Eyc headlight problem

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 12:17:44 a.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/29/2021 5:02 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

snip

Hold on, Jeff, I'm sorry for the little misunderstanding. I only
linked to
Ulli Horlacher's latest work there, presented at de.rec.fahrrad on
Fri, 26
Mar 2021 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC). Actually, I do not even agree with the
concept of basing one's entire front lighting on one, single beam lamp,
however expensive and reliable it may be.

Most people in the U.S. with dynamo lights (and there aren't a lot of
them!) also have some sort of battery powered light, even just an
inexpensive USB-rechargeable light.
I very much doubt that statement arose from anywhere but your
imagination. You can't possibly have data to back it up.

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights. That's
mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use their bikes
as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't the critical
mass to form a target market for a light that's always available at the
flick of a switch plus gives far better illumination than almost all
battery lights.
That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if even that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights. Every time I hear your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think WTF? I've got SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate for night riding anywhere other than lighted streets. Its nice having the dyno when all else fails, but it is not a serious primary light on the roads and in the weather I ride. And yes, I ride with a battery "flasher" -- an L&M that pulses. It differentiates my solid beam from other solid beams, vis., cars and other bikes in two way facilities.

-- Jay Beattie.

I like a flashing mode when starting through an intersection on a main road at night when it's dark. Once through the intersection I'll put the light back on steady mode. I find the flashing (NOT strobing) light gets the attention of most drivers who are facing me. It seems to really cut down on t he number of attempted left-hooks from oncoming drivers. YMMV

I tried a dynamo light at a bike shop one dark night. At slow speeds it was totally inadequate for lighting up the road surface. I bought a good external battery pack battery powered light instead.

Cheers

On 31/3/21 3:17 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 3/30/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/29/2021 5:02 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

snip

Hold on, Jeff, I'm sorry for the little misunderstanding. I
only linked to Ulli Horlacher's latest work there, presented at
de.rec.fahrrad on Fri, 26 Mar 2021 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC).
Actually, I do not even agree with the concept of basing one's
entire front lighting on one, single beam lamp, however
expensive and reliable it may be.

Most people in the U.S. with dynamo lights (and there aren't a
lot of them!) also have some sort of battery powered light, even
just an inexpensive USB-rechargeable light.
I very much doubt that statement arose from anywhere but your
imagination. You can't possibly have data to back it up.

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights.
That's mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use
their bikes as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't
the critical mass to form a target market for a light that's always
available at the flick of a switch plus gives far better
illumination than almost all battery lights.

That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds
of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if
even that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights. Every
time I hear your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think
WTF? I've got SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate
for night riding anywhere other than lighted streets. Its nice having
the dyno when all else fails, but it is not a serious primary light
on the roads and in the weather I ride. And yes, I ride with a
battery "flasher" -- an L&M that pulses. It differentiates my solid
beam from other solid beams, vis., cars and other bikes in two way
facilities.


Every time I read your story of SP PD8 and Luxos B giving inadequate
light for night riding, I remember how well my SP PV-8 and B&M IQTec
Premium lights the road beautifully in all weather and conditions, and
how I scoffed at the people I rode with at night with their pitiful
battery lights with round beam that didn't light the road well at all.
Even worse were the people with bright lights on their helmet, who
blinded everyone around them and rarely aimed at the road ahead.


--
JS

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 1:42:58 AM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 31/3/21 3:17 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 3/30/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/29/2021 5:02 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

snip

Hold on, Jeff, I'm sorry for the little misunderstanding. I
only linked to Ulli Horlacher's latest work there, presented at
de.rec.fahrrad on Fri, 26 Mar 2021 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC).
Actually, I do not even agree with the concept of basing one's
entire front lighting on one, single beam lamp, however
expensive and reliable it may be.

Most people in the U.S. with dynamo lights (and there aren't a
lot of them!) also have some sort of battery powered light, even
just an inexpensive USB-rechargeable light.
I very much doubt that statement arose from anywhere but your
imagination. You can't possibly have data to back it up.

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights.
That's mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use
their bikes as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't
the critical mass to form a target market for a light that's always
available at the flick of a switch plus gives far better
illumination than almost all battery lights.

That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds
of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if
even that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights. Every
time I hear your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think
WTF? I've got SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate
for night riding anywhere other than lighted streets. Its nice having
the dyno when all else fails, but it is not a serious primary light
on the roads and in the weather I ride. And yes, I ride with a
battery "flasher" -- an L&M that pulses. It differentiates my solid
beam from other solid beams, vis., cars and other bikes in two way
facilities.

Every time I read your story of SP PD8 and Luxos B giving inadequate
light for night riding, I remember how well my SP PV-8 and B&M IQTec
Premium lights the road beautifully in all weather and conditions, and
how I scoffed at the people I rode with at night with their pitiful
battery lights with round beam that didn't light the road well at all.
Even worse were the people with bright lights on their helmet, who
blinded everyone around them and rarely aimed at the road ahead.

We definitely agree on helmet lights. On a rainy night, riding through the West Hills, the Luxos B is a be-seen light. Maybe your IQTec is more magical.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/30/2021 9:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights. That's
mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use their bikes
as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't the critical
mass to form a target market for a light that's always available at the
flick of a switch plus gives far better illumination than almost all
battery lights.

That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if even that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights. Every time I hear your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think WTF? I've got SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate for night riding anywhere other than lighted streets. Its nice having the dyno when all else fails, but it is not a serious primary light on the roads and in the weather I ride. And yes, I ride with a battery "flasher" -- an L&M that pulses. It differentiates my solid beam from other solid beams, vis., cars and other bikes in two way facilities.

Once again, Frank is extrapolating the region where he lives onto the
entire United States.

While the U.S. is unlikely to ever rival the Netherlands in terms of the
percentage of the population that commutes by bicycle, there are regions
of the U.S. where there is a healthy number of commuters, including
Portland and the San Francisco Bay Area; even though the percentage is
pretty low, the absolute number is pretty substantial.

The expense, the relatively low output of dynamo lights, combined with
poorer street lighting of many U.S. cities compared to European cities,
and the lack (other than one) of dynamo headlights with a DRL flash
mode, are reasons why dynamo lights are not popular in the U.S..

In my area a lot of the popular bicycle routes are unlit because they
are multi-use trails along waterways and the County often doesn't allow
lighting because it can disturb wildlife. The speeds on these trails are
often low because of a lot of twists and turns so the output of a dynamo
light, already low, is even less effective.

In Europe, a lot of bicycles come from the factory with dynamo wheels
which greatly reduces the cost to the end-user. After-market accessories
will typically cost six times as much to buy versus the extra cost of
them being standard features from the factory, but for dynamo lighting
it's even worse because a dynamo hub adds only about $10 to the cost of
a bicycle, but buying an after-market dynamo wheel costs upwards of $150.

Frank also needs to understand that when dynamo lights were more popular
in the U.S. (with the bottle generators), this was a time before
rechargeable Li-Ion batteries and before high-output LEDs.

Now personally, I have dynamo wheels on several bicycles in our fleet,
and a dynamo headlights that is usually supplemented with some sort of
battery powered headlight. It's nice to be able to jump on and just ride
without worrying about a battery being charged or how long the battery
will last, and for around town, on well-lit familiar roads, it's
adequate to use only a dynamo light.

BTW, I'm very surprised that you said one out of thirty. Around here
it's probably one out of two hundred.

James wrote:
On 31/3/21 3:17 pm, jbeattie wrote:
On March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:

Most people in the U.S. with dynamo lights (and there aren't a
lot of them!)

So 85% of US bicycle "mechanics" still assume a generator hub is defective
when "notchy"?

also have some sort of battery powered light, even
just an inexpensive USB-rechargeable light.

I very much doubt that statement arose from anywhere but your
imagination. You can't possibly have data to back it up.

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights.
That's mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use
their bikes as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't
the critical mass to form a target market for a light that's always
available at the flick of a switch plus gives far better
illumination than almost all battery lights.

Speaking of market barriers of one or the other sort ... any word from PJW
on how your Eyc lamp matter will proceed?

That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds
of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if
even that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights.

Ever spotted one of these, on the road?
https://www.sinewavecycles.com/collections/lighting/products/sinewave-cycles-beacon

Every time I read your story of SP PD8 and Luxos B giving inadequate
light for night riding, I remember how well my SP PV-8 and B&M IQTec
Premium lights the road beautifully in all weather and conditions, and
how I scoffed at the people I rode with at night with their pitiful
battery lights with round beam that didn't light the road well at all.

Had Jay not shot his night vision by decades of chasing brightly flashing
ambulances, he could scoff at that T-shape artifact in your Cyo-Premium beam!
http://velo.dyndns.eu/bilder/vergleich2014.jpg


--
Battery-powered sloths beware!
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm?s_cid=mm7010e4_w#F1_down

On 3/31/2021 12:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/29/2021 5:02 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

snip

Hold on, Jeff, I'm sorry for the little misunderstanding. I only
linked to
Ulli Horlacher's latest work there, presented at de.rec.fahrrad on
Fri, 26
Mar 2021 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC). Actually, I do not even agree with the
concept of basing one's entire front lighting on one, single beam lamp,
however expensive and reliable it may be.

Most people in the U.S. with dynamo lights (and there aren't a lot of
them!) also have some sort of battery powered light, even just an
inexpensive USB-rechargeable light.
I very much doubt that statement arose from anywhere but your
imagination. You can't possibly have data to back it up.

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights. That's
mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use their bikes
as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't the critical
mass to form a target market for a light that's always available at the
flick of a switch plus gives far better illumination than almost all
battery lights.

That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if even that.

You live in the bike commuting capitol of the U.S., but the total number
of your commuters is still minuscule compared to the number of U.S.
bicyclists. A company thinking about "What shall we market?" still looks
on bike commuters, justifiably, as a tiny niche market. As a result,
most cyclists never see a dyno system for sale.

People prefer brighter, battery powered lights.

People "prefer" what they are told to buy, which is what's on top of the
counter when they wander into a bike shop. If shops had dyno systems
available and explained their advantages, more Portlanders would buy them.

Every time I hear your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think WTF? I've got SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate for night riding anywhere other than lighted streets.

I can't explain that (and with you'd trade your system for my Oculus). I
don't know if your problem is electrical (something wrong with the
light), age-related vision problems (but I'm older than you) or just
mis-perception, similar to the one in 50 motorists on yesterday's
freeway drive who chose to blind everyone else by running their high beams.

Again, on the ride where the Eyc gave trouble my friend had his battery
light off most of the way because, as he said, it adds nothing to mine.
Yet its what he uses when he does the ride solo. Now most (not all) of
that ride is on a quiet MUP, but a dark MUP is pretty much the opposite
of your "lighted streets."

Part of your mis-perception might be ever-increasing expectations. In my
view we've had a lot of that in bicycling, where a bike is "too heavy"
if it's 20 pounds, where 9 rear cogs are suddenly way too few, where
actually having to move a mechanical lever makes shifting too difficult,
etc. You seem to have bought into the myth that anything under 250
lumens is too dim.

Its nice having the dyno when all else fails, but it is not a serious primary light on the roads and in the weather I ride.

I've talked about your wet night riding before, but IIRC you've never
responded to the fact that on a really wet road, a motorist can't even
see his car's headlights on the road. It's an easy to understand optical
phenomenon, and it doesn't mean that you can't see obstacles. Adding
excess lumens to that problem only bounces more down the road into the
eyes of other road users.

And yes, I ride with a battery "flasher" -- an L&M that pulses. It differentiates my solid beam from other solid beams, vis., cars and other bikes in two way facilities.

Did you really have problems with that before you got a pulsing beam? I
don't ride at night as much as when I was commuting, but I still have
motorists waiting inordinate amounts of time to let me pass. I've never
had a remotely close call.

I wonder if you're experiencing a combination of "safety inflation" plus
placebo effect. As in "All I know is, I've had far fewer flat tires
since I bought my St. Christopher's medal! I'll never ride without it!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/31/2021 12:19 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:


Speaking of market barriers of one or the other sort ... any word from PJW
on how your Eyc lamp matter will proceed?


No word yet. :-(


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/31/2021 9:19 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

snip

Ever spotted one of these, on the road?
https://www.sinewavecycles.com/collections/lighting/products/sinewave-cycles-beacon

That is an ideal solution. Albeit expensive.

A buck regulator with AC input and 5V output could be used to keep a
battery powered lamp charged from a dynamo, and operate the lamp, at
least at lower lumens, solely from the dynamo. Those switching buck
regulator modules cost less than $3.

On 3/31/2021 1:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 12:17:44 a.m. UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2021 2:59 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/29/2021 5:02 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

snip

Hold on, Jeff, I'm sorry for the little misunderstanding. I only
linked to
Ulli Horlacher's latest work there, presented at de.rec.fahrrad on
Fri, 26
Mar 2021 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC). Actually, I do not even agree with the
concept of basing one's entire front lighting on one, single beam lamp,
however expensive and reliable it may be.

Most people in the U.S. with dynamo lights (and there aren't a lot of
them!) also have some sort of battery powered light, even just an
inexpensive USB-rechargeable light.
I very much doubt that statement arose from anywhere but your
imagination. You can't possibly have data to back it up.

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights. That's
mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use their bikes
as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't the critical
mass to form a target market for a light that's always available at the
flick of a switch plus gives far better illumination than almost all
battery lights.
That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds of commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if even that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights. Every time I hear your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think WTF? I've got SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate for night riding anywhere other than lighted streets. Its nice having the dyno when all else fails, but it is not a serious primary light on the roads and in the weather I ride. And yes, I ride with a battery "flasher" -- an L&M that pulses. It differentiates my solid beam from other solid beams, vis., cars and other bikes in two way facilities.

-- Jay Beattie.

I like a flashing mode when starting through an intersection on a main road at night when it's dark. Once through the intersection I'll put the light back on steady mode. I find the flashing (NOT strobing) light gets the attention of most drivers who are facing me. It seems to really cut down on t he number of attempted left-hooks from oncoming drivers. YMMV

I tried a dynamo light at a bike shop one dark night. At slow speeds it was totally inadequate for lighting up the road surface. I bought a good external battery pack battery powered light instead.

I started using a dyno light in about 1977, an all-in-one Soubitez I
described here, with a vacuum bulb. As I've said, it was inadequate for
dark roads at anything over low speed. But it was fine for being seen on
city streets - and I emphasize, I know that not only by motorist
behavior, but because I had my family drive by to observe and take notes.

My upgrade was the Sanyo roller dyno that James used until recently. Its
"Krypton" headlight bulb seemed better, but its optics were only
slightly better. It was fine for being seen, OK for lighting the road at
moderate speed, but dim at very low speeds - for example, making my way
in a campground's gravel parking lot.

But a halogen headlamp with better optics (a Union) made that set fine
for my uses, which included city and suburb commuting, country roads,
dark MUPs and neighborhood streets. At that stage and earlier I played
around with battery lights others recommended - hopping up small lights
with hotter bulbs, building MR based lights with external rechargeable
batteries, and even trying one of Scharf's LED flashlights. But while
some of those solutions certainly pumped out more lumens, for me they
were not worth the hassle of looking after batteries, remembering to
bring lights along, keeping them secure etc. And honestly, the LED
flashlight was terrible. If focused tightly ts hot spot ruined night
vision, but if focused wider it was too dim.

When I could buy a B&M LED headlight powered by a dyno, all that
experimenting became irrelevant. I considered the problem solved. I
think any B&M dyno light above the (discontinued?) Lyt gives a luxurious
amount of light. I've had no more problems in any riding condition than
I've had with my car's headlights.

I mention this because if Sir Ridesalot tried my 1980 dyno system, he'd
surely say it was inadequate at low speeds for lighting up the road
surface. But the systems I use today are excellent at anything over a
walking pace.

--
- Frank Krygowski

sms wrote:
On 3/30/2021 9:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:29:29 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

snip

It's true there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists with dyno lights. That's
mainly because there aren't a lot of U.S. cyclists who use their bikes
as anything but toys and exercise machines. There isn't the critical
mass to form a target market for a light that's always available at the
flick of a switch plus gives far better illumination than almost all
battery lights.

That's total nonsense. Pre-pandemic, I rode with dozens or hundreds of
commuters every day, probably one out of thirty had a dyno -- if even
that. People prefer brighter, battery powered lights. Every time I hear
your story of cohorts admiring your bright light, I think WTF? I've got
SP PD8 dyno hub driving a Luxos B, and its inadequate for night riding
anywhere other than lighted streets. Its nice having the dyno when all
else fails, but it is not a serious primary light on the roads and in
the weather I ride. And yes, I ride with a battery "flasher" -- an L&M
that pulses. It differentiates my solid beam from other solid beams,
vis., cars and other bikes in two way facilities.

Once again, Frank is extrapolating the region where he lives onto the
entire United States.

While the U.S. is unlikely to ever rival the Netherlands in terms of the
percentage of the population that commutes by bicycle, there are regions
of the U.S. where there is a healthy number of commuters, including
Portland and the San Francisco Bay Area; even though the percentage is
pretty low, the absolute number is pretty substantial.

The expense, the relatively low output of dynamo lights, combined with
poorer street lighting of many U.S. cities compared to European cities,
and the lack (other than one) of dynamo headlights with a DRL flash
mode, are reasons why dynamo lights are not popular in the U.S..

In my area a lot of the popular bicycle routes are unlit because they
are multi-use trails along waterways and the County often doesn't allow
lighting because it can disturb wildlife. The speeds on these trails are
often low because of a lot of twists and turns so the output of a dynamo
light, already low, is even less effective.

In Europe, a lot of bicycles come from the factory with dynamo wheels
which greatly reduces the cost to the end-user. After-market accessories
will typically cost six times as much to buy versus the extra cost of
them being standard features from the factory, but for dynamo lighting
it's even worse because a dynamo hub adds only about $10 to the cost of
a bicycle, but buying an after-market dynamo wheel costs upwards of $150.

Frank also needs to understand that when dynamo lights were more popular
in the U.S. (with the bottle generators), this was a time before
rechargeable Li-Ion batteries and before high-output LEDs.

In many ways there time has gone, in that folks want bright lights, and
though the LED are fine as are the lenses, no getting away from the fact
that batteries can and do push out lot more power, and the gap is only
likely to widen.

Now personally, I have dynamo wheels on several bicycles in our fleet,
and a dynamo headlights that is usually supplemented with some sort of
battery powered headlight. It's nice to be able to jump on and just ride
without worrying about a battery being charged or how long the battery
will last, and for around town, on well-lit familiar roads, it's
adequate to use only a dynamo light.

I have one of the exposure lights with a remote switch, has a nice gentle
low, with decent high mode, for the bits that need it, will do 24hrs or
something like that on low, and few hrs on high, but it has runtime plus
lights at rear, so very obvious but since it’s mostly in low, it lasts over
a week in the summer, few days in winter.

Plus easy to swap to the Gravel bike for some night time riding, though
lacks the power for the MTB trails really.

BTW, I'm very surprised that you said one out of thirty. Around here
it's probably one out of two hundred.

I only see Dynamos fitted to cargo bikes, which I see maybe once a week or
so in leafy edge of London.

Roger Merriman