|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
More benefits of being visible, at lane center:
A paper from Australia notes that car-bike crashes in roundabouts seem to occur mostly when cyclists stick to the edge and aren't noticed by motorists. They recommend that any bike lanes end well before the roundabout, and that cyclists ride in a very visible position, near the center of the roundabout. (They're talking about single-lane roundabouts, I'm sure.) The abstract link came from a friend in Oz. Full disclosu I haven't yet read the paper itself. https://www.onlinepublications.austr...ems/AP-R461-14 In France, we bicycled (and drove) through many, many roundabouts without problems. Only in Troyes did we see bike lanes painted in the outer edge of roundabouts. Troyes also had many other hare-brained "innovative" bike facilities. I'm sure the town was very proud of them. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On Friday, May 23, 2014 6:10:42 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
More benefits of being visible, at lane center: A paper from Australia notes that car-bike crashes in roundabouts seem to occur mostly when cyclists stick to the edge and aren't noticed by motorists. They recommend that any bike lanes end well before the roundabout, and that cyclists ride in a very visible position, near the center of the roundabout. (They're talking about single-lane roundabouts, I'm sure.) The abstract link came from a friend in Oz. Full disclosu I haven't yet read the paper itself. https://www.onlinepublications.austr...ems/AP-R461-14 In France, we bicycled (and drove) through many, many roundabouts without problems. Only in Troyes did we see bike lanes painted in the outer edge of roundabouts. Troyes also had many other hare-brained "innovative" bike facilities. I'm sure the town was very proud of them. -- - Frank Krygowski Common knowledge around her. Once had a discussion with a police officer about the fact that I took the round about like a car. I invited her to watch the round about for a while and count the cars that would squeeze a cyclist against the curb while entering and how many cars forget to signal leaving the round about. After just a couple of minutes she understood what I was talking about but her argument was that if anybody would do that it would cause chaos. Drivers get ****ed from time to time though. Lou |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On 5/23/2014 3:07 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Friday, May 23, 2014 6:10:42 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote: More benefits of being visible, at lane center: A paper from Australia notes that car-bike crashes in roundabouts seem to occur mostly when cyclists stick to the edge and aren't noticed by motorists. They recommend that any bike lanes end well before the roundabout, and that cyclists ride in a very visible position, near the center of the roundabout. (They're talking about single-lane roundabouts, I'm sure.) The abstract link came from a friend in Oz. Full disclosu I haven't yet read the paper itself. https://www.onlinepublications.austr...ems/AP-R461-14 In France, we bicycled (and drove) through many, many roundabouts without problems. Only in Troyes did we see bike lanes painted in the outer edge of roundabouts. Troyes also had many other hare-brained "innovative" bike facilities. I'm sure the town was very proud of them. -- - Frank Krygowski Common knowledge around her. Once had a discussion with a police officer about the fact that I took the round about like a car. I invited her to watch the round about for a while and count the cars that would squeeze a cyclist against the curb while entering and how many cars forget to signal leaving the round about. After just a couple of minutes she understood what I was talking about but her argument was that if anybody would do that it would cause chaos. Drivers get ****ed from time to time though. Agreed, not a good place for a bike lane. But then again, I think taking the lane in a rotary/roundabout/traffic circle probably has a lot to do with the speed and density of the traffic. I use one on my commute but it's smallish and single laned. Still, with cars entering at speed in 4 places (one exiting from a highway) it can be dicey pulling in front of them. I preferred the 4 corner stop that was there before they installed this. There are a couple around Boston that I would not consider trying. One around Arlington that I remember pretty well. I don't consider this a bike friendly environment. It's intended to move traffic more quickly rather than calming it I think. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
Per Frank Krygowski:
A paper from Australia notes that car-bike crashes in roundabouts seem to occur mostly when cyclists stick to the edge and aren't noticed by motorists. They recommend that any bike lanes end well before the roundabout, and that cyclists ride in a very visible position, near the center of the roundabout. Most of the close calls I have had were because I was too far over towards the shoulder, tempting somebody to pass in an unsafe manner. I think it was Frank that clued me in to that. Doesn't me any less reluctant to mix it up with motor vehicles, but when I have to, now I know not to get so far over as to tempt somebody to pass unsafely. Something else that nobody seems to talk about: some drivers have no clue where their right wheels are. I ride with one on occasion and they're constantly running through potholes that are well on the shoulder and curbing their tires. I think you definitely do *not* want to try to share the road with that particular person. -- Pete Cresswell |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On 5/23/2014 3:39 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Frank Krygowski: A paper from Australia notes that car-bike crashes in roundabouts seem to occur mostly when cyclists stick to the edge and aren't noticed by motorists. They recommend that any bike lanes end well before the roundabout, and that cyclists ride in a very visible position, near the center of the roundabout. Most of the close calls I have had were because I was too far over towards the shoulder, tempting somebody to pass in an unsafe manner. I think it was Frank that clued me in to that. Doesn't me any less reluctant to mix it up with motor vehicles, but when I have to, now I know not to get so far over as to tempt somebody to pass unsafely. Something else that nobody seems to talk about: some drivers have no clue where their right wheels are. I ride with one on occasion and they're constantly running through potholes that are well on the shoulder and curbing their tires. I think you definitely do *not* want to try to share the road with that particular person. Yeah Pete, well it'd be good if they had a flashing light on their nose or something to let you know who they are. :-? |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On 5/23/2014 2:34 PM, Duane wrote:
On 5/23/2014 3:07 PM, Lou Holtman wrote: On Friday, May 23, 2014 6:10:42 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote: More benefits of being visible, at lane center: A paper from Australia notes that car-bike crashes in roundabouts seem to occur mostly when cyclists stick to the edge and aren't noticed by motorists. They recommend that any bike lanes end well before the roundabout, and that cyclists ride in a very visible position, near the center of the roundabout. (They're talking about single-lane roundabouts, I'm sure.) The abstract link came from a friend in Oz. Full disclosu I haven't yet read the paper itself. https://www.onlinepublications.austr...ems/AP-R461-14 In France, we bicycled (and drove) through many, many roundabouts without problems. Only in Troyes did we see bike lanes painted in the outer edge of roundabouts. Troyes also had many other hare-brained "innovative" bike facilities. I'm sure the town was very proud of them. -- - Frank Krygowski Common knowledge around her. Once had a discussion with a police officer about the fact that I took the round about like a car. I invited her to watch the round about for a while and count the cars that would squeeze a cyclist against the curb while entering and how many cars forget to signal leaving the round about. After just a couple of minutes she understood what I was talking about but her argument was that if anybody would do that it would cause chaos. Drivers get ****ed from time to time though. Agreed, not a good place for a bike lane. But then again, I think taking the lane in a rotary/roundabout/traffic circle probably has a lot to do with the speed and density of the traffic. I use one on my commute but it's smallish and single laned. Still, with cars entering at speed in 4 places (one exiting from a highway) it can be dicey pulling in front of them. I preferred the 4 corner stop that was there before they installed this. There are a couple around Boston that I would not consider trying. One around Arlington that I remember pretty well. I don't consider this a bike friendly environment. It's intended to move traffic more quickly rather than calming it I think. They're the latest trend around here. Hugely expensive, use more land, everyone's friend or brother gets a cut and the 'designers' get to feel smug about 'improving America'. Oh, in the whipped cream on poop department, they now add sculpture, stonework, trees or such impedimenta in the middle so there are no clear sight lines. I just hate them and ride well out of my way to avoid the damned pernicious things. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On Friday, May 23, 2014 8:49:29 PM UTC+1, Duane wrote:
On 5/23/2014 3:39 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: I ride with one on occasion and they're constantly running through potholes that are well on the shoulder and curbing their tires. I think you definitely do *not* want to try to share the road with that particular person. Yeah Pete, well it'd be good if they had a flashing light on their nose or something to let you know who they are. :-? Your common or garden U-lock does excellent duty as a hammer. You could try marking their cars, like cutting the ears of cattle so you know the rogues.. We have a couple of roundabouts and the one that is marked with a big roundel with a fountain on it is no hassle: you just ride well into the single wide lane and cars can choose to stay behind you or pass, the lane is that wide. It's the visual effect of the very visible roundabout, and the physical turn required to get around it, that calms the traffic to agreeble proportions. It's the other, smaller one, just a circle painted on a wide road at a T-junction, that causes the problems. From behind the wheel a driver sees a wide, straight road, and doesn't slow, despite the fact that it is near the flashing amber lamp of a pedestrian crossing. The traffic moves so fast, taking the lane is difficult, and maintaining it dangerous if you start too far back, because cars will pass you on both sides, this being a very wide single lane in each direction. It's a nightmare because the cyclist, the most vulnerable negotiant in the mix, cannot know what to expect from any driver.. (Predictablilty as a prime determinant of both perceived and real security for the cyclist!) I used to live over the clinic just past this roundabout, and sometimes I'd talk to European cycle tourists who passed, and the Germans especially would wonder which incompetent created that roundabout. It was built as a "traffic-calming measure"; honest. The lady pedal pals who lived nearby would ride on the sidewalk to the pedestrian crossing and use that, but I had some hair-raising experiences when I "did a Krygo" and stood on my rights as a road user. It was on that roundabout that I learned the difference between a British or Irish truck driver, and one from the Continent. The Paddy and the Brit will attempt to bully a cyclist with the pure beef of the truck, the Continental driver just slows and waits a decent distance back. Andre Jute There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in thy philosophies |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On 5/23/2014 5:11 PM, AMuzi wrote about roundabouts:
They're the latest trend around here. Hugely expensive, use more land, everyone's friend or brother gets a cut and the 'designers' get to feel smug about 'improving America'. Oh, in the whipped cream on poop department, they now add sculpture, stonework, trees or such impedimenta in the middle so there are no clear sight lines. I just hate them and ride well out of my way to avoid the damned pernicious things. Wow. I've found them to work really well. Besides the many we used in France, there's an ancient one in one of my favorite "ride there for lunch" towns, and they've just begun construction on the first one in my county. It happens to be on the road that used to be my commuting route. That last one is an intersection between two collector streets, each with just two lanes. It now has a traffic light, but eastbound traffic regularly backs up for three light cycles, corked by motorists wanting to turn left. North- or southbound traffic (the way I'd normally ride) gets loop detectors to trigger a green. I've had to phone to get them adjusted to detect my bike; and sometimes the loops failed due to being severed by potholes. I look forward to the roundabout. I think traffic flow will be much better. And I've never liked stopping for a red light (car, motorcycle, bike, whatever) when there's nobody using the other-direction green light. Incidentally, one complaint I've heard is that roundabouts are more difficult for blind or handicapped pedestrians. But that intersection doesn't even have sidewalks, so if true, it may not be a problem there. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
On 24/05/14 07:11, AMuzi wrote:
They're the latest trend around here. Hugely expensive, use more land, everyone's friend or brother gets a cut and the 'designers' get to feel smug about 'improving America'. Oh, in the whipped cream on poop department, they now add sculpture, stonework, trees or such impedimenta in the middle so there are no clear sight lines. I just hate them and ride well out of my way to avoid the damned pernicious things. Sounds like they are poorly designed, or you're not using them well. I'm happy to ride through some here that have 3 roundabouts merged into one ... http://goo.gl/maps/SbhDO -- Js |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Taking the lane, roundabout version
James wrote:
On 24/05/14 07:11, AMuzi wrote: They're the latest trend around here. Hugely expensive, use more land, everyone's friend or brother gets a cut and the 'designers' get to feel smug about 'improving America'. Oh, in the whipped cream on poop department, they now add sculpture, stonework, trees or such impedimenta in the middle so there are no clear sight lines. I just hate them and ride well out of my way to avoid the damned pernicious things. Sounds like they are poorly designed, or you're not using them well. I'm happy to ride through some here that have 3 roundabouts merged into one ... http://goo.gl/maps/SbhDO Like I said I think it depends on the traffic speed and congestion. Having them is series like that probably slows the cars down some. -- duane |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Taking the lane | Joe Riel | Techniques | 76 | July 18th 13 03:27 AM |
taking the lane | nik.morgan[_2_] | UK | 3 | August 19th 12 01:50 PM |
Taking the lane in London | Simon Mason | UK | 19 | August 4th 11 08:15 AM |
Taking The Lane | Steve Walker[_2_] | UK | 6 | March 3rd 11 09:21 AM |
Cycle lane on roundabout - who has priority? | NM | UK | 589 | April 17th 09 08:59 PM |