New coker unicycle handlebar / handle

mark williamson wrote:
Corbin,

I notice you're putting this on a Nimbus 36. Have you tried the T7
handle? I'm curious because your handles look to have a number of
advantages over the T7 (curved shape, much lighter and more compact,
etc).

Cheers,
Mark



Hi Mark,
The T7 has several problems for me:
1. It doesn't fit on a Scott Wallis seat base (which I have. I broke my
Death V grip handle.)
2. It requires a rail adapter, which doesn't work for short people (I'm
5'6", and my girlfriend is 5'2" -- we cut about 1.5" off her N36 frame
so the seatpost could go lower!). Steve-o also has the same problem I
do (at 5'6").
3. It seems like it uses too much steel; I was hoping I could get away
with a lighter handle. I still need to weigh my handles to find out if
I succeeded, but I'm pretty sure I use less steel than the T7. A lot of
my handle's weight is in the stiffener plate, which I could probably
shrink down a bit.

I'm also hoping to make a version of my handle that eliminates the need
for a separate KH handle.

I also just like to make things

--corbin


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corbin wrote:
Hi Mark,
The T7 has several problems for me:
...
2. It requires a rail adapter, which doesn't work for short people (I'm
5'6", and my girlfriend is 5'2" -- we cut about 1.5" off her N36 frame
so the seatpost could go lower!). Steve-o also has the same problem I
do (at 5'6")....


Errr...that's _steveyo_. (I had a Toyota pickup and peeled of the
TO..TA and it became a "YO-truck" and that's how I got nicknamed "yo".)


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steveyo

steveyo
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- a few 'uni race write-ups'
(http://home.nycap.rr.com/rduhan/uni_race_writeups/)
- muni and kokopelli uni 't-shirts, mugs and stickers'
(http://www.cafepress.com/steveyo)
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steveyo wrote:
Errr...that's _steveyo_. (I had a Toyota pickup and peeled of the
TO..TA and it became a "YO-truck" and that's how I got nicknamed "yo".)



Oops! Sorry about that! for some reason my brain tossed in the -o
instead of yo. steve-o, while a unicyclist, isn't exactly someone i'd
like to get mixed up with you . If you peel off a few characters from
your Coker, you could become steve-ok

--corbin


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I really like the curved shape of your handle; the corners on the T7
hurt when they hit me (occasionally) but they also dig into my hands
when I'm riding slightly tucked (as I prefer to do). I think a curved
handlebar would give a better range of comfortable hand positions.


corbin wrote:
Hi Mark,
The T7 has several problems for me:
1. It doesn't fit on a Scott Wallis seat base (which I have. I broke my
Death V grip handle.)




Ah.




2. It requires a rail adapter, which doesn't work for short people (I'm
5'6", and my girlfriend is 5'2" -- we cut about 1.5" off her N36 frame
so the seatpost could go lower!). Steve-o also has the same problem I
do (at 5'6").




There was a long period when I had the T7 and longish cranks on my
coker and had trouble getting the T7 to sit low enough. When dropped
-right- down with the front tilted up it was -just- OK at the time.

You might want to consider using shorter cranks if you ever need some
more slack height. If you find you like a shorter length, you gain a
bit of extra adjustability (or space for a rail adaptor) - and short
cranks can be nice in their own right.

This really depends on your preferred riding though, because if you
don't like short cranks it would be silly to have to use them just to
get a handlebar And in any case, you seem to be doing just
fine at making awesome bars yourself




3. It seems like it uses too much steel; I was hoping I could get away
with a lighter handle. I still need to weigh my handles to find out if
I succeeded, but I'm pretty sure I use less steel than the T7. A lot of
my handle's weight is in the stiffener plate, which I could probably
shrink down a bit.




I'd be surprised if you'd managed to pack more steel into that than a
T7 has The T7 is great, but it is a fairly bulky thing. Your
handles strike me as somewhat like a GB4 touring handle (in that
they're compact and close to the seat) but seemingly without the
disadvantage of needing a CF base - is that right? Do you think it'd
work with a plastic base?




I'm also hoping to make a version of my handle that eliminates the need
for a separate KH handle.




Another cool handle could be a Reeder-style muni handle that mounted
between the saddle and the seatpost - thus again avoiding the need to
have a CF base just to support the handle.

I'll be intrigued to see what you build in to eliminate the need for
the KH handle. I use the seat handle on my T7-ed uni for some stuff,
but it's awkward getting my fingers into the gap. I guess if the
handlebar incorporated a "hopping grip" of some kind that might be
better.




I also just like to make things




I'm with you there! Please post whatever you make next, it's really
cool to see.


--
mark williamson

Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
pedals!
Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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mark williamson wrote:
You might want to consider using shorter cranks if you ever need some
more slack height. If you find you like a shorter length, you gain a
bit of extra adjustability (or space for a rail adaptor) - and short
cranks can be nice in their own right.




Well -- I still have the same problem. The rail adapter won't work with
a Wallis seat base. For Louise, she is just too short at 5'2". She
can't use a rail adapter. She's used 125's and 152's. Both of us switch
back and forth a lot, depending on the riding. We use 152's for really
steep climbs (think Mt Diablo, Danville, CA), and offroad (think stuff
we previously did on muni's 2-3 years ago). Personally, I prefer to use
125's whenever I can.


mark williamson wrote:
Your handles strike me as somewhat like a GB4 touring handle (in that
they're compact and close to the seat) but seemingly without the
disadvantage of needing a CF base - is that right? Do you think it'd
work with a plastic base?




I haven't seen the GB4 touring handle; I'll have to dig up some pics of
it. The red handle I made was designed to work with the plastic bases;
the bottom bracket extends all the way to the front seatpost bolts, and
bolts into them. Without this, I am positive that the forces applied by
such a long handle would quickly snap the plastic seat base -- heck,
I've broken two of them already with a regular plastic handle! (one on
my muni, and one on my trials).

One of the reasons I want to eliminate the plastic handle is due to the
crappy way it works for steep hills. For really steep hills, I prefer
to grab the plastic handle with *both* hands and crank up the hill.
Having your hands out too far in front doesn't work as well, since the
force isn't directly in line with the crank arms.

corbin


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corbin wrote:
Well -- I still have the same problem. The rail adapter won't work with
a Wallis seat base.



Doh, sorry, forgot that bit!




For Louise, she is just too short at 5'2". She can't use a rail
adapter. She's used 125's and 152's. Both of us switch back and forth a
lot, depending on the riding. We use 152's for really steep climbs
(think Mt Diablo, Danville, CA), and offroad (think stuff we previously
did on muni's 2-3 years ago). Personally, I prefer to use 125's
whenever I can.




I've settled on 114mm cranks for now, but 125mm were more comfortable.
With 150mm cranks my legs are -just- long enough - but my main problem
on the 36" is the total lack of free seatpost space to mount lights,
reflectors, cyclometer, etc on - not a problem I had with my 29er.
That's actually one of the major advantages of having a handlebar for
me.

Have you seen the "short person's Coker frame"? Roger at UDC UK
designed it, and it's on the UDC UK site. It's like a standard coker
frame but telescopes at the legs of the frame rather than at the
seatpost. The seat attaches to a tiny seatpost stub at the top of the
frame, which presumably reduces the need for a significant length of
seat tube. You could also set the crown really close to the tyre. I
don't know how stiff it is, maybe it wouldn't be suitable for your or
your girlfriend but it might be worth knowing about.

http://tinyurl.com/ruzd




I haven't seen the GB4 touring handle; I'll have to dig up some pics of
it. The red handle I made was designed to work with the plastic bases;
the bottom bracket extends all the way to the front seatpost bolts, and
bolts into them. Without this, I am positive that the forces applied by
such a long handle would quickly snap the plastic seat base -- heck,
I've broken two of them already with a regular plastic handle! (one on
my muni, and one on my trials).




Right, that's good news then; even though I'm happy with the T7 it's
nice to see development in this area. It's frustrated me in the past
that I'd need to buy a CF base, drill it, etc just to fit a handle -
one of the things that made me delay upgrading until the T7 was
available.

The 'GB handle' (http://www.gb4mfg.com/gbhandle.html) is described
here. It has a nifty little mount (optional) for a cyclometer so that
it's visible between the horns of the handlebar. The shape is similar
to yours but it's angled, not curved. Maybe a little smaller as
well... Anyhow, it requires mounting directly to the base so you
either needed a CF base or a Miyata base so that you could add the GB
stiffener plate.

The 'Reedr Handle' (http://tinyurl.com/c2lw) is a George Barnes handle
too. pdc modified his to get support from the brake lever mount on the
KH rail adaptor, so that he could use it with a plastic base. So the
GB handle could probably use this setup as well, but it wasn't really
ideal (and, obviously, required a rail adaptor in the first place).

Both of these handles seem to have been quite popular amongst serious
riders but they're now difficult to get hold of; I don't know if George
Barnes is making uni bits anymore.




One of the reasons I want to eliminate the plastic handle is due to the
crappy way it works for steep hills. For really steep hills, I prefer
to grab the plastic handle with *both* hands and crank up the hill.
Having your hands out too far in front doesn't work as well, since the
force isn't directly in line with the crank arms.




Both hands, wow... Well I only use one hand on my plastic handle, but
even so I find it flexes when I do hops on my 29er and 36er.
Presumably that's because of all the extra weight and hence larger
forces involved. It's also annoying to have an extra handle in the way
when I've got a nice shiny metal handlebar there; it'd be good to
eliminate the plastic bar entirely.

I sometimes find I can use the handlebar horns to apply power, but it's
not as effective for either cranking hard or hopping as something
closer to the centreline of the uni.


--
mark williamson

Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
pedals!
Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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mark williamson wrote:
Doh, sorry, forgot that bit!

Have you seen the "short person's Coker frame"?




Yup, I've seen it. Cutting the seatpost on a Nimbus 36 seems sufficient
for us; you can take a lot off and still have it be strong.

I have seen the GB Handle (road) -- it turns out, I actually have one
that Nathan gave me --- you can see it in the corner of one of my
pictures - http://tinyurl.com/yp7a7j . The things I don't like about it
(some of which, you mentioned):

1. The bolt pattern is strange, and would require drilling my CF base
or Louise's plastic base.

2. Bolting to a plastic seat base could potentially break the seat base
(as you mentioned, you need a CF base)

3. It is too short! The angles don't go out far enough for comfort --
my handle is definitely a lot longer, which I think is better.

4. It can't fit a brake where I want it...

One thing I did notice is that my original "T" handle
(http://tinyurl.com/yp7a7j ) allowed me to really crank up steep things
-- it was like standing up on a bike and cranking up. It was easier
than using the plastic handle to get the right downward force.

--corbin


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corbin

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corbin wrote:
Yup, I've seen it. Cutting the seatpost on a Nimbus 36 seems sufficient
for us; you can take a lot off and still have it be strong.




That's good to know; I've been thinking about getting an N36 frame for
my Radial but I've been a bit doubtful whether I'd be able to run a
range of crank lengths.




One thing I did notice is that my original "T" handle
(http://tinyurl.com/yp7a7j ) allowed me to really crank up steep things
-- it was like standing up on a bike and cranking up. It was easier
than using the plastic handle to get the right downward force.




That's interesting; I can see why that would make a difference. Maybe
an ideal handle would combine the two somehow. Did you see mouse's 'T7
with \"drops\"' (http://tinyurl.com/2nxdt2)? He's just used an mtb
stem there; it seems to me that if you took off the front handle and
flipped the stem back (so that the "drops" became the new seat handle)
it would be like adding your T handle to a more conventional handlebar.
I think it'd work well for my purposes, except I'm not sure I have
room for a stem with all the other stuff I've stuck on there...


--
mark williamson

Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
pedals!
Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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