"Bicycles Should Not be Allowed on Footpaths"

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:43:32 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Tom Sherman:
Yes, both the above are correct - horses cause much more trail damage
than either hikers or cyclists.

My experience is probably limited to a small subset of trail
surfaces, but where I ride hikers and bikers pack the trail -
making it hard and durable. Horses till the trail, seemingly
making it subject to erosion during rainfall; although I have yet
to see any real damage from either use.

Do the hikers and cyclists defecate on the trail?

Why are the equestrians not required to put diapers on their horses?
After all, most public parks require dog walkers to pick up and put
their dogs' feces in appropriate disposal container.

Then why don't you require ALL animals to wear diapers? Including
insects. Idiot.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:41:00 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

Stormin Mormon aka Christopher A. Young wrote:
They learn from people who drive SUV and throw cigarette butts out the
window?

Maybe from TOP POSTERS?

Leave it to Tom Sherman to bring the discussion down to the absolute
lowest possible level.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Siskuwihane wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:59 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:25:35 -0500, Tom Sherman





wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote:
On Jul 18, 11:23 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
...
But you want to deny them that right when they want to use a bicycle.
Disabled people can't use bikes, because you have to be able to walk
hime, in case you get a flat.
Another Michael J. Vandeman LIE.
Spare tubes, patches, pumps. All are carried by most cyclists. Stop
lying to make a point, it makes you lose what little credibility you
may have had.
Indeed, there are quite a few paraplegic hand cyclists out there who
could negotiate most hiking type trails with an appropriate tire choice.
BS. It is VERY EASY to crash and make the bike unrideable. Then they
would be stranded. Disabled people can't mountain bike. But you
already knew that. You just can't ever admit losing.


You've been on the losing end of this thread since its inception.

Mikey is just projecting his inability to ride a mountain bike properly
onto others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxqwD...eature=related

Cool off-road handcycle and excellent riding. That descent would be
tough on a FS MTB.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

Per Tom Sherman:
Why are the equestrians not required to put diapers on their horses?
After all, most public parks require dog walkers to pick up and put
their dogs' feces in appropriate disposal container.

Dunno for the world at large, but to me there's no comparison
between herbivore poo and carnivore poo.

The incremental offensiveness is a quantum leap... not just a
factor of 5 or 10.....
--
PeteCresswell

On Jul 19, 8:26*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:58:56 -0700 (PDT), bluezfolk



wrote:
On Jul 17, 7:41 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:28 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:35 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
From: [a Marin County resident]
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: Mt.bikes on trails

I have lived in Marin County for 50 years, seeing firsthand the rise
of, and impact from, mountain bicycling. *I am an equestrian and
hiker.

Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

It's better than using motor vehicles or mountain bikes. For people
with disabilities, it may be their only access to wilderness.

Wrong.

NO animal should be used as a vehicle for a human, a point you seem to
be avoiding, that's not surprising considering your documented habit
of avoiding the TRUTH. *A horse doesn't ask to carry around a human,
dummy.

Wildlife doesn't want what is "better" for selfish people,

There isn't much that's more selfish than working in the airline
industry. Or denying people with disabilities the right to visit the
wilderness they pay for.

*they want

what's BEST for them and that means not having their lives interupted
or habitat destroyed by *people who have to bring huge animals into
their environment for their own pleasure.

Horses are domesticated animals, not wildlife.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

So I guess what you are hinting at is that its alright to abuse
domesticated animals, but not alright to abuse wildlife.

I didn't say that. YOU did.

* Perhaps

since thy're not native to North America they should be sent back to
where they came from.

Horses are native to North America. Ther evolved here.

Some horse-like species were native to North America until they became
extinct. That would be about as close as mastodons or wooly mammoths
are to modern elephants.

Any horse today would trace its lineage from Europe or Asia.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:27:56 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
wrote:

On Jul 19, 10:59*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:25:35 -0500, Tom Sherman





wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote:
On Jul 18, 11:23 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
...
But you want to deny them that right when they want to use a bicycle.
Disabled people can't use bikes, because you have to be able to walk
hime, in case you get a flat.

Another Michael J. Vandeman LIE.

*Spare tubes, patches, pumps. All are carried by most cyclists. Stop
lying to make a point, it makes you lose what little credibility you
may have had.

Indeed, there are quite a few paraplegic hand cyclists out there who
could negotiate most hiking type trails with an appropriate tire choice.

BS. It is VERY EASY to crash and make the bike unrideable. Then they
would be stranded. Disabled people can't mountain bike. But you
already knew that. You just can't ever admit losing.


You've been on the losing end of this thread since its inception.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxqwD...eature=related

You can't even post correctly! "The URL contained a malformed video
ID."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
wrote:

On Jul 19, 10:57*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:27:16 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane





wrote:
On Jul 18, 11:23*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 17, 8:41*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:28*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:35*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
From: [a Marin County resident]
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: Mt.bikes on trails

I have lived in Marin County for 50 years, seeing firsthand the rise
of, and impact from, mountain bicycling. *I am an equestrian and
hiker. *

Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

It's better than using motor vehicles or mountain bikes. For people
with disabilities, it may be their only access to wilderness.

Wrong.

NO animal should be used as a vehicle for a human, a point you seem to
be avoiding, that's not surprising considering your documented habit
of avoiding the TRUTH. *A horse doesn't ask to carry around a human,
dummy.

Wildlife doesn't want what is "better" for selfish people,

There isn't much that's more selfish than working in the airline
industry. Or denying people with disabilities the right to visit the
wilderness they pay for.

But you want to deny them that right when they want to use a bicycle.

Disabled people can't use bikes, because you have to be able to walk
hime, in case you get a flat.

Another Michael J. Vandeman LIE.

Spare tubes, patches, pumps. All are carried by most cyclists. Stop
lying to make a point, it makes you lose what little credibility you
may have had.

BS. It is VERY EASY to crash and make your bike unrideable. Truly
disabled people can't mountain bike.

That's not what you wrote, why are you changing your story now?

It's because you were WRONG...again.



Not everyone can afford a horse so a bicycle would be a viable
alternative for them. So which is it Mike, deny disabled people only
if on a bike but not deny those on horses?

This is the advice Michael J. Vandeman gave a disabled woman who
wanted to use a bicycle...

"Get a wheelchair. And don't expect us to sacrifice wildlife, just so
you
can use their home as your personal physical therapist. Just because
you
hurt yourself in a car accident, that is no reason for the public to
sacrifice wildlife for you. Stop being such a bad role model for your
grandchildren! If you REALLY "loved nature" you wouldn't destroy it
for
your own pleasure."

hat is a good example of PRETENDING to be disabled, in order to
promote mountain biking. Mountain biking actually CREATES disablement
in many people.

Please show us proof that the person mentioned is pretending, I am
sure that someone making that sort of accusation has 100% proof,
otherwise that is LYING and libel.

As I said, no truly disabled person can mountain bike, so she must not
be truly disabled. Maybe she's hard of hearing....


You need to get an education so you stop making yourself look so
STUPID.

http://www.mtb-amputee.com/LegAmputees.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfL9wAH8Dyo

No legs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxqwD...eature=related

That's really bright: no way to get home, if you crash. Well, I never
said that mountain bikers are SMART!
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
wrote:

On Jul 19, 10:57*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:27:16 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane





wrote:
On Jul 18, 11:23*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 17, 8:41*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:28*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:35*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
From: [a Marin County resident]
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: Mt.bikes on trails

I have lived in Marin County for 50 years, seeing firsthand the rise
of, and impact from, mountain bicycling. *I am an equestrian and
hiker. *

Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

It's better than using motor vehicles or mountain bikes. For people
with disabilities, it may be their only access to wilderness.

Wrong.

NO animal should be used as a vehicle for a human, a point you seem to
be avoiding, that's not surprising considering your documented habit
of avoiding the TRUTH. *A horse doesn't ask to carry around a human,
dummy.

Wildlife doesn't want what is "better" for selfish people,

There isn't much that's more selfish than working in the airline
industry. Or denying people with disabilities the right to visit the
wilderness they pay for.

But you want to deny them that right when they want to use a bicycle.

Disabled people can't use bikes, because you have to be able to walk
hime, in case you get a flat.

Another Michael J. Vandeman LIE.

Spare tubes, patches, pumps. All are carried by most cyclists. Stop
lying to make a point, it makes you lose what little credibility you
may have had.

BS. It is VERY EASY to crash and make your bike unrideable. Truly
disabled people can't mountain bike.

That's not what you wrote, why are you changing your story now?

It's because you were WRONG...again.



Not everyone can afford a horse so a bicycle would be a viable
alternative for them. So which is it Mike, deny disabled people only
if on a bike but not deny those on horses?

This is the advice Michael J. Vandeman gave a disabled woman who
wanted to use a bicycle...

"Get a wheelchair. And don't expect us to sacrifice wildlife, just so
you
can use their home as your personal physical therapist. Just because
you
hurt yourself in a car accident, that is no reason for the public to
sacrifice wildlife for you. Stop being such a bad role model for your
grandchildren! If you REALLY "loved nature" you wouldn't destroy it
for
your own pleasure."

hat is a good example of PRETENDING to be disabled, in order to
promote mountain biking. Mountain biking actually CREATES disablement
in many people.

Please show us proof that the person mentioned is pretending, I am
sure that someone making that sort of accusation has 100% proof,
otherwise that is LYING and libel.

As I said, no truly disabled person can mountain bike, so she must not
be truly disabled. Maybe she's hard of hearing....


You need to get an education so you stop making yourself look so
STUPID.

http://www.mtb-amputee.com/LegAmputees.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfL9wAH8Dyo

No legs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxqwD...eature=related

No website: "The URL contained a malformed video ID."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:42:48 -0700 (PDT), y_p_w
wrote:

On Jul 19, 8:26*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:58:56 -0700 (PDT), bluezfolk



wrote:
On Jul 17, 7:41 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:07:25 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 17, 10:28 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:35 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
From: [a Marin County resident]
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: Mt.bikes on trails

I have lived in Marin County for 50 years, seeing firsthand the rise
of, and impact from, mountain bicycling. *I am an equestrian and
hiker.

Animals should not be used as vehicles, especially when people can
always WALK! I have yet to meet ANYONE who cleans up after their horse
deficates in the middle of a path or trail. Why are people so SELFISH,
making an animal carry them?

It's better than using motor vehicles or mountain bikes. For people
with disabilities, it may be their only access to wilderness.

Wrong.

NO animal should be used as a vehicle for a human, a point you seem to
be avoiding, that's not surprising considering your documented habit
of avoiding the TRUTH. *A horse doesn't ask to carry around a human,
dummy.

Wildlife doesn't want what is "better" for selfish people,

There isn't much that's more selfish than working in the airline
industry. Or denying people with disabilities the right to visit the
wilderness they pay for.

*they want

what's BEST for them and that means not having their lives interupted
or habitat destroyed by *people who have to bring huge animals into
their environment for their own pleasure.

Horses are domesticated animals, not wildlife.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

So I guess what you are hinting at is that its alright to abuse
domesticated animals, but not alright to abuse wildlife.

I didn't say that. YOU did.

* Perhaps

since thy're not native to North America they should be sent back to
where they came from.

Horses are native to North America. Ther evolved here.

Some horse-like species were native to North America until they became
extinct. That would be about as close as mastodons or wooly mammoths
are to modern elephants.

Any horse today would trace its lineage from Europe or Asia.

Thanks for demonstrating your utter ignorance. The HORSE evolved in
North America. I.e., ALL horses trace their lineage to North America.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Jul 19, 9:01*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:27:56 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane





wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:59*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:25:35 -0500, Tom Sherman

wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote:
On Jul 18, 11:23 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
...
But you want to deny them that right when they want to use a bicycle.
Disabled people can't use bikes, because you have to be able to walk
hime, in case you get a flat.

Another Michael J. Vandeman LIE.

*Spare tubes, patches, pumps. All are carried by most cyclists. Stop
lying to make a point, it makes you lose what little credibility you
may have had.

Indeed, there are quite a few paraplegic hand cyclists out there who
could negotiate most hiking type trails with an appropriate tire choice.

BS. It is VERY EASY to crash and make the bike unrideable. Then they
would be stranded. Disabled people can't mountain bike. But you
already knew that. You just can't ever admit losing.

You've been on the losing end of this thread since its inception.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxqwD...eature=related

You can't even post correctly! "The URL contained a malformed video
ID."


BS Michael J. Vandeman, it works just fine, must be your thrift store
computer.