of things you know next to nothing about.

Just last week I spent a couple hours helping chase down one of the neighbor's
horses that had thrown her after having been spooked by a flock of quail that
took off from the brush in front of them. Fortunately, no one was hurt; and the
only damage was to her son's bike, the front wheel of which was rather mangled
when the stampeding horse stepped on it.

Bob

I am working on creating horse habitat that is off-limits to quail
("un-bird-ened habitat"). Want to help?

Please don't allow Mike next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:38:31 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:20 am, Siskuwihane wrote:
Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

I find the ankle twisting hoof prints to be more of a pain than the
droppings, myself.

Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

In addition, the horse is much more dangerous to other users than a
bicycle. A panicked, rearing horse can easily kill someone.

So can a fast-moving bicycle. A bike going downhill fast is MUCH more
dangerous than a horse. What do you think CAUSES panic in horses? Only
bikes coming too fast around blind turns. Without bikes around, horses
aren't dangerous at all.

Holy idiots Batman!!! You can't be serious, can you? You have no clue about
horses. You can add that to "Mike Vandeman's List of Things He Knows Nothing
About". Probably the most comprehensive list anywhere. Rivals all of the
infornation available on the internet. You keep digging yourself deeper and
deeper. However, you are quite entertaining!

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Per Tom Sherman:
Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

My experience is probably limited to a small subset of trail
surfaces, but where I ride hikers and bikers pack the trail -
making it hard and durable. Horses till the trail, seemingly
making it subject to erosion during rainfall; although I have yet
to see any real damage from either use.
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Tom Sherman:
Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

My experience is probably limited to a small subset of trail
surfaces, but where I ride hikers and bikers pack the trail -
making it hard and durable. Horses till the trail, seemingly
making it subject to erosion during rainfall; although I have yet
to see any real damage from either use.

Do the hikers and cyclists defecate on the trail?

Why are the equestrians not required to put diapers on their horses?
After all, most public parks require dog walkers to pick up and put
their dogs' feces in appropriate disposal container.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.