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#21
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Physics for marketing professionals
AE6KS a Jobstian ? cable attached to male threaded stud with attached nipple. Screw in nipple/tighten jamb nut.
yawl read thru this ? http://goo.gl/Dy1jO5 ? uh...I haven't. ugh. however, seems that tho the wheel structure would exist, the structure exists as a TENSILE STRUCTURE not as a METAL STRUT structure. Or...PILLAR STRUCTURE ? is nit fixed....the structure tensiles/tensions. flexible laterally the Kevlar road repair spoke is a road repair spoke..singular spoke...not a complete wheel of Kevlar spokes Off course ido not know why JB would insist that his spokes last forever. Maybe ? maybe he's pulling our leg ? JB has TdF spokes ? x-rayed. magnafluxed ? I say he's lying. YOU'RE LYING JOBST |
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#22
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Physics for marketing professionals
On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
AE6KS a Jobstian ? cable attached to male threaded stud with attached nipple. Screw in nipple/tighten jamb nut. yawl read thru this ? http://goo.gl/Dy1jO5 ? uh...I haven't. ugh. however, seems that tho the wheel structure would exist, the structure exists as a TENSILE STRUCTURE not as a METAL STRUT structure. Or...PILLAR STRUCTURE ? is nit fixed....the structure tensiles/tensions. flexible laterally the Kevlar road repair spoke is a road repair spoke..singular spoke...not a complete wheel of Kevlar spokes Off course ido not know why JB would insist that his spokes last forever. Maybe ? maybe he's pulling our leg ? JB has TdF spokes ? x-rayed. magnafluxed ? I say he's lying. YOU'RE LYING JOBST FRANK BERTO WUDNUT LIE ABT HIS SPOKES |
#23
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Physics for marketing professionals
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Mike A Schwab
wrote: On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 6:25:38 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:29:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 3/27/2015 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote: http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension bridges use steel cable :-) No particular reason aside from cost, weight and convenience. Since Kevlar-Aramid spokes work just fine, a steel cable is a logical extension. http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html I've ridden a rear wheel with two of those for a few years now (can't change spokes otherwise in that wheel). There's prior art, a Dutch steel cable replacement spoke named Simson from Mijdrect Holland NL. I have not used one. Aren't there some sort of cable spokes sold for "on the road" repairs of a broken drive side spoke? I have seen them described on the Web although never saw one for sale in the local shops. -- Cheers, John B. http://www.amazon.com/FiberFix-Emerg.../dp/B001GSMQZC Exactly, and I've never seen then for sale in a bicycle shop :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#24
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Physics for marketing professionals
On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 4:45:43 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/27/2015 6:33 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Friday, March 27, 2015 at 2:17:21 PM UTC-7, David Scheidt wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: :On 3/27/2015 4:00 PM, James wrote: : I'd love to read Jobst's review of these spokes. : :My first thought, too. Look at them stress risers. Yup, and then we would get to talk about the old days of crappy Alpine and Union spokes; how stress relieving cures all evils and how in ten trillion miles he hasn't broken a DT 15/16 Competition spoke -- and that no heavier spoke is needed (presumably ever). He would rail on "botique" wheels (which now dominate the market and are no longer botique -- any more than CF frames are botique.) Hmmm, what else? Probably something about the nipple design. He certainly wouldn't like the aluminum option. Jay, Jobst was an extremely sharp engineer. I learned a lot from him, as did a lot of other engineers. That's not to say that I agreed with all his views. But the nature and quality of his knowledge was such that I'd consider very carefully whatever he'd say about these spokes. I have -- because he said similar things about Mavic aluminum spokes, spoke gauges larger than 15/16 (to me, in fact) and aluminum nipples. He talked about stress relieving A LOT -- and the fact that after the introduction of DT spokes, he had very few spoke failures (if any). I strongly suspect he would see these spokes as unnecessary and a marketing gimmick. I'm not denigrating his engineering skills; I'm just echoing his common themes. -- Jay Beattie. |
#25
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Physics for marketing professionals
Jay ...Jobst talk of running down pedestrians, other cyclists, buses and taxi's on his bicycle ?
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#26
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Physics for marketing professionals
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:34:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 06:32:36 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote: http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension bridges use steel cable :-) Because the cable will rotate at the nipple when tensioned, which will either increase or decrease the tension depending on which direction the wire rope is spun. You could glue it in place where the wire rope meets the nippel, but then it will rotate the nipple at the rim. Designing the nipple to interface with the wire rope will also be a challenge. The lack of laminar flow over the rather rough wire rope surface, as compared to a smooth spoke, will add to the wind resistance. Yews, of course. But that is the reason that they manufacture non-rotating cable. http://pythonrope.com/wireropes/wr_techinfo_7.shtml Very commonly used for the "whip line", or "fast line" as it is sometimes called, on cranes. But the secret would be to use kevlar which as it is many times stronger then metal spokes, can be made much smaller in diameter and turbulence aside frontal area is directly related to drag. Ok, my turn. How about a 360 spoke wheel, where the spokes are made from nylon or Kevlar fishing line? The 90% lower tension per spoke would allow for the use of very thin string or line. Building such a wheel might seem difficult, but with a lacing and tensioning fixture similar those used for tennis rackets, I think it should be possible. Balancing the string tension could be done with a guitar string tuner. Using kevlar and suitable grommets one could lace a wheel with a single continuous length, with, perhaps, one tiny "rigging screw" to tension it. One nice feature is that with 360 strings, breaking a few will probably not even be noticed. Should a string be wrapped around something (like the forks or seat stays), it's thin enough to break before it causes a crash. -- Cheers, John B. |
#27
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Physics for marketing professionals
John B.
2 in sequence or in a row as we ag folk say John B, would be engineer, alerts us to non twisting cable ! then goes on to unrecognized non circlular rims... Using kevlar and suitable grommets one could lace a wheel with a single continuous length, with, perhaps, one tiny "rigging screw" to tension it. LOWER THE BOATS ! |
#28
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Physics for marketing professionals
On 3/28/2015 6:25 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:29:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 3/27/2015 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote: http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension bridges use steel cable :-) No particular reason aside from cost, weight and convenience. Since Kevlar-Aramid spokes work just fine, a steel cable is a logical extension. http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html I've ridden a rear wheel with two of those for a few years now (can't change spokes otherwise in that wheel). There's prior art, a Dutch steel cable replacement spoke named Simson from Mijdrect Holland NL. I have not used one. Aren't there some sort of cable spokes sold for "on the road" repairs of a broken drive side spoke? I have seen them described on the Web although never saw one for sale in the local shops. Yes, there were, but I could not find a link. The USA kevlar version (link above) seems to be the standard now. Popular and works well. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#29
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Physics for marketing professionals
On 3/28/2015 7:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 06:32:36 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote: http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension bridges use steel cable :-) Because the cable will rotate at the nipple when tensioned, which will either increase or decrease the tension depending on which direction the wire rope is spun. You could glue it in place where the wire rope meets the nippel, but then it will rotate the nipple at the rim. Designing the nipple to interface with the wire rope will also be a challenge. The lack of laminar flow over the rather rough wire rope surface, as compared to a smooth spoke, will add to the wind resistance. Ok, my turn. How about a 360 spoke wheel, where the spokes are made from nylon or Kevlar fishing line? The 90% lower tension per spoke would allow for the use of very thin string or line. Building such a wheel might seem difficult, but with a lacing and tensioning fixture similar those used for tennis rackets, I think it should be possible. Balancing the string tension could be done with a guitar string tuner. One nice feature is that with 360 strings, breaking a few will probably not even be noticed. Should a string be wrapped around something (like the forks or seat stays), it's thin enough to break before it causes a crash. Prior art again- Sugino Tension Disc 240 Kevlar spokes and indeed it both worked well and weighed less than 32 spokes. http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=130406 There was also an MTB version marketed under the Tioga name. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#30
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Physics for marketing professionals
On 3/28/2015 11:43 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 17:13:50 -0700 (PDT), Mike A Schwab wrote: On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 6:25:38 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:29:28 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 3/27/2015 6:32 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:24 -0500, AMuzi wrote: http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/22/...spoke+desig n Why not just use steel cable for wheel spokes? After all Suspension bridges use steel cable :-) No particular reason aside from cost, weight and convenience. Since Kevlar-Aramid spokes work just fine, a steel cable is a logical extension. http://www.yellowjersey.org/fiberfix.html I've ridden a rear wheel with two of those for a few years now (can't change spokes otherwise in that wheel). There's prior art, a Dutch steel cable replacement spoke named Simson from Mijdrect Holland NL. I have not used one. Aren't there some sort of cable spokes sold for "on the road" repairs of a broken drive side spoke? I have seen them described on the Web although never saw one for sale in the local shops. -- Cheers, John B. http://www.amazon.com/FiberFix-Emerg.../dp/B001GSMQZC Exactly, and I've never seen then for sale in a bicycle shop :-) Stop in any time! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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