Knackered bottom bracket.

wrote in
:

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently; there
seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked bottom
bracket bearings.

Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very old
rusty Raleigh.

Is quality going downhill just lately?

Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants dessicate
and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.

Just about anything except very top-end models after roughly
1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.

That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
with annual or 2-year bearing service.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets and the grease
is black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare metal.

With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom brackets will last
forever.

The new enclosed BB's will required replacement at regular intervals
but what that is I haven't discovered yet.

Campagnolo's warranty of its sealed BBs is three years against
manufacturer's defects, so I would take it from there that mine could fail
any time thereafter.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently; there
seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked bottom
bracket bearings.

Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very old
rusty Raleigh.

Is quality going downhill just lately?

Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants dessicate
and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.

Just about anything except very top-end models after roughly
1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.

That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
with annual or 2-year bearing service.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets and the grease
is
black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare metal.

With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom brackets will last
forever.

Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably never got any oil
since
leaving the shop.

Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many sins. Once or twice
I've
had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but never had to
repair
a broken one.

A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very recent bike, the
spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have any, so I filled the
cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when the relative passed
on.

If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always one ball less
than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to shoulder, as
it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and assemble the
bearing.

Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Leaving one ball out creates a gap that the cone settles into - then the
cone will be resting the entire force on the 2 balls that are either side of
the gap.

The cup is always designed so too many balls won't fit, and too few will be
obvious.

Ian Field wrote:


:"John B." wrote in message
.. .
: On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
: wrote:
:
:
:
wrote in message
...
: On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
: On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
: Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently; there
: seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked bottom
: bracket bearings.
:
: Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very old
: rusty Raleigh.
:
: Is quality going downhill just lately?
:
: Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
: since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants dessicate
: and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.
:
: Just about anything except very top-end models after roughly
: 1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
: labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
: bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
: There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.
:
: That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
: midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
: lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
: spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
: with annual or 2-year bearing service.
:
: --
: Andrew Muzi
: www.yellowjersey.org/
: Open every day since 1 April, 1971
:
: I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets and the grease
: is
: black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare metal.
:
: With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom brackets will last
: forever.
:
:Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably never got any oil
:since
:leaving the shop.
:
:Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many sins. Once or twice
:I've
:had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but never had to
:repair
:a broken one.
:
:A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very recent bike, the
:spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have any, so I filled the
:cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when the relative passed
:on.
:
: If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always one ball less
: than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to shoulder, as
: it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and assemble the
: bearing.

:Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Take your meds, dude. He's right.



--
sig 91

"David Scheidt" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote:


:"John B." wrote in message
.. .
: On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
: wrote:
:
:
:
wrote in message
...
: On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
: On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
: Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently; there
: seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked bottom
: bracket bearings.
:
: Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very old
: rusty Raleigh.
:
: Is quality going downhill just lately?
:
: Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
: since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants dessicate
: and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.
:
: Just about anything except very top-end models after roughly
: 1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
: labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
: bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
: There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.
:
: That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
: midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
: lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
: spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
: with annual or 2-year bearing service.
:
: --
: Andrew Muzi
: www.yellowjersey.org/
: Open every day since 1 April, 1971
:
: I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets and the
grease
: is
: black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare metal.
:
: With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom brackets will last
: forever.
:
:Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably never got any oil
:since
:leaving the shop.
:
:Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many sins. Once or twice
:I've
:had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but never had to
:repair
:a broken one.
:
:A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very recent bike, the
:spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have any, so I filled
the
:cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when the relative
passed
:on.
:
: If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always one ball less
: than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to shoulder, as
: it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and assemble the
: bearing.

:Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Take your meds, dude. He's right.

No he's not - the right number of balls leaves a gap that's way too small to
take one too many.

If you take one out as he says - you'll end up with a couple of cracked ball
bearings that break up and ruin the others.

He's a ****wit - and I despair of anyone who can't recognise that!

On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 at 4:39:37 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"David Scheidt" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote:


:"John B." wrote in message
.. .
: On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
: wrote:
:
:
:
wrote in message
...
: On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
: On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
: Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently; there
: seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked bottom
: bracket bearings.
:
: Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very old
: rusty Raleigh.
:
: Is quality going downhill just lately?
:
: Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
: since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants dessicate
: and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.
:
: Just about anything except very top-end models after roughly
: 1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
: labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
: bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
: There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.
:
: That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
: midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
: lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
: spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
: with annual or 2-year bearing service.
:
: --
: Andrew Muzi
: www.yellowjersey.org/
: Open every day since 1 April, 1971
:
: I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets and the
grease
: is
: black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare metal.
:
: With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom brackets will last
: forever.
:
:Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably never got any oil
:since
:leaving the shop.
:
:Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many sins. Once or twice
:I've
:had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but never had to
:repair
:a broken one.
:
:A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very recent bike, the
:spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have any, so I filled
the
:cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when the relative
passed
:on.
:
: If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always one ball less
: than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to shoulder, as
: it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and assemble the
: bearing.

:Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Take your meds, dude. He's right.

No he's not - the right number of balls leaves a gap that's way too small to
take one too many.

If you take one out as he says - you'll end up with a couple of cracked ball
bearings that break up and ruin the others.

He's a ****wit - and I despair of anyone who can't recognise that!

Not that you'll believe it but for the sake of others; full minus one ball bearing in any bicycle cup and cone system is NORMAL. A Google Search gets the reasoning behind the normal full minus one ball bearing that any Competent bicycle mechanic uses.

"In practice most bearings spread a little as you tighten the cones so "full" when you're adding balls is not actually full in use. You can usually see this - when you're adding balls they generally sit in against the axle, then when you add the cone it spreads the bearings slightly. So filling the race is almost always fine.

Don't be tempted to add one more to fill in the extra space created when you tighten it up, this is exactly the situation the "full less one" guide is trying to avoid. That "full plus one" means all the load is on one bearing (and one section of the cone), plus the bearings are really grnding against each other as the wheel rotates. If you're lucky the wheel won't rotate in this situation, but if you're unlucky you're wreck the cups and have to replace the cups (or hub, if the cups are not replaceable)."

Cheerio

On 8/10/2016 2:45 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"John B." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently;
there
seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked
bottom
bracket bearings.

Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very
old
rusty Raleigh.

Is quality going downhill just lately?

Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants
dessicate
and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.

Just about anything except very top-end models after
roughly
1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.

That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
with annual or 2-year bearing service.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets
and the grease is
black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare
metal.

With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom
brackets will last
forever.

Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably never
got any oil since
leaving the shop.

Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many sins.
Once or twice I've
had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but
never had to repair
a broken one.

A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very
recent bike, the
spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have
any, so I filled the
cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when the
relative passed on.

If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always one
ball less
than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to
shoulder, as
it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and
assemble the
bearing.

Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Leaving one ball out creates a gap that the cone settles
into - then the cone will be resting the entire force on the
2 balls that are either side of the gap.

The cup is always designed so too many balls won't fit, and
too few will be obvious.

For any given standard cup-and-cone design, the correct
count minus one will ride at the exact same diameter and run
just fine (albeit with faster wear from fewer wear points).

Add one more than correct count and balls contact sections
of the cup and/or cone the designer never intended. The
system will chew itself up in short order. Hence the general
rule of thumb to run short when in doubt.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/10/2016 3:40 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"David Scheidt" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote:


:"John B." wrote in message
.. .
: On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
: wrote:
:
:
:
wrote in message
...

: On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
: On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
: Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage
recently; there
: seems to be an increasing number with totally
wrecked bottom
: bracket bearings.
:
: Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a
very old
: rusty Raleigh.
:
: Is quality going downhill just lately?
:
: Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no
maintenance
: since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants
dessicate
: and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.
:
: Just about anything except very top-end models after
roughly
: 1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
: labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off
new
: bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at
best.
: There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.
:
: That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep
even
: midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
: lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in
for new
: spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50
years
: with annual or 2-year bearing service.
:
: -- : Andrew Muzi
: www.yellowjersey.org/
: Open every day since 1 April, 1971
:
: I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom
brackets and the grease
: is
: black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare
metal.
:
: With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom
brackets will last
: forever.
:
:Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably
never got any oil
:since
:leaving the shop.
:
:Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many
sins. Once or twice
:I've
:had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but
never had to
:repair
:a broken one.
:
:A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very
recent bike, the
:spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have
any, so I filled the
:cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when
the relative passed
:on.
:
: If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always
one ball less
: than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to
shoulder, as
: it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and
assemble the
: bearing.

:Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Take your meds, dude. He's right.

No he's not - the right number of balls leaves a gap that's
way too small to take one too many.

If you take one out as he says - you'll end up with a couple
of cracked ball bearings that break up and ruin the others.

He's a ****wit - and I despair of anyone who can't recognise
that!


If you have a point it escaped me even on second reading.

I see plenty of examples both ways and one short works just
fine. One over is a mess of chewed edges and damaged balls.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

WUHWUHWUHW WUH....

YASEE, the assembly in one too many may look as if there's a gap left over but not when the assembly is tightened down to turn.

the minus one off full in correct form LEAVES A GAP GAP begging for...

one mo ball

but that GAPEING GAP DIVIDED BY 8 balls or 7 ...you either get an 8 ball or an odd lucky ball I forget which, is a small gap between balls...

check gaps on a retainer set. fairly wide, no ?

this assumes yawl have the correct size balls.

This 2 will become obvious if incorrect.

long live the cartridge bearing.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:45:15 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:30:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 2:35:14 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/7/2016 3:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
Among the bikes I've stripped for salvage recently; there
seems to be an increasing number with totally wrecked bottom
bracket bearings.

Can't ever remember wrecking one myself - even a very old
rusty Raleigh.

Is quality going downhill just lately?

Older (pre-1980s), products which have had no maintenance
since new are just about at life's end. Lubricants dessicate
and fail, bearings and bearing surfaces shortly after.

Just about anything except very top-end models after roughly
1990 were mostly built without significant shop prep as
labor costs rose. Most shops quit full all-parts-off new
bicycle prep and the factory setup was marginal at best.
There are exceptions but that's the general run of it.

That said, regular cleaning and lubrication can keep even
midrange hub and BB bearings running for a cyclist's
lifetime. We see Record hubs regularly (mailed in for new
spokes and rims) which are running well after 40~50 years
with annual or 2-year bearing service.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I've taken apart 10 or 12 year old bike bottom brackets and the grease
is
black with dirt and wear from rollers running on bare metal.

With maintenance old fashioned open roller bottom brackets will last
forever.

Most of the real old bikes I ended up with probably never got any oil
since
leaving the shop.

Very often rusty, but advanced lubricants hide many sins. Once or twice
I've
had to adjust bottom bracket bearing on old bikes - but never had to
repair
a broken one.

A relative had a complete BB bearing failure on a very recent bike, the
spacer cage had been crushed and the shop didn't have any, so I filled the
cup with balls. AFAIK: My brother sold the bike when the relative passed
on.

If you do that again the old rule of thumb was always one ball less
than full. You put balls in the outer race, shoulder to shoulder, as
it were until it is full. Then take out one ball and assemble the
bearing.

Utter bollox as I'd expect from you.

Leaving one ball out creates a gap that the cone settles into - then the
cone will be resting the entire force on the 2 balls that are either side of
the gap.

The cup is always designed so too many balls won't fit, and too few will be
obvious.

Yup, Certainly!

Of course a great many others don't agree with you. For example:
http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...icle-section-7

But of course, the fact that probably the largest maker of bike tools
in the U.S. doesn't agree with you is no cause for alarm.

Nope, Straight Ahead! Full Speed! And just like the Titanic. Crash!

One can only speculate whether you represent Modern America? Not
overly bright, poorly educated and too stupid to research the question
before you pop up with the wrong answer.
--
cheers,

John B.

"DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH" wrote in message
...
WUHWUHWUHW WUH....

YASEE, the assembly in one too many may look as if there's a gap left over
but not when the assembly is tightened down to turn.

the minus one off full in correct form LEAVES A GAP GAP begging for...

one mo ball

Only ever had that problem on the first bearing I ever reassembled - the
balls stuck in the smear of grease in the cup looked like they fit. When I
tried to adjust the cone - it became very obvious that they didn't.