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Frame waxing



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 29th 11, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default Frame waxing

On Sunday, 26 June 2011 01:55:27 UTC+1, john B. wrote:


I think that you are attributing more to Moly-disulphide lubrication
then it deserves. The most common attribute I can find listed for it
is that it withstands high temperatures better then some other
additives. Certainly when I was working on airplanes, courtesy of the
U.S.A.F. it was commonly used as an anti-seize on jet engines.


Anti-seize also equates to an extreme pressure lubricant, exactly what is needed for a bicycle chain where plain bearings are started up under load every time the links come off the top of the rear sprocket and also when they lead on to the front sprocket. Hydrodynamic lubrication does not occur and boundary layer lubrication is the only consideration.


True it has the ability to plate surfaces which results in improved
lubrication but whether it can improve chain efficiency by an
additional 1+ percent may well be less then accurate.


The differences under racing loads are evident to the rider who can only just hang on. It may well be that for short hillclimbs and sprinting, the efficiency variation is even more obvious. Out of the saddle efforts place super extreme loads on the chain which it is not really expected to carry with efficiency, which is where special lubricants kick in.

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  #2  
Old June 30th 11, 01:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
john B.
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Posts: 2,603
Default Frame waxing

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:38:06 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On Sunday, 26 June 2011 01:55:27 UTC+1, john B. wrote:


I think that you are attributing more to Moly-disulphide lubrication
then it deserves. The most common attribute I can find listed for it
is that it withstands high temperatures better then some other
additives. Certainly when I was working on airplanes, courtesy of the
U.S.A.F. it was commonly used as an anti-seize on jet engines.


Anti-seize also equates to an extreme pressure lubricant, exactly what is needed for a bicycle chain where plain bearings are started up under load every time the links come off the top of the rear sprocket and also when they lead on to the front sprocket. Hydrodynamic lubrication does not occur and boundary layer lubrication is the only consideration.


While Anti-seize equates to a high pressure lubricant for preventing
seizing, galling and high temperatures I'm not so sure about
arbitrarily saying that it is equally good for chains. I've had some
experience in that direction and to make a short answer I've found
that as a general statement the oil companies do know what they are
doing when they compound lubricants.



True it has the ability to plate surfaces which results in improved
lubrication but whether it can improve chain efficiency by an
additional 1+ percent may well be less then accurate.


The differences under racing loads are evident to the rider who can only just hang on. It may well be that for short hillclimbs and sprinting, the efficiency variation is even more obvious. Out of the saddle efforts place super extreme loads on the chain which it is not really expected to carry with efficiency, which is where special lubricants kick in.


You may very well be correct but I would have to wonder to what extent
the human body can detect effort. In other words what is the smallest
amount of work that the body can detect. Is it a micro-watt; a
milli-watt; how much? Without that information it would be difficult
to assess the effect of various lubes.


Cheers,

John B.
  #3  
Old June 30th 11, 02:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tºm Shermªn °_°
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Posts: 413
Default Frame waxing

On 6/29/2011 7:54 PM, john B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:38:06 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On Sunday, 26 June 2011 01:55:27 UTC+1, john B. wrote:


I think that you are attributing more to Moly-disulphide lubrication
then it deserves. The most common attribute I can find listed for it
is that it withstands high temperatures better then some other
additives. Certainly when I was working on airplanes, courtesy of the
U.S.A.F. it was commonly used as an anti-seize on jet engines.


Anti-seize also equates to an extreme pressure lubricant, exactly what is needed for a bicycle chain where plain bearings are started up under load every time the links come off the top of the rear sprocket and also when they lead on to the front sprocket. Hydrodynamic lubrication does not occur and boundary layer lubrication is the only consideration.


While Anti-seize equates to a high pressure lubricant for preventing
seizing, galling and high temperatures I'm not so sure about
arbitrarily saying that it is equally good for chains. I've had some
experience in that direction and to make a short answer I've found
that as a general statement the oil companies do know what they are
doing when they compound lubricants.
[...]


On Trevor's home planet, the best lubricants are plant-oil based
home-brew concoctions.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #4  
Old June 30th 11, 01:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
john B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,603
Default Frame waxing

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:07:23 -0500, Tm Shermn _
" wrote:

On 6/29/2011 7:54 PM, john B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:38:06 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On Sunday, 26 June 2011 01:55:27 UTC+1, john B. wrote:


I think that you are attributing more to Moly-disulphide lubrication
then it deserves. The most common attribute I can find listed for it
is that it withstands high temperatures better then some other
additives. Certainly when I was working on airplanes, courtesy of the
U.S.A.F. it was commonly used as an anti-seize on jet engines.

Anti-seize also equates to an extreme pressure lubricant, exactly what is needed for a bicycle chain where plain bearings are started up under load every time the links come off the top of the rear sprocket and also when they lead on to the front sprocket. Hydrodynamic lubrication does not occur and boundary layer lubrication is the only consideration.


While Anti-seize equates to a high pressure lubricant for preventing
seizing, galling and high temperatures I'm not so sure about
arbitrarily saying that it is equally good for chains. I've had some
experience in that direction and to make a short answer I've found
that as a general statement the oil companies do know what they are
doing when they compound lubricants.
[...]


On Trevor's home planet, the best lubricants are plant-oil based
home-brew concoctions.


I worked for a while in a division of the Indonesian Petroleum
Institute's testing labs. Some pretty savvy chemists in those labs.

Cheers,

John B.
 




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