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  #21  
Old August 20th 16, 03:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default green paint failure

On 8/20/2016 8:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:


An excellent subject,"what is a color?"

Yesterday I heard someone on the radio state matter-of-factly "a rainbow
has seven colors". Uh, not so much. It's a spectrum, even extending out
on both ends beyond human perception.

Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a color match to
an official color chip? If I add a homeopathic level of black into a
fifty gallon drum of white, is it white or off-white? At what level is
it not a match?

(I do color matches regularly and even when customers are completely
happy I can often see variance of hue or in the case of metallics, of
depth or grain.)


Yep. I just went through that, trying to touch up the orange paint on
my weird old custom three speed. It sure looked like International
Orange - until I painted some on. It took half an hour of experimenting
to get it to where it passed a five foot test.

And I'm no ignoramus regarding colors. I know how to operate a color wheel!

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #22  
Old August 20th 16, 05:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default green paint failure

On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 8:56:20 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/20/2016 7:43 AM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 8:37:27 AM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 2:00:57 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 08:37:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:02:56 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:24:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...817-story.html

Chicago didn't use the right shade of green paint probably.

I think I see the problem. Chicago marks their bike lanes with a
solid line of green paint. In the Peoples Republic of Santa Cruz CA,
we use striped paint, which is cheaper. It also doesn't look like a
miniature golf green, which might confuse Chicago drivers.
http://www.cityofsantacruz.com/Home/Components/News/News/1783/835

Surely there must be Federal Regulations that prevent the use of
improper colors to denote safety zones. After all the health and
welfare people have rules and regulation for everything else. Have
they overlooked the bicycle world :-(

Yep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Standard_595
There are 650 colors available. Some charts include the Federal
agency that has staked its claim on one specific color number. Where
State and local specifications call for a specific color, it will be
the number from FED-STD-595C.

Incidentally, a friend is in the business of selling FED-STD-595C
color chips and documents to builders and contractors that need to
match their paint to 595C colors.
http://www.estore.fed-std-595.com/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

my cheap 1620's color chip is not up to this

https://goo.gl/KwAuvn

what is the runner for color Lieb ? max gamers so tosee the blood run out of Ronan's XXXXXXX ?


https://goo.gl/ifn2jw


is there a screen saver with all colors ?


An excellent subject,"what is a color?"

Yesterday I heard someone on the radio state
matter-of-factly "a rainbow has seven colors". Uh, not so
much. It's a spectrum, even extending out on both ends
beyond human perception.

Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a
color match to an official color chip? If I add a
homeopathic level of black into a fifty gallon drum of
white, is it white or off-white? At what level is it not a
match?

(I do color matches regularly and even when customers are
completely happy I can often see variance of hue or in the
case of metallics, of depth or grain.)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


metallics are unnerving. metallic drivers may be so ..

amateur South American paint schemes are beyond comprehension.

here's a shot: http://www.awhiteheaddesign.com/wp-c...15/04/01sm.jpg
  #23  
Old August 20th 16, 05:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default green paint failure



https://www.google.com/search?site=i...cycle+accident
  #24  
Old August 20th 16, 08:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default green paint failure

On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 7:54:43 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/20/2016 8:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:


An excellent subject,"what is a color?"

Yesterday I heard someone on the radio state matter-of-factly "a rainbow
has seven colors". Uh, not so much. It's a spectrum, even extending out
on both ends beyond human perception.

Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a color match to
an official color chip? If I add a homeopathic level of black into a
fifty gallon drum of white, is it white or off-white? At what level is
it not a match?

(I do color matches regularly and even when customers are completely
happy I can often see variance of hue or in the case of metallics, of
depth or grain.)


Yep. I just went through that, trying to touch up the orange paint on
my weird old custom three speed. It sure looked like International
Orange - until I painted some on. It took half an hour of experimenting
to get it to where it passed a five foot test.

And I'm no ignoramus regarding colors. I know how to operate a color wheel!


I did that trying to match ceiling paint. I knew the maker; I knew the color name, but the can I bought was nowhere near the color on the ceiling. It might have been at one time, but after 15 years of light exposure, the new paint was way too dark. I ended up with another manufacturer's color. The chip was practically a perfect match. As applied, it matches if you look at it from one direction, but not another -- which probably means the sheen is slightly off. It's a big ceiling and I didn't feel like painting the whole thing.

BTW, our green bike crossings used to be blue, and they are still blue in some places. I find blue much safer than green. Green is like, "oh, its a pasture" People dream of picking daisies, picnics, etc. Blue is more serious -- like cop car lights.

For some reason -- I suppose to be super safe -- they sliced up the green bike lane crossing the I-5 on-ramp near my house. It is now striped. Grinding off the thermoplastic to create the stripe made the crossing into a rumble-strip. I find that bouncing over ground-down green stripes is super safe.. http://tinyurl.com/hzs9rnh It makes me feel better about riding my bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #25  
Old August 21st 16, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default green paint failure

On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 1:56:20 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

Yesterday I heard someone on the radio state
matter-of-factly "a rainbow has seven colors". Uh, not so
much. It's a spectrum, even extending out on both ends
beyond human perception.


Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a
color match to an official color chip?


Other way round, Andrew. Munsell, CIE and so on, define the color theoretically and then finds a natural match to it. The commercial system in use by printers and large corporations, Pantone, relates this theoretical system to what can be achieved with four inks (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, plus Black, shorthanded CMYK, sometimes with other difficult or impossible to mix colours known as "block colors"), and various RGB systems for television screens, all of it working through individual pixels that the eye interprets as greys, shades, tones and tints.

If I add a
homeopathic level of black into a fifty gallon drum of
white, is it white or off-white?


Depends. In reprographics, and the fine arts as well, we get around the problem by assigning a percentage value to the tone. *Yrey* is 50% of nlack and white each, also sometimes in typography ("graphic design" to the hoi polloi) called "a neutral". A *tone* is some variable percentage of each of black and white, a *shade* some colour added to black only (in practice, as you no doubt know, you add the black in small parts to the color), a *tint* is some colour added to white.

At what level is it not a
match?


A match to what? Something you already have? Then you put a color meter on it, and sometimes a densitometer, depending on what it is you're reproducing and how close the match must be on hoe many parameters, many of which do not have meters or scientific tests, only experienced judgement.

(I do color matches regularly and even when customers are
completely happy I can often see variance of hue or in the
case of metallics, of depth or grain.)


Uh-huh It's highly probable that after years of experience your eye will come as close as some recent graduate in a white coat can come even with a hundred grands' worth of equipment. You just learn to live with such imprecision.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


What was i just saying about years of experience?

There's a general introduction to these matters in Andre Jute: Publications for Professional Communicators (Batsford, London, 1994) and an overview of the field for more expert practitioners in Andre Jute: Colour for Professional Communicators (Batsford, London, 1993). Other books in the same series (Graphic Design in the Computer Age, General Editor Andre Jute http://coolmainpress.com/andrejuteGDitCA.html ) also touch on various topics in color relevant to their particular subjects. Also, much more expert notes passim in Andre Jute: GRIDS the Structure of Graphic Design (Rotovision, Geneva, 1996). Some of my non-fiction books, including those of interest to students of color, are at http://coolmainpress.com/andrejutebooksnonfic.html

Andre Jute
Reprographer
  #26  
Old August 21st 16, 12:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default green paint failure

On 8/20/2016 8:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:


Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a color match to
an official color chip? If I add a homeopathic level of black into a
fifty gallon drum of white, is it white or off-white? At what level is
it not a match?


Here's something very pertinent:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/211119-colors/

Driving to a distant gig today, I heard most of the above Radiolab
program. We all know that a significant portion (maybe 10%?) of males
are color blind. Seems there's some evidence that some people are the
opposite: hyper-capable of distinguishing colors. BTW, those people are
reputed to be mostly female, based on their double X chromosomes and the
effect on their DNA.

I suppose you'd need to let a woman like that mix her own touch up paint!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #27  
Old August 21st 16, 06:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default green paint failure

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 07:56:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/20/2016 7:43 AM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 8:37:27 AM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 2:00:57 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 08:37:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:02:56 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:24:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...817-story.html

Chicago didn't use the right shade of green paint probably.

I think I see the problem. Chicago marks their bike lanes with a
solid line of green paint. In the Peoples Republic of Santa Cruz CA,
we use striped paint, which is cheaper. It also doesn't look like a
miniature golf green, which might confuse Chicago drivers.
http://www.cityofsantacruz.com/Home/Components/News/News/1783/835

Surely there must be Federal Regulations that prevent the use of
improper colors to denote safety zones. After all the health and
welfare people have rules and regulation for everything else. Have
they overlooked the bicycle world :-(

Yep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Standard_595
There are 650 colors available. Some charts include the Federal
agency that has staked its claim on one specific color number. Where
State and local specifications call for a specific color, it will be
the number from FED-STD-595C.

Incidentally, a friend is in the business of selling FED-STD-595C
color chips and documents to builders and contractors that need to
match their paint to 595C colors.
http://www.estore.fed-std-595.com/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

my cheap 1620's color chip is not up to this

https://goo.gl/KwAuvn

what is the runner for color Lieb ? max gamers so tosee the blood run out of Ronan's XXXXXXX ?


https://goo.gl/ifn2jw


is there a screen saver with all colors ?


An excellent subject,"what is a color?"

Yesterday I heard someone on the radio state
matter-of-factly "a rainbow has seven colors". Uh, not so
much. It's a spectrum, even extending out on both ends
beyond human perception.

Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a
color match to an official color chip? If I add a
homeopathic level of black into a fifty gallon drum of
white, is it white or off-white? At what level is it not a
match?

(I do color matches regularly and even when customers are
completely happy I can often see variance of hue or in the
case of metallics, of depth or grain.)


I've always wondered how this "color matching" was done. I got a
fender straightened on my Isuzu pickup - say 15 years old, never been
garaged, the shop took off the R.H. side mirror and it had what
appeared to be original paint inside where the mirror fitted up
against the door. Handed to mirror to a guy on a motorcycle and he
roared off. Two days later I pick the truck up and Damn! You can't see
where the fender was repaired.

(I've always suspected help from Spirits)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #28  
Old August 21st 16, 06:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default green paint failure

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:15:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/20/2016 8:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:


Regarding 'official color charts', who decides what is a color match to
an official color chip? If I add a homeopathic level of black into a
fifty gallon drum of white, is it white or off-white? At what level is
it not a match?


Here's something very pertinent:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/211119-colors/

Driving to a distant gig today, I heard most of the above Radiolab
program. We all know that a significant portion (maybe 10%?) of males
are color blind. Seems there's some evidence that some people are the
opposite: hyper-capable of distinguishing colors. BTW, those people are
reputed to be mostly female, based on their double X chromosomes and the
effect on their DNA.

I suppose you'd need to let a woman like that mix her own touch up paint!


One would think that a really, really, adroit advocate would be able
to not only convince the wife that selecting the color properly was
best done by the Wife but the actual applying of the paint had a
beneficial effect on girth and weight, and thus logically would be of
greatest benefit to the distaff side of the family.

I can see this as really great advertisement in the Yellow Pages. "I
convinced my wife to paint the ceiling!"
--
cheers,

John B.

  #29  
Old August 21st 16, 12:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default green paint failure


http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%...&qt=first_page

////////////////


datakoll

yesterday painted driver's side floor E250 with Rustoleum after derusting
  #30  
Old August 21st 16, 07:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default green paint failure

Phase change is amazing ... Lexis has several nice phase change paints .. white, a pale French blue

The Lesotho day go T's here (NA) in yellow turn white after twilight. 90 poly 10 cotton to take up dye. Needs twinkles...
 




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