Driver of HGV that killed Sebastian Lukomski found guilty & sentenced

"Buffalo Bill" wrote

[snip]

But more needs to be done, without question. To get access to
bigger
budgets we (the LBMA) have engaged with TfL, but not everything
that
seems like a good idea will work. Training for couriers, for
instance, is a good idea, but what will the take up be if it is
voluntary? Making it mandatory would mean regulation of the entire
industry, which would hugely expensive and would be resisted by the
owners.

What's the opinion among cycle couriers of the various books:
Franklin's "Cyclecraft", Forester's "Effective Cycling", Allen's
"Street Smarts", Glowacz's "Urban Bikers' Tricks and Tips", and so
forth?

When TfL started their anti lorry-left-hook campaign, I was shocked
by how many cycling officers seemed surprised by the news about the
hazard. I'm also rather cynical about the reaction of London's road
safety officers. After TfL started invading their territory, they
have developed a rival poster, and stuff, not as good as TfL's, in my
opinion, but have no budget for getting the material distributed.

Ignorance is very widespread, so you can't call people who don't know
about the hazard idiots. However, the laws of nature are like the
laws of Great Britain. Ignorance of the law does not exempt you from
punishment.

Regarding training, we can see what has happened at the Post Office.
People have been telling the Post Office for several years that the
Health and Safety Reg's meant that they should give posties training.
What has the PO's reaction been? No training at all, just helmet
compulsion.

If you have a black enough sense of humour, I suppose the whole thing
is pretty funny.

Jeremy Parker

"Buffalo Bill" wrote

[snip]

But more needs to be done, without question. To get access to
bigger
budgets we (the LBMA) have engaged with TfL, but not everything
that
seems like a good idea will work. Training for couriers, for
instance, is a good idea, but what will the take up be if it is
voluntary? Making it mandatory would mean regulation of the entire
industry, which would hugely expensive and would be resisted by the
owners.

What's the opinion among cycle couriers of the various books:
Franklin's "Cyclecraft", Forester's "Effective Cycling", Allen's
"Street Smarts", Glowacz's "Urban Bikers' Tricks and Tips", and so
forth?

When TfL started their anti lorry-left-hook campaign, I was shocked
by how many cycling officers seemed surprised by the news about the
hazard. I'm also rather cynical about the reaction of London's road
safety officers. After TfL started invading their territory, they
have developed a rival poster, and stuff, not as good as TfL's, in my
opinion, but have no budget for getting the material distributed.

Ignorance is very widespread, so you can't call people who don't know
about the hazard idiots. However, the laws of nature are like the
laws of Great Britain. Ignorance of the law does not exempt you from
punishment.

Regarding training, we can see what has happened at the Post Office.
People have been telling the Post Office for several years that the
Health and Safety Reg's meant that they should give posties training.
What has the PO's reaction been? No training at all, just helmet
compulsion.

If you have a black enough sense of humour, I suppose the whole thing
is pretty funny.

Jeremy Parker

"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message ...

Regarding training, we can see what has happened at the Post Office.
People have been telling the Post Office for several years that the
Health and Safety Reg's meant that they should give posties training.
What has the PO's reaction been? No training at all, just helmet
compulsion.

Yes, the precedents are not great. However, there has been some talk
of offering police cycle training to messengers. That would be
interesting and it would be worthwhile, not least from the point of
view of breaking down social barriers ('scoff laws' meeting
'copsicles') , but as I said above, the difficulty is in trying to get
a decent take up.

The post office example is mirrored by working practices at San
Francisco messenger companies, where helmets have been mandatory for
some years. This was entirely brought about by the insurance
companies that provide SF messengers companies with Workers Comp, the
US version of Statutory Sick Pay.

"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message ...

Regarding training, we can see what has happened at the Post Office.
People have been telling the Post Office for several years that the
Health and Safety Reg's meant that they should give posties training.
What has the PO's reaction been? No training at all, just helmet
compulsion.

Yes, the precedents are not great. However, there has been some talk
of offering police cycle training to messengers. That would be
interesting and it would be worthwhile, not least from the point of
view of breaking down social barriers ('scoff laws' meeting
'copsicles') , but as I said above, the difficulty is in trying to get
a decent take up.

The post office example is mirrored by working practices at San
Francisco messenger companies, where helmets have been mandatory for
some years. This was entirely brought about by the insurance
companies that provide SF messengers companies with Workers Comp, the
US version of Statutory Sick Pay.

"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message ...
What's the opinion among cycle couriers of the various books:
Franklin's "Cyclecraft", Forester's "Effective Cycling", Allen's
"Street Smarts", Glowacz's "Urban Bikers' Tricks and Tips", and so
forth?



I skimmed 'Effective Cycling'. As I read it once I had quit being a
messenger (4th quit after 14 years messengering) I found it
interesting but not useful. I would be surprised if more than 10% of
the messenger population in London had undergone ANY sort of training
(I'm including reading a book about cycling as well as formal
training) at all, even though some are now trainers working for Cycle
Training. Which is not to say that most messengers are bad cyclists,
although there are some very bad cyclists who are messengers.

Seb wasn't one of the crazy guys, and always kept a tidy, clean bike.

"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message ...
What's the opinion among cycle couriers of the various books:
Franklin's "Cyclecraft", Forester's "Effective Cycling", Allen's
"Street Smarts", Glowacz's "Urban Bikers' Tricks and Tips", and so
forth?



I skimmed 'Effective Cycling'. As I read it once I had quit being a
messenger (4th quit after 14 years messengering) I found it
interesting but not useful. I would be surprised if more than 10% of
the messenger population in London had undergone ANY sort of training
(I'm including reading a book about cycling as well as formal
training) at all, even though some are now trainers working for Cycle
Training. Which is not to say that most messengers are bad cyclists,
although there are some very bad cyclists who are messengers.

Seb wasn't one of the crazy guys, and always kept a tidy, clean bike.

Buffalo Bill wrote:

The post office example is mirrored by working practices at San
Francisco messenger companies, where helmets have been mandatory for
some years. This was entirely brought about by the insurance
companies that provide SF messengers companies with Workers Comp, the
US version of Statutory Sick Pay.

I'm not sure about workman's comp insurers, but in the vast majority
of cases where some dolt says something like "our insurance carrier
requires helmets for invitational rides" or "our insurance prohibits
bicycles in the drive-thru service lane", checking with the insurer
shows that the insurance company has no such requirement.

Mitch

Buffalo Bill wrote:

The post office example is mirrored by working practices at San
Francisco messenger companies, where helmets have been mandatory for
some years. This was entirely brought about by the insurance
companies that provide SF messengers companies with Workers Comp, the
US version of Statutory Sick Pay.

I'm not sure about workman's comp insurers, but in the vast majority
of cases where some dolt says something like "our insurance carrier
requires helmets for invitational rides" or "our insurance prohibits
bicycles in the drive-thru service lane", checking with the insurer
shows that the insurance company has no such requirement.

Mitch

"Gonzalez" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 03:13:24 -0000, "Clive George"
wrote:

No, you miss the point. This mistake has killed more than just Sebastian.
The lesson is apparently not clear enough. People need to be aware of
what
he did wrong. I want this lesson rammed down people's throats so they
don't
forget. I want them to realise how completely and utterly stupid he was
being - not 'he made a mistake', but 'he made a completely ****witted
mistake that you should be embarassed to even think about'.

I suspect "Buffalo Bill" is doing a lot more than you are to keep
cyclists informed of the dangers of undertaking a left turning lorry.

I may be mistaken, and if I am, please enlighten.

I suspect he is too, and this is a good thing. Doesn't detract from my
point.

(remember I live some hundred miles from the city, so I'm not exactly best
placed to do on the spot campaigning).

clive

"Gonzalez" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 03:13:24 -0000, "Clive George"
wrote:

No, you miss the point. This mistake has killed more than just Sebastian.
The lesson is apparently not clear enough. People need to be aware of
what
he did wrong. I want this lesson rammed down people's throats so they
don't
forget. I want them to realise how completely and utterly stupid he was
being - not 'he made a mistake', but 'he made a completely ****witted
mistake that you should be embarassed to even think about'.

I suspect "Buffalo Bill" is doing a lot more than you are to keep
cyclists informed of the dangers of undertaking a left turning lorry.

I may be mistaken, and if I am, please enlighten.

I suspect he is too, and this is a good thing. Doesn't detract from my
point.

(remember I live some hundred miles from the city, so I'm not exactly best
placed to do on the spot campaigning).

clive