Holy shatz! Cop stops bicycle!

In article ich.edu,
"Daniel J. Stern" writes:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Tom Keats wrote:

They can ram through busy intersections against the light, causing
multiple collisions as drivers attempt to avoid hitting them.
Different venue, same effect.

I've heard this point raised in the course of discussion before, but
I've never seen nor heard of actual incidents where this has occurred.

'cause the cyclist, having caused mayhem, simply decides he's a
pedestrian, makes a 90-degree turn and cruises away from the scene. Did
anyone get his license plate? Oh that's right...he DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE
ONE!

There'd still be a bunch of drivers both directly involved and
simply looking on, in these alleged, cyclist-caused, multi-car
pile-ups.

So, where are they? Let's hear from these drivers (if they
exist.) Or better yet -- their insurance reps.

Incidentally, I've never seen a cyclist "ram" through a /busy/
intersection against the light. But then, I've never seen anyone
jump through between boxcars of a fast moving train, either.

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It is not overzealous. It has been taken to court. That is the way the law
reads.

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Bob

"John David Galt" wrote in message
...
Bob Newman wrote:
Too many to read every reply, I hope this wasn't touched on. We here in
Florida have had police crack downs in the past giving cyclists tickets
for
not stopping, as you say "cyclists are subject to the same traffic laws
as
anyone else". That is not quite true in this case, cyclists are
required to
do more! Simply stopping at a stop sign can still get you a ticket IF
you
fail to put one foot fully on the ground. Comments?

Sounds like the usual over-enforcement directed at auto drivers, where the
cop says you "didn't stop" if you didn't wait 5 seconds before proceeding.
The law needs to recognize that when your car rocks back on its springs,
you've stopped.

In article ,
"Daniel T." writes:

I saw something close. I was making a left turn (with the green light)
when a bicyclist ran the light just as I was turning. Needless to say
the bicyclist was going too fast for anyone to really react to his
presence. He ended up hitting an SUV (note the bicyclist hit the
vehicle, not the other way around.) The bike was totaled and the rider
found himself flat on his back. Amazingly, the bicyclist wasn't hurt, of
course the driver of the SUV wasn't hurt either, how could he be? Hell,
I didn't even see any scratches on the side of his vehicle...

Those things do happen, but that's nothing like the scenario
Mr. Stern describes, of drivers bashing their cars into each
other in a valiant effort to avoid hitting a red light-running
cyclist. I expect in the incident you describe, the SUV driver
didn't do much by way of collision avoidance manoeuvers; maybe
the driver didn't even know the cyclist was there until he hit
his SUV. But that's admittedly all speculation on my part.

I think a more plausible hypothetical situation would be where a
startled driver panics, hits the binders and gets rear-ended.
But that would be the fault of the driver behind him, doing the
rear-ending.

I'm not going to claim that what Mr. Stern says never happens, but I
expect that when something like that happens but its a car rather than a
bike that is "ramming" through a busy intersection against the light, a
hell of a lot more damage occurs.

True. I have seen some sickening aftermath of where (car driving)
street racers, and subjects in police pursuits, have tried
unsuccessfuly to run red lights. With stuff like that going on,
the authorities have far more important things to deal with than
going after law-flouting cyclists.

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In article ,
"Paul" wrote:

I still say he's just ****ed because he sees bikes doing what he can't
do in his car, but he isn't willing to ride a bike in order to have the
privileges that bikers have. Of course, that doesn't stop him from
wanting to take those privileges away from the bicyclists.

Since when do bicyclists have the privlege of disregarding traffic laws that
are there for the safety of everyone?

Well, if they didn't we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact is,
bicyclists don't have to obey the same traffic laws as cars, otherwise
they would be getting pulled over and fined.

"Paul" wrote:

"Daniel T." wrote in message
news
In article ch.edu,

I'm new to this car vs bicycle debate, yet is sounds very familliar to
the debate over in rec.boats; there it's motor-boat vs sailboat.
Different vehicles, but the same facts. How much property damage can a
bicycle do compaired to a car? Can DUI bicyclests ram through the wall
of the local McDonald's killing and injuring happy meal eaters?

A DUI bicyclist could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could cause a
car
operator to lose control of his vehicle and plow into a McDonalds.

And a DUI driver could pull many types of idiotic maneuvers that could
cause a bicyclest to lose control and plow into a McDonalds... Oops
actually that's not the case is it, the bicyclest *can't* plow into a
McDonalds.

Your ignoring the central fact; a bicyclist simply *cannot* do the kind
of damage that an auto driver can do. Because of this central fact,
there really isn't as much need to ensure that bicyclests are skilled
compared to auto drivers.

Daniel T. wrote:

The fact is,
bicyclists don't have to obey the same traffic laws as cars,

That's fiction, not fact.

otherwise
they would be getting pulled over and fined.

Which has nothing to do with it. Just because a law isn't enforced
doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist. Cyclists are supposed to
follow the rules of the road just like a driver does.

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Daniel T. wrote:

The fact is, bicyclists don't have to obey the same traffic laws as
cars

Sorry, that's just plain incorrect. Check your local laws.

otherwise they would be getting pulled over and fined.

Well, then, I guess marijuana must be legal, then, because I smelled/saw
someone smoking it at a party a few weeks ago, and he didn't get picked up
by the cops. I guess speeding must be legal, too, 'cause most people
disregard the speed limit on the freeways around here. Lack of enforcement
does NOT imply legality. To think otherwise is stunningly simpleminded.

-Stern

In article ,
Arif Khokar wrote:

Daniel T. wrote:

The fact is,
bicyclists don't have to obey the same traffic laws as cars,

That's fiction, not fact.

otherwise
they would be getting pulled over and fined.

Which has nothing to do with it. Just because a law isn't enforced
doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist. Cyclists are supposed to
follow the rules of the road just like a driver does.

There is a law in my city that says people are not allowed to shower
naked. Laws that are never enforced aren't laws.

In article ch.edu,
Daniel J. Stern wrote:
There's no law requiring
registration of bicycles or carrying an operator's license -- or, for that
matter, any form of identification at all -- while riding one. Should be,
but isn't. So what if the cop stops someone who hasn't got ID? What,
exactly, can the cop do?

Presumably the same thing the cop can do when arresting someone for
jaywalking or other illegal activity, and that person doesn't have ID.

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Daniel T. wrote:

There is a law in my city that says people are not allowed to shower
naked.

Cite?

Laws that are never enforced aren't laws.

They're still laws. Cyclists are road users and should obey all
applicable traffic laws. It makes it easier for all those involved
because any cyclist/motorist interaction will become as predictable as
any motorist/motorist action (violations of traffic law notwithstanding).

A cyclist obeying the law will *not* be the one who I end up hitting
because he appeared seemingly out of nowhere when he actually came off
the sidewalk to my right to make a left turn. The cyclist obeying the
law will be in the lane ahead of me taking a left turn like I do in a
car where I can see him.