Negotiating With Insurance Company

Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.

I sustained minor injuries consisting of contusions and abrasions to
my knee, leg, hip, shoulder, and face as well as a sprained wrist.
None of these injuries even though painful and inconveniencing were
significant enough to require medical treatment.

The bike sustained mostly cosmetic damage. Both shifters were
scratched and gouged as were the right side pedal and the rear
deraileur. Every piece of clothing or equipment that I was wearing was
damaged by my slide down the asphalt.

The dog owner has liability insurance. I have talked to a couple of
attorneys and they didn't seem too interested in persuing this case
because my injuries weren't more severe and there wasn't more
potential $ involved. They basically recommended that I try to settle
with the insurance company myself.

So have any of you been in this kind of situation before? Can anyone
offer pointers on how to best deal with the insurance company?

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I think that I am also entitled to some award for pain and suffering.
I have some real nasty looking pictures to prove it. Any idea how to
put a value on this? Is the insurance company likely going to try to
wiggle out of this altogether?

Thanks for any insight that you can provide.

Steve

Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.

I sustained minor injuries consisting of contusions and abrasions to
my knee, leg, hip, shoulder, and face as well as a sprained wrist.
None of these injuries even though painful and inconveniencing were
significant enough to require medical treatment.

The bike sustained mostly cosmetic damage. Both shifters were
scratched and gouged as were the right side pedal and the rear
deraileur. Every piece of clothing or equipment that I was wearing was
damaged by my slide down the asphalt.

The dog owner has liability insurance. I have talked to a couple of
attorneys and they didn't seem too interested in persuing this case
because my injuries weren't more severe and there wasn't more
potential $ involved. They basically recommended that I try to settle
with the insurance company myself.

So have any of you been in this kind of situation before? Can anyone
offer pointers on how to best deal with the insurance company?

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I think that I am also entitled to some award for pain and suffering.
I have some real nasty looking pictures to prove it. Any idea how to
put a value on this? Is the insurance company likely going to try to
wiggle out of this altogether?

Thanks for any insight that you can provide.

My experience with insurance companies is unless you have a lawyer,
their offer will be take it or leave it.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Dec 30, 5:50*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I've had two similar experiences, one with a dog and the other with a
driver who pulled out in front of me. In both cases I got an estimate
from a local bike shop on how much it would cost to repair/replace all
damaged items (no depreciation) and presented that to the insurance
companies (homeowner's in one case and auto in the other). Both times
they were very happy to hand me a check for the indicated amount plus
tax in exchange for my signature on a statement that this constituted
payment in full. I had some road rash both times but chose not to ask
for any compensation for that and there were no medical expenses.

But be certain that you don't have any injuries that may show up later
- if you have any doubts then get checked out thoroughly and delay
making a final settlement until you're sure.

One thing I thought of later was that I might have been able to buy
back the damaged bike from the insurance company. The collision with
a dog bent the frame but left the components (Ultegra) in good shape.
I got a payment for the price of a replacement bike and the insurance
company got the damaged one - which I'm sure ended up in a dumpster
complete with perfectly good components still attached. Probably
should have negotiated to buy the bike back from them for some nominal
salvage value.

In rec.bicycles.misc Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.

I sustained minor injuries consisting of contusions and abrasions to
my knee, leg, hip, shoulder, and face as well as a sprained wrist.
None of these injuries even though painful and inconveniencing were
significant enough to require medical treatment.

The bike sustained mostly cosmetic damage. Both shifters were
scratched and gouged as were the right side pedal and the rear
deraileur. Every piece of clothing or equipment that I was wearing was
damaged by my slide down the asphalt.

The dog owner has liability insurance. I have talked to a couple of
attorneys and they didn't seem too interested in persuing this case
because my injuries weren't more severe and there wasn't more
potential $ involved. They basically recommended that I try to settle
with the insurance company myself.

So have any of you been in this kind of situation before? Can anyone
offer pointers on how to best deal with the insurance company?

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I think that I am also entitled to some award for pain and suffering.
I have some real nasty looking pictures to prove it. Any idea how to
put a value on this? Is the insurance company likely going to try to
wiggle out of this altogether?

Thanks for any insight that you can provide.

Steve

Steve, I can't offer any advice to you yet, but I was in a similar
crash a while back. In my case my injuries were substantial and the
damage to the bike minimal. My health insurer is considering
subrogating a claim against the dog owner. They're entitled to first
crack at him, as it's in the contract and their losses were greater.
But they seem willing to cooperate with me in my own claim after that.
I will follow this thread with great interest, and will gladly offer
any advice that I'm able to give once I know what to say. Meanwhile, I
wish you well. I think maybe in your shoes I'd keep lawyer hunting and
consider punitive damages as well.
If you'd like to contact me directly, my real e-mail is below.

Good luck,
Bill

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|Real e-mail: , minus the letters w/ tails.|
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On Dec 30, 6:26*pm, peter wrote:
On Dec 30, 5:50*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I've had two similar experiences, one with a dog and the other with a
driver who pulled out in front of me. *In both cases I got an estimate
from a local bike shop on how much it would cost to repair/replace all
damaged items (no depreciation) and presented that to the insurance
companies (homeowner's in one case and auto in the other). *Both times
they were very happy to hand me a check for the indicated amount plus
tax in exchange for my signature on a statement that this constituted
payment in full. *I had some road rash both times but chose not to ask
for any compensation for that and there were no medical expenses.

But be certain that you don't have any injuries that may show up later
- if you have any doubts then get checked out thoroughly and delay
making a final settlement until you're sure.

One thing I thought of later was that I might have been able to buy
back the damaged bike from the insurance company. *The collision with
a dog bent the frame but left the components (Ultegra) in good shape.
I got a payment for the price of a replacement bike and the insurance
company got the damaged one - which I'm sure ended up in a dumpster
complete with perfectly good components still attached. *Probably
should have negotiated to buy the bike back from them for some nominal
salvage value.

Insurance companies generally pay straight replacement value based on
shop quotes. Some times they take the damaged bike and sometimes they
offer to pay replacement value less salvage value, and you keep the
bike. You can usually choose one or the other. I have never seen an
insurance company play hardball on property values so long as you get
reasonable shop quotes. -- Jay Beattie.

Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.

I sustained minor injuries consisting of contusions and abrasions to
my knee, leg, hip, shoulder, and face as well as a sprained wrist.
None of these injuries even though painful and inconveniencing were
significant enough to require medical treatment.

The bike sustained mostly cosmetic damage. Both shifters were
scratched and gouged as were the right side pedal and the rear
deraileur. Every piece of clothing or equipment that I was wearing was
damaged by my slide down the asphalt.

The dog owner has liability insurance. I have talked to a couple of
attorneys and they didn't seem too interested in persuing this case
because my injuries weren't more severe and there wasn't more
potential $ involved. They basically recommended that I try to settle
with the insurance company myself.

So have any of you been in this kind of situation before? Can anyone
offer pointers on how to best deal with the insurance company?

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I think that I am also entitled to some award for pain and suffering.
I have some real nasty looking pictures to prove it. Any idea how to
put a value on this? Is the insurance company likely going to try to
wiggle out of this altogether?

Perhaps I've been lucky, but when I had to deal with someone else's
insurance company a couple of years ago, they were amazingly
accommodating. They were definitely more interested in getting things
settled quickly than trying to save a few dollars, but that may well
vary from one company to the next. Perhaps companies have just come to
the conclusion that treating people decently and fairly is cheaper than
litigation and less financially risky than a jury trial.

I would give the company the opportunity to settle with you fairly, then
take it from there. Don't agree to anything or sign anything until you
get their final offer. They should pay for all damage at replacement
cost, cover all medical expenses and any lost wages, and offer you
something as compensation for your injuries. If their offer seems fair,
accept it and call it a day, as long as you're confident that you won't
have any residual medical problems.

In article ,
Steve Sr. wrote:

Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.

I sustained minor injuries consisting of contusions and abrasions to
my knee, leg, hip, shoulder, and face as well as a sprained wrist.
None of these injuries even though painful and inconveniencing were
significant enough to require medical treatment.

The bike sustained mostly cosmetic damage. Both shifters were
scratched and gouged as were the right side pedal and the rear
deraileur. Every piece of clothing or equipment that I was wearing
was damaged by my slide down the asphalt.

The dog owner has liability insurance. I have talked to a couple of
attorneys and they didn't seem too interested in persuing this case
because my injuries weren't more severe and there wasn't more
potential $ involved. They basically recommended that I try to settle
with the insurance company myself.

So have any of you been in this kind of situation before? Can anyone
offer pointers on how to best deal with the insurance company?

Take notes. Document everything. The name of every person at the
insurance company that you talk to, their phone number, etc. Have all
of the information written down and ready before you call them: the
date of the accident, the breed of dog, the owner's name and contact
information, copies of the receipts for your bike and your clothes,
photos of same after (and before, if possible) your accident. Photos of
you after the accident, too. A copy of the relevant animal control laws
wouldn't hurt.

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

They will try to lowball you. Every $ they pay you is a loss off their
bottom line. Insurance adjusters are employed to protect the bottom
line, not you. They will assume that you are trying to scam them,
because that happens *a lot,* so make sure that your claim is reasonable
and documented.

Get a quote on what it will cost to restore your bike to the condition
it was before the accident or replace it with an equivalent bike.

Also, talk to your insurance agent to get advice about how to talk to
the god owner's insurance company. If it's the same insurance company,
see if your agent will go to bat for you. In some cases, you will need
to deal with your insurance company (your bike damages, for example, are
probably covered under your homeowner's /renter's insurance) and they
they will work out which insurance company pays what between the two of
them.

I think that I am also entitled to some award for pain and suffering.
I have some real nasty looking pictures to prove it. Any idea how to
put a value on this? Is the insurance company likely going to try to
wiggle out of this altogether?

Pain and suffering mainly applies if you lost time from work, spent
money on medical treatment or supplies, couldn't go to social functions,
etc. as a result of the accident. If you were able to live your normal
life despite the discomfort, you won't get much for this.

Good luck!

On Dec 30, 6:50*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.

I sustained minor injuries consisting of contusions and abrasions to
my knee, leg, hip, shoulder, and face as well as a sprained wrist.
None of these injuries even though painful and inconveniencing were
significant enough to require medical treatment.

The bike sustained mostly cosmetic damage. Both shifters were
scratched and gouged as were the right side pedal and the rear
deraileur. Every piece of clothing or equipment that I was wearing was
damaged by my slide down the asphalt.

The dog owner has liability insurance. I have talked to a couple of
attorneys and they didn't seem too interested in persuing this case
because my injuries weren't more severe and there wasn't more
potential $ involved. They basically recommended that I try to settle
with the insurance company myself.

So have any of you been in this kind of situation before? Can anyone
offer pointers on how to best deal with the insurance company?

I would like to be reimbursed for replacement for my damaged property
and bike components. Any idea as to whether the insurance company is
going to try to depreciate my property damages before making a
settlement offer?

I think that I am also entitled to some award for pain and suffering.
I have some real nasty looking pictures to prove it. Any idea how to
put a value on this? Is the insurance company likely going to try to
wiggle out of this altogether?

Thanks for any insight that you can provide.

Steve

Keep looking for a lawyer. The insurance company will use one, you
should too.

On Dec 30, 7:50*pm, Steve Sr. wrote:

(lotta good advice snipped)

I talked to someone the other day, someone who told me a couple of
stories about bike wrecks, and getting money for wrecked bikes.

Lots of money. "It's all in the estimate". Basically, he stuck it to
them but good.

I blanched somewhat, surprised that this person would resort to such
tactics, but quickly remembered that "honesty" is not always required
when dealing with dishonest people or institutions.

Like insurance companies who accept hefty property insurance premiums
for years and years and only notice the words "flood plain" after a
flood, when silly people expect to get their houses fixed for free or
something. Silly people!

Well, let me put it this way: some people got new cars and got their
houses fixed, and some didn't. Maybe some people had good lawyers, and
some people had decent insurance companies who paid off like they
should have after accepting premiums. (ref. Houston, Allison, 2001)

IOW, count anything you get "over true replacement costs" as
compensation for pain & suffering, which as others have pointed out,
you might have trouble getting any money for, since you weren't, by
luck (and riding skill, of course!) more grievously injured.

Including keeping the bike after payment, which is part of the stories
above. Or, the insurance company might take the old bike and sell/
auction it "for salvage". Likely no dumpster trip at this point, and
if you wind up with a new bike and a beater bike, plus a little money,
that sounds like justice to me.

Go after the dog owner; you're probably not the first person to have a
problem with that dog while going about your own lawful business--
unless you taunted the dog, or otherwise deliberately provoked an
attack, you did nothing "wrong" and are blameless in this incident.

A dog that (1) leaves his property and (2) knocks people down has
exceeded his rightful role as protector, and needs restraint,
relocation, or a one-way trip to doggie heaven. "You could have been
crippled or killed". Don't let it slide. An "electric fence" (shock
collar) is an intelligent solution which protects the dog from being
run over by a motor vehicle and allows the dog to do his job at the
same time.

BTW, I find shouting very loudly and repeatedly will deter most dogs
from pressing the attack and I always find it amazing when experienced
riders don't shout at dogs (only) AFTER the attack is commenced-- "not
cool" or something; yeah, I'd rather not have to dodge a dog that is
hard-wired to create mayhem in a "prey pack" (knocking down and
injuring prey) or deal with an animal that regards me, when I'm riding
solo, as an easy kill. Not a nice feeling, is it? Yes, you are perhaps
lucky you were not mauled and yes, I know riders who were.

I may have a chance to speak to the person mentioned above in the next
day or two and I will ask about his negotiation technique; he's got
something going on there and I know he will be happy to share (g).

Happy New Year! --D-y

On Dec 30, 8:50 pm, Steve Sr. wrote:
Hello,

I hope that everyone is having a happy holiday season and is looking
forward to a safe and prosperous new year.

I was recently attacked while riding on the road by an unrestrained
dog running off the owners property into the public roadway. The dog
got in front of my front wheel and caused a crash at about 20-25MPH.
[...]
Steve

I practiced plaintiff's law once (then retired), and the damages for a
lawyer's calculations are ordinarily a multiple of the medicals. You
have no medicals, so your settlement figure must be pulled out of the
air. You should have at least made one trip to the doctor. It is not
up to you to decide the severity of your injuries. You don't know
that there may be lurking damage.

Ordinarily damage to property is the difference in fair market value
of the damaged vehicle, immediately before and immediately after the
occurrence.

Yes, you're entitled to P&S, and yes, the insurance company usually
tries to wiggle out and leave you holding the bag, although on
occasion one will negotiate in good faith.

If I were on a jury considering this injury-- and because an angry
doberman once put my bike and me over into the bushes while its master
stood on the porch grinning -- I'd certainly add some money as damages
against the dog owner for allowing a junkyard dog to run loose, and if
it happened in my city, punitive damages would be payable because of
the violation of animal control laws.

Under the rules of procedure your attorney (or you) can discover the
extent of the liability coverage. I bet the owner has homeowner's
insurance too, with coverage of your injuries.