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#21
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bike shedding most boring trend
"AMuzi" wrote in message news On 1/26/2018 2:21 PM, Ian Field wrote: "Ralph Barone" wrote in message news Ian Field wrote: "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message ... Here Is the BMC Teammachine SLR01 Disc [1] which is an example of what I have seen many times now in the "cycling press", and that is to have the frame in one (and only one) bright color, and then everything else in gray or most often black! Very ugly IMO. Black is the most boring and depressing color which is why kids are afraid of the dark and people wear black at funerals. Motorcycle accident statistics hint that a black motorcycle with rider in black leathers is less likely to get a SMIDSY. Cant remember having seen a black bicycle - so there probably isn't any data. Sure, if the leathers have "Hell's Angels" emblazoned across the back, otherwise I'm not so sure about that factoid. You've probably nailed it - but a motorcyclist can be adequately sinister without being a member of anything. Safety in numbers doesn't always work either - there are clips of motorcyclists out on a run getting rammed by some nutter in a SUV. or a group of bicyclists under a pickup: http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/kal...ists/235907309 or a rental box truck: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...icle-1.3602094 One of our customers, an old friend, was riding just in front of that mayhem, inches from death. The tourist he had just passed was killed. I suspect motorcyclists probably get more attempted or actual murder, but there's clips out there of cyclists being deliberately run down. Both get mostly general ****wittery on the part of drivers. |
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#22
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bike shedding most boring trend
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi wrote: One of our customers, an old friend, was riding just in front of that mayhem, inches from death. The tourist he had just passed was killed. Cycling sure seem more violent in the US. I don't know what the stats are. Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated. Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles. In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles. So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take you to ride 10 million miles? Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night, using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent riders should have much lower risks. We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!) The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying commercial airlines. In France, I hear that in the process of getting a driver license a not insignificant part is spent on how to respond to cyclists sharing the road. There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving education in America. I'm part of one such group. But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy - in fact, stupidly easy. But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles -- Cheers, John B. |
#23
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bike shedding most boring trend
On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi wrote: One of our customers, an old friend, was riding just in front of that mayhem, inches from death. The tourist he had just passed was killed. Cycling sure seem more violent in the US. I don't know what the stats are. Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated. Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles. In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles. So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take you to ride 10 million miles? Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night, using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent riders should have much lower risks. We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!) The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying commercial airlines. In France, I hear that in the process of getting a driver license a not insignificant part is spent on how to respond to cyclists sharing the road. There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving education in America. I'm part of one such group. But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy - in fact, stupidly easy. But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and account for 16 percent of crash fatalities." Watch your step! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#24
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bike shedding most boring trend
Frank Krygowski wrote:
But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy - in fact, stupidly easy. It is "easy" here as well but it takes a long time and if you don't have parents paying it is very, very expensive. A burger flipper with no support from his/her parent cannot do it. If you don't have respect for burger flippers, I wonder if a nurse can do it? I think not, or if. that would require a very long-time and determined effort. Some young people can pull it off but many cannot and as many wouldn't even dare try in that economic situation. As for acid, if you think I'm posing, well I'll take it, but nevertheless it is true: The events of the first LSD trip, now known as “Bicycle Day”, after the bicycle ride home, proved to Hofmann that he had indeed made a significant discovery: a psychoactive substance with ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...d_diethylamide -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#25
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bike shedding most boring trend
This reminds me of a story from Edgar Snow - he
was an American writer, and there is no shame not having read his books on the Chinese Revolution, and more, even tho they are excellent no doubt. Anyway Snow once heard from Nehru that he, Snow, wasn't ever going to understand either China or India unless he learned how to stand on his head. Snow contemplated this metaphor until he met Nehru face to face and they got themselves into some tricky political matter. Suddenly Nehru excused himself and walked to a nearby wall. There, he flipped himself feet up, and blood started to fill his head. Only then did Snow understand it wasn't a metaphor at all. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#26
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bike shedding most boring trend
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:21:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote: On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi wrote: One of our customers, an old friend, was riding just in front of that mayhem, inches from death. The tourist he had just passed was killed. Cycling sure seem more violent in the US. I don't know what the stats are. Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated. Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles. In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles. So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take you to ride 10 million miles? Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night, using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent riders should have much lower risks. We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!) The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying commercial airlines. In France, I hear that in the process of getting a driver license a not insignificant part is spent on how to respond to cyclists sharing the road. There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving education in America. I'm part of one such group. But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy - in fact, stupidly easy. But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and account for 16 percent of crash fatalities." Watch your step! In reality I suspect that the only politically acceptable of reducing bicycle - auto crashes would be some sort of financial solution, similar to the Thai system that "The big guy is wrong", which in essence is a general traffic rule that subject to contrary evidence the largest vehicle in the crash is deemed to be in the wrong. The actual law is far more complex but in practice of one were to hit a bicycle and kill the rider the auto would be responsible for all costs - bicycle replacement or repair, all medical costs including hospitalization and rehabilitation costs, etc., in the event of death all funeral costs and so on. A note here, A sister in law who was a collage level teacher had funeral costs of 200,000 baht.... in an economy where minimum wages are 30 baht a day. Failure to agree with this would result in a criminal charge (causing death by auto, or some such title) that WILL result in a prison sentence - from reading the news apparently 3 - 5 years per death. In U.S. terms something like an increase in driver's license fees or maybe, as I believe that the U.S. has mandatory insurance, an increase in insurance fees. Initially this seems a bit unfair but the effect is to make larger vehicles reluctant to hit a smaller one which does have a rather dramatic effect of traffic. A month or so I, solely through stupidity, I ran a stop light on a 4 lane intersection and found myself whizzing across four lanes of very active traffic at about 30 kph. Cars were screeching their brakes to avoid me. -- Cheers, John B. |
#27
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bike shedding most boring trend
On 1/28/2018 12:03 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:21:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote: On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi wrote: One of our customers, an old friend, was riding just in front of that mayhem, inches from death. The tourist he had just passed was killed. Cycling sure seem more violent in the US. I don't know what the stats are. Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated. Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles. In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles. So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take you to ride 10 million miles? Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night, using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent riders should have much lower risks. We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!) The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying commercial airlines. In France, I hear that in the process of getting a driver license a not insignificant part is spent on how to respond to cyclists sharing the road. There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving education in America. I'm part of one such group. But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy - in fact, stupidly easy. But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and account for 16 percent of crash fatalities." Watch your step! In reality I suspect that the only politically acceptable of reducing bicycle - auto crashes would be some sort of financial solution, similar to the Thai system that "The big guy is wrong", which in essence is a general traffic rule that subject to contrary evidence the largest vehicle in the crash is deemed to be in the wrong. The actual law is far more complex but in practice of one were to hit a bicycle and kill the rider the auto would be responsible for all costs - bicycle replacement or repair, all medical costs including hospitalization and rehabilitation costs, etc., in the event of death all funeral costs and so on. A note here, A sister in law who was a collage level teacher had funeral costs of 200,000 baht.... in an economy where minimum wages are 30 baht a day. Failure to agree with this would result in a criminal charge (causing death by auto, or some such title) that WILL result in a prison sentence - from reading the news apparently 3 - 5 years per death. In U.S. terms something like an increase in driver's license fees or maybe, as I believe that the U.S. has mandatory insurance, an increase in insurance fees. Initially this seems a bit unfair but the effect is to make larger vehicles reluctant to hit a smaller one which does have a rather dramatic effect of traffic. A month or so I, solely through stupidity, I ran a stop light on a 4 lane intersection and found myself whizzing across four lanes of very active traffic at about 30 kph. Cars were screeching their brakes to avoid me. And I agree with the concept. As I've mentioned before, we were staying with (new) friends in Zurich, and they took us on a walking tour of the city. At that time, they had just passed a "strict liability" law like you describe. Our friends told us it absolutely transformed the experience of walking (and IIRC bicycling) around the city. Isn't one of our newer posters from there? Any comment? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#28
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bike shedding most boring trend
Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote: Having everything black, e.g. equipment (very common for computer stuff for example) is also detrimental as 1) you get depressed just by looking at it, and 2) it is (more) difficult to find the thing you'd like if everything is the same color. Sounds like a personal opinion. Well, colors are emotional. Even as a boy I loved colors. Isn't that pretty uncommon? Try take LSD and ride your bike thru a post-industrial area at night. That will be colorful. Actually one can have almost the same effect, at least with respect to the lights, with this method. Take a hot shower with the lights off for ~10m. Then take a cold shower (with the controls to the max cold) for as long as you endure. By swallowing water it will be even colder. Then ride the bike after sunset. Now the lights will look really cool, like oily and flashy. And this effect lasts for hours! (It'll be left as an exercise to figure out how I discovered this method.) Colors are a matter of taste yes but generally speaking there are some general truths. Black makes things look smaller and is depressing, associated with death, fear, and so on. White isn't anything really but makes things look bigger. Red is associated with danger (from fire, and blood perhaps as well). Green is soothing. The human eye is best suited to distinguish differences, nuances, in green - maybe from evolution, looking for food in the jungle? So it makes sense to have many shades of green. Functionally speaking, and many have an eye for this which is also connected to the perception of beauty, I think the direction should be not to have different, adjacent things in the exact same color. This looks wierd. This is why the Swiss bike in the OP looks bad to me. It looks like it is made out of two parts, like a toy or something artificial, not the real thing. What depresses me about computer equipment is working when it's a nice riding day. Not the color. With computers the background should be black to reduce the light that enters your eyes for decoding. Everything else should be colorized according to function to reduce "reading" and increase "seeing": http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/elisp.png Right over your head... -- duane |
#29
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bike shedding most boring trend
On 28-01-18 06:35, Frank Krygowski wrote:
And I agree with the concept. As I've mentioned before, we were staying with (new) friends in Zurich, and they took us on a walking tour of the city. At that time, they had just passed a "strict liability" law like you describe. Our friends told us it absolutely transformed the experience of walking (and IIRC bicycling) around the city. Isn't one of our newer posters from there? Any comment? That could be me... I've been reading the local newspaper (Tages Anzeiger) everyday for decades, and I don't remember ever seeing something like this. Maybe it was a long time ago? In any event, I generally feel safe riding in Zurich. The city has helped, for example by sometimes reserving the sidewalk on one side of a street just for bicycles, by allowing bicycles on small roads where otherwise non-resident traffic is forbidden, and by establishing sensible bike lanes (wide enough to avoid the door zone). Besides this, over the years I've worked out my own ways to get through the city, mostly avoiding heavy traffic. I also signal for turns, stop for red lights, and generally try to behave in a predictable way. Another factor is that there are enough people on bicycles here that drivers are used to seeing them. Years ago I went for a ride while visiting Cincinnati, and had the impression that a lot of drivers had never encountered a bicycle before. That seemed scary. Ned |
#30
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bike shedding most boring trend
On 1/26/2018 11:54 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote: Having everything black, e.g. equipment (very common for computer stuff for example) is also detrimental as 1) you get depressed just by looking at it, and 2) it is (more) difficult to find the thing you'd like if everything is the same color. Sounds like a personal opinion. Well, colors are emotional. Even as a boy I loved colors. Isn't that pretty uncommon? Try take LSD and ride your bike thru a post-industrial area at night. That will be colorful. Actually one can have almost the same effect, at least with respect to the lights, with this method. Take a hot shower with the lights off for ~10m. Then take a cold shower (with the controls to the max cold) for as long as you endure. By swallowing water it will be even colder. Then ride the bike after sunset. Now the lights will look really cool, like oily and flashy. And this effect lasts for hours! (It'll be left as an exercise to figure out how I discovered this method.) Colors are a matter of taste yes but generally speaking there are some general truths. Black makes things look smaller and is depressing, associated with death, fear, and so on. White isn't anything really but makes things look bigger. Red is associated with danger (from fire, and blood perhaps as well). Green is soothing. The human eye is best suited to distinguish differences, nuances, in green - maybe from evolution, looking for food in the jungle? So it makes sense to have many shades of green. Functionally speaking, and many have an eye for this which is also connected to the perception of beauty, I think the direction should be not to have different, adjacent things in the exact same color. This looks wierd. This is why the Swiss bike in the OP looks bad to me. It looks like it is made out of two parts, like a toy or something artificial, not the real thing. What depresses me about computer equipment is working when it's a nice riding day. Not the color. With computers the background should be black to reduce the light that enters your eyes for decoding. Everything else should be colorized according to function to reduce "reading" and increase "seeing": http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/elisp.png What about a bright blue/yellow Svensk flag colored bicycle? Oughta be safe right? http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3782185 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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