How Do They Stay in Business?

Within the last 10 years, we have seen big boys like BikeE, Vision,
and Burley ultimately fail to stay afloat with recumbents. Within the
same period, we have seen the birth of Bacchetta, Volae, Barcroft, and
others as well as the endurance of Easy Racers and RANS. So how do
they do it? Are these companies making a profit after they pay their
bills? How do they get their products in the dealers store? RBR in
State College, PA (great store by the way) stocks no dual 26 LWB
RANS. Jays in Philly (also nice store) stocks only RANS but is also a
dealer for Easy Racers and Bacchetta. I just don't get it.

Jim

On Apr 24, 9:54 am, stratrider wrote:
Within the last 10 years, we have seen big boys like BikeE, Vision,
and Burley ultimately fail to stay afloat with recumbents.

From what I've read, each of them failed for different reasons and the
main "fault" wasn't really specific to being in the recumbent bike
businesses, though obviously if they were just yet another DF bike
maker, they'd probably do things differently.

Within the
same period, we have seen the birth of Bacchetta, Volae, Barcroft, and
others as well as the endurance of Easy Racers and RANS. So how do
they do it? Are these companies making a profit after they pay their
bills?

Don't forget Catrike and Wizwheelz. I think Catrike made some of
their financial results public last year, didn't they (and if I
recall, they were in the black)?

How do they get their products in the dealers store? RBR in
State College, PA (great store by the way) stocks no dual 26 LWB
RANS. Jays in Philly (also nice store) stocks only RANS but is also a
dealer for Easy Racers and Bacchetta. I just don't get it.

I guess those of us *currently* in the recumbent market have different
needs and expectations than those in the DF market.

We need more hands on experience with the products since there's so
much more variation, but we also realize we're not going to be able to
walk to the LBS, try everything and get what we want. This obviously
contributes to the market remaining smaller than it might otherwise be
since some folks who'd like a recumbent don't even know they exist.

When we shop around different places, it's not so much to find the
best price and/or service on basically the same product, it's to find
the product, period. We're used to doing it. It's not a good thing
to have to do it, but we've done it, and I suppose we find it
worthwhile to do it.

We probably also do more (and more substantive) research ahead of time
and have been used to buying blind sometimes, then selling if
dissatisfied. So while I might not be able to try a dual 26 LWB RANS
in the local shop, if I've ridden a 26/20 Stratus, and know that I
hated it (just personal preference for me), and if the consensus is
that the dual 26 RANS bikes are more of the same, but bigger, then I
know not to bother. If I love the 26/20 Stratus and want something
like it, but dual 26, then I'd feel pretty comfortable having the
local RANS dealer with just a Stratus and Rocket on the sales floor
order the dual 26 for me, without feeling like it's a risk for either
of us.

In the case of Volae and later Bacchetta and Easy Racers, they've made
buying "blind" less risky by offering pretty generous return policies
when buying from them direct at MSRP (though at least in the case of
Bacchetta, bypassing the bike shop is a last resort). If they do a
good job in getting the bike sized and setup properly to minimize the
likelihood of returns (and from what I've read, they do a great job
with it), then more of their product gets out into customers' hands
and stay there even if there's no local bike shop available to handle
it.

"stratrider" wrote in message
...
Within the last 10 years, we have seen big boys like BikeE, Vision,
and Burley ultimately fail to stay afloat with recumbents. Within the
same period, we have seen the birth of Bacchetta, Volae, Barcroft, and
others as well as the endurance of Easy Racers and RANS. So how do
they do it? Are these companies making a profit after they pay their
bills? How do they get their products in the dealers store? RBR in
State College, PA (great store by the way) stocks no dual 26 LWB
RANS. Jays in Philly (also nice store) stocks only RANS but is also a
dealer for Easy Racers and Bacchetta. I just don't get it.

Jim

It seems when they try to grow their company is when they fail. That is what
happened to Vision anyway. I think they need to stay small and sharply
focused. The recumbent market itself is very small and it will never grow
much. Overall, I see less cycling today than I did 30 years ago.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Apr 25, 10:57*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"stratrider" wrote in message

It seems when they try to grow their company is when they fail. That is what
happened to Vision anyway. I think they need to stay small and sharply
focused. The recumbent market itself is very small and it will never grow
much. Overall, I see less cycling today than I did 30 years ago.


Ed, I think you are absolutely right. I think BikeE also go too big,
too Corporate.

Jim

On Apr 24, 12:28*pm, Victor Kan wrote:

I guess those of us *currently* in the recumbent market have different
needs and expectations than those in the DF market.

We need more hands on experience.....

Yes we do, particularly given the "one size does NOT fit all
recumbent". Maybe Volae's direct market approach coupled with their
generous return policy is the way to sell recumbents. I guess the
key for the recumbent manufacturer is to understand how small the
recumbent market is, and stay small as a company. I think Ed Dolan is
right about companies like Vision getting bigger than the market could
support.

jim

"stratrider" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 12:28 pm, Victor Kan wrote:

I guess those of us *currently* in the recumbent market have different
needs and expectations than those in the DF market.

We need more hands on experience.....

Yes we do, particularly given the "one size does NOT fit all
recumbent". Maybe Volae's direct market approach coupled with their
generous return policy is the way to sell recumbents. I guess the
key for the recumbent manufacturer is to understand how small the
recumbent market is, and stay small as a company. I think Ed Dolan is
right about companies like Vision getting bigger than the market could
support.

jim

ATP Vision, IIRC, went under because of debt load to finance their
wheelchair business expansion, not because of a change in the recumbent
market. Volae is using a Vision seat on their bents and ATP made the early
Volaes before going tits up and Volae moving production to Waterford.
gotbent aka frvtr


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

stratrider aka Jim Reilly wrote:
On Apr 24, 12:28 pm, Victor Kan wrote:

I guess those of us *currently* in the recumbent market have different
needs and expectations than those in the DF market.

We need more hands on experience.....

Yes we do, particularly given the "one size does NOT fit all
recumbent". Maybe Volae's direct market approach coupled with their
generous return policy is the way to sell recumbents. I guess the
key for the recumbent manufacturer is to understand how small the
recumbent market is, and stay small as a company. I think Ed Dolan is
right about companies like Vision getting bigger than the market could
support.

ATP Vision signed up a lot of non-recumbent specialist dealers in the
late 1990's. That did not pan out, due in part to Vision lacking an
entry level bike and the resistance of many of the sales persons at the
LBS's to recumbents.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
stratrider aka Jim Reilly wrote:
On Apr 24, 12:28 pm, Victor Kan wrote:

I guess those of us *currently* in the recumbent market have different
needs and expectations than those in the DF market.

We need more hands on experience.....

Yes we do, particularly given the "one size does NOT fit all
recumbent". Maybe Volae's direct market approach coupled with their
generous return policy is the way to sell recumbents. I guess the
key for the recumbent manufacturer is to understand how small the
recumbent market is, and stay small as a company. I think Ed Dolan is
right about companies like Vision getting bigger than the market could
support.

ATP Vision signed up a lot of non-recumbent specialist dealers in the late
1990's. That did not pan out, due in part to Vision lacking an entry level
bike and the resistance of many of the sales persons at the LBS's to
recumbents.

Most of the early recumbent manufacturers sold their bikes mail order. That
is how I bought almost all of my many recumbents. Not every one wants to
take this kind of risk. I will admit sometimes you win and sometimes you
lose when you buy mail order. I think most recumbent cyclists do not mind
fiddling with their bikes a bit in order to make them fit and to make them
comfortable. I have never gotten a recumbent right out of the box where I
did not have to make some modifications.

There are some very good recumbent bike shops scattered about the country,
but you will most likely have to do some traveling to get to them. I have
been to the Hostel Shoppe in Wisconsin several times, but that is as far as
I am willing to go (only a few hundred miles).

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"stratrider" wrote
Within the last 10 years, we have seen big boys like BikeE, Vision,
and Burley ultimately fail to stay afloat with recumbents.

And don't forget the really big guys, Trek and Cannondale also tried
recumbents... In those cases, we might debate whether they really
understood the recumbent market or invested enough in marketing.

Within the same period, we have seen the birth of Bacchetta,
Volae, Barcroft, and others as well as the endurance of Easy
Racers and RANS.

Also, a number of European, Canadian, and Australian
manufacturers have been around "a long" time. And a few
Asian-based frame makers have gotten some attention
with recumbent offerings.

So how do they do it?
Are these companies making a profit after they pay their
bills? How do they get their products in the dealers store?

There are many business models that work. And probably many
more that don't work. %^) Given their history and continuing
operations, it's almost certain that RANS and Easy Racer are
likely profitable. Probably not "oil company" profitable,
but stable. There's a lot to be said for business models that
don't end up paying CEOs multi-million dollar bonuses! %^)

RBR in State College, PA (great store by the way) stocks no
dual 26 LWB RANS. Jays in Philly (also nice store) stocks
only RANS but is also a dealer for Easy Racers and Bacchetta.
I just don't get it.

In the US, the local bike shop survives perhaps only somewhat
better than the local hardware store or neighborhood supermarket.
For commodity bikes, they cannot compete on price with the
mass marketers.

LBS generally operate on pretty small capitalization. Higher
cost inventory that doesn't turn over reasonably quickly is an
investment that few can afford. For most bike shops, recumbents,
tandems, touring bikes, all fit that description. Note: in DFW, it's
easier to find several recumbent bike models in stock than any
upright touring bikes!

Many LBS owners/employees are cycling enthusiast, racers,
MTB'ers, used-to-be's, wanna-be's, club riders, etc... They
stock and sell best what they know and love. Few of them
know and love recumbents. It's a tough market for recumbents
to increase availability, from many perspectives.

But recumbents are a market niche, and not a fad. There's
money, if not millionaires to be made selling them.

Jon

Jon Meinecke wrote:
"stratrider" wrote
Within the last 10 years, we have seen big boys like BikeE, Vision,
and Burley ultimately fail to stay afloat with recumbents.

And don't forget the really big guys, Trek and Cannondale also tried
recumbents... In those cases, we might debate whether they really
understood the recumbent market or invested enough in marketing.

It is clear that the R200 did not have support inside Trek, since the
"champion" of the bike died in an automobile accident shortly before the
bike's introduction.

Both the Trek and Cannondale recumbents were overpriced compared to the
competition. Trek and Cannondale may have believed that their
reputations might allow for higher pricing, but that was a non-starter
to the already converted recumbent rider. Furthermore, neither bike was
something the upright roadie looking for a more comfortable ride would
be interested in.

If Cannondale or Trek had a 20-pound high racer for $2500 US, they could
take a large share of the performance oriented recumbent market.

[...]
In the US, the local bike shop survives perhaps only somewhat
better than the local hardware store or neighborhood supermarket.
For commodity bikes, they cannot compete on price with the
mass marketers.

LBS generally operate on pretty small capitalization. Higher
cost inventory that doesn't turn over reasonably quickly is an
investment that few can afford. For most bike shops, recumbents,
tandems, touring bikes, all fit that description. Note: in DFW, it's
easier to find several recumbent bike models in stock than any
upright touring bikes!

Many LBS owners/employees are cycling enthusiast, racers,
MTB'ers, used-to-be's, wanna-be's, club riders, etc... They
stock and sell best what they know and love. Few of them
know and love recumbents. It's a tough market for recumbents
to increase availability, from many perspectives.

The experience of the past decade indicates that a LBS should either be
a recumbent specialist with a wide range of product or stick to
uprights. Selling one line of recumbents with one or two bikes on
display will NOT be successful (another reason Trek and Cannondale
failed in most cases). The one Trek dealer [1] successful at selling
R200's was Wheel & Sprocket, which was already a recumbent specialist
dealer at their Hales Corners location.

But recumbents are a market niche, and not a fad. There's
money, if not millionaires to be made selling them.

[1] Dave Doty at Valley Bikes blowing out the leftover R200's at $600 is
another matter altogether.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful