Average speed on really old road bike vs. new

If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he expect if
he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike) with aero
bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.

Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:53:03 GMT,
t,
"TPL" wrote:

If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he expect if
he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike) with aero
bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.

There's probably lots of things you could do that would improve your
aerodynamic efficiency more than having a special TT bike.

http://www.damonrinard.com/aero/aerodynamics.htm

The P3 doesn't make sense unless you're riding time trials or
triathlons at pro-levels and seeking every last advantage.

They look cool but I wouldn't want one as a replacement for an '89
Schwinn.

Guesses to three decimal places.
http://www.analyticcycling.com/
--
zk

Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:59:36 GMT,
, "TPL"
wrote:

Guesses to three decimal places.
http://www.analyticcycling.com/

Thanks for the comments and links.

I'm not looking to buy a new bike. A friend has a 2003 Cervelo P3 and I was
just wondering how much difference there would be riding his bike versus my
old bike. I would guess with toe clips, aero bars, and the superior quality
of the bike it would result in over 5 mph higher average speed? Sound
reasonable?

Sounds like a lot. From the site above, if I'm reading it right, you
might gain 100 seconds on a 10K TT at 20mph by using narrow aero bars
in a low position instead of just riding on the drops. You can gain
more by zipping up your jersey. Toe clips won't benefit your
aerodynamic efficiency but they may increase your pedalling
efficiency.

No doubt about it, his bike will _feel_ faster but that's more to do
with geometry and tires.
--
zk

"TPL" wrote in message
k.net...
If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he expect
if
he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike) with
aero
bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.

The bike isn't going to make much difference. There is a few pounds
difference in weight (which is essentially negligible), but the only real
differences will be the clips and straps (more efficient) and the aerobars
(more aerodynamic when being used). Both of the last two can be added to
your World Sport, the former much more cheaply than the latter, and the
differences between the two bikes will be even smaller. How much? For the
same rider, probably not more than 1 or 2 mph without the additions. Even
less with the additions.

-Buck

If you can ride your frilend bike, try it. My guess is that you might gain one
to one and one half miles an hour. Let us know what happens.

Ernie

TPL wrote:

"Zoot Katz" wrote in message
...
Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:53:03 GMT,
t,
"TPL" wrote:

If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he expect
if
he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike) with
aero
bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.

There's probably lots of things you could do that would improve your
aerodynamic efficiency more than having a special TT bike.

http://www.damonrinard.com/aero/aerodynamics.htm

The P3 doesn't make sense unless you're riding time trials or
triathlons at pro-levels and seeking every last advantage.

They look cool but I wouldn't want one as a replacement for an '89
Schwinn.

Guesses to three decimal places.
http://www.analyticcycling.com/
--
zk

Thanks for the comments and links.

I'm not looking to buy a new bike. A friend has a 2003 Cervelo P3 and I was
just wondering how much difference there would be riding his bike versus my
old bike. I would guess with toe clips, aero bars, and the superior quality
of the bike it would result in over 5 mph higher average speed? Sound
reasonable?

For what it's worth, I have an older road bike (1980's Nishiki) and a newer
Gary Fisher hybrid. On the same course (a mix of flats and hills), the
difference in average speed for me is about 10%-15%. I average 17-19 on the
hybrid and 20-22 on the road bike. Based on that, I suspect an improvement
as large as 5 mph in switching to a more modern road bike is pretty
unlikely.

Mark


"TPL" wrote in message
k.net...
If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he expect
if
he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike) with
aero
bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.

TPL wrote:

I'm not looking to buy a new bike. A friend has a 2003 Cervelo P3 and I was
just wondering how much difference there would be riding his bike versus my
old bike. I would guess with toe clips, aero bars, and the superior quality
of the bike it would result in over 5 mph higher average speed? Sound
reasonable?

Toe clips might make a tiny difference, but it probably depends a lot on
your pedaling style. Aerobars would make a significant difference, if
we're talking about the bars that place the rider's arms in front of the
torso, but that alone is more like 2 mph. Other than that, tyres could
make a _small_ difference, but you can always put similar
high-performance tyres on your old bike.

5 mph sounds way too much in any case. Such differences generally
require drastic changes in the rider's aerodynamics, so it would be only
possible if the Cervélo had a _much_ more aerodynamic riding position,
and that is only useful is the rider can actually adapt to it. The fact
that the Cervélo is of "superior" quality doesn't necessarily make it
much faster.

For what it's worth, I changed from a suspensionless mountain bike to a
modern road bike a year ago. The MTB had slick tyres and the handle bar
a few inches below the seat, so it was a fairly fast setup for road
riding. The difference in average speed was more like 1 mph. In
general, there's a lot of truth to the cliché that "it's not about the
bike".

-as

"TPL" wrote:

If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he
expect
if he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike)
with
aero bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.


Zoot Kats replied:
There's probably lots of things you could do that would improve your
aerodynamic efficiency more than having a special TT bike....


Toe clips would definitely help and if you don't have them, drop bars (means
new brakes, new shifters, alas), also help a lot. You may try to lower the
bars to increase performance, but there are limits, especially for an older
folk. Aerobars will help, especially with a front wind, but again, you need
flexibility.

Tires are a great help. Back in 1980, "high pressure" meant 50-60 psi,
whereas it now means 100 psi. If you still have the original tires and if
they are relatively low pressure, it might pay to replace tires. Likewise,
narrower tires increase the speed, but at the expense of comfort. Another
point: make sure you use slick (aka smooth) tires, not ones with significant
tread, knobs and the like. These are good in mud or snow, but they rob you
of speed.

Finally, make sure that your bike is well tuned. Freshly greased wheels roll
much better than wheels that still run on 1989 grease... Besides, if your
grease is that old, the bearings are dry and will wear off faster...

Regards,

Michel

If a rider averages 20 mph for 10 miles on a 1989 Schwinn World Sport
without aero bars or toe clips, about what average speed could he
expect
if
he was to ride a 2003 Cervelo P3 (or some other top-of-line bike) with
aero
bars and toe clips? Thanks for any guesses.


I have been riding the same course on both my "top of the line" Mongoose
XR150 weighing in at about 45 pounds with everything including a kitchen
sink mounted on it and my 21 lb Trek 2300 (actually riding the course lot
MORE on the Trek...go figure.) In any case, I average 5 mph more on the
Trek. I usually run about the same average heart rate on either bike.

Of course, the 2300 doesn't handle as well on the trails ;-)

--
Tom S

I found an unused Schwinn World Sport for $15. at a garage sale.
The tires, with Schwinn brand markings, still had the little rubber
nubbins from the molding process, sticking out from the treads. It rode
very nicely, but I spent $115. for new alloy hubs and rims, spokes and
better tires, and discarded the stock steel rolling gear. This made it
faster and I don't think I'd get more than a tiny amount of extra speed
from an expensive new bike that had wheels comparable to what I
installed on this one. I liked the feel and fit of this bike and it
hauled my large size for years without trouble.

Steve McDonald