new set of wheels or a new bike

Good morning, i brought my bicycle for it's annual maintenance at my local
bike builder http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/
The bike is 15 years old, mounted on chorus with a pair of mavic MA-4 wheels
on a steel frame. It weigh 25 pounds. A
while back i upgraded the shifting sytem to ergopower. I planning on
retiring in the new year and wanted either
upgrade my bicycle or have an other one build. The technician told me that
when choosing a bicycle, the thing to
look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame. It got me thinking that
maybe i could upgrade my current bicycle set of wheels to Campi Neutron or
Eurus.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference with my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

Would a new carbon fiber crank and fork also help?

Is it better to build a new bike from scratch?

I was considering a new titanium frame on centaur groupset with proton or
zonda wheels. The drawback
is that it is expensive and probably too much of a bike for me. I only
ride to get my aerobic going and i do
not do any racing. I've eliminated carbon fiber and aluminium/carbon frame
since they cant be repair in case
of defect or crash. My other option is a steel frame but i already have
one. Although a new steel frame would
be lighter than the one i ride. Thanks for your time.

Roland Aubin wrote:
when choosing a bicycle, the thing to
look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame.

It's very difficult to make a blanket ranking like that... but if it
was me, I'd put the cranks last, not first.

maybe i could upgrade my current bicycle set of wheels to Campi Neutron or
Eurus.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference with my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

Would a new carbon fiber crank and fork also help?

Is it better to build a new bike from scratch?

It is good to be honest with what you are really trying to achieve. If
your present bike is in good condition, and you are just riding around
occasionally, then there is no reason to change a thing... unless you
simply want something new or something to do... and you have money to
spend. There is no shame in wanting something new... plenty of us
suffer from this affliction repeatedly. You could "upgrade" your old
bike (for no good reason)... but is that what you really want to do?

So... I'm going to assume that you'd like something new. Do you want
the ultimate in "performance", even if it is very expensive and
fragile? Or, would you favor fairly normal high-quality equipment that
is a good value and will last? Be honest!

I'll make another assumption that it is the later. A straight-guage
titanium frame is an excellent choice in my opinion... I have one
myself. A Habanero (for instance)is probably the best value you will
find in a new Ti frame.

The Centaur group is also an excellent choice. The cranks are fine
also, but you may want to go with a compact crank or triple if there
are hills around your area.

Fork? I don't think it matters much... get whatever suits your fancy.
I'd avoid a fork with a carbon steerer, though. For the bars, stem, and
seatpost... use mid quaility aluminum parts... usually well made and
heavy enough to last.

For the wheels, I would recommend using the excellent Centaur hubs and
having a good builder make (or do it yourself if you are inclined) a
set with a deep aluminum rim (Velocity Deeps or similar) and plenty
(28/32 or more if you are heavy) of butted oval spokes (Wheelsmith
AE15s, or Sapim CXrays if you can afford them). They won't be super
light wheels but they will be durable and fast... aero is much more
important than weight anywhere but on a steep hill.

Roland Aubin wrote:
Good morning, i brought my bicycle for it's annual maintenance at my local
bike builder http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/
The bike is 15 years old, mounted on chorus with a pair of mavic MA-4 wheels
on a steel frame. It weigh 25 pounds. A
while back i upgraded the shifting sytem to ergopower. I planning on
retiring in the new year and wanted either
upgrade my bicycle or have an other one build. The technician told me that
when choosing a bicycle, the thing to
look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame. It got me thinking that
maybe i could upgrade my current bicycle set of wheels to Campi Neutron or
Eurus.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference with my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

Would a new carbon fiber crank and fork also help?

Is it better to build a new bike from scratch?

I was considering a new titanium frame on centaur groupset with proton or
zonda wheels. The drawback
is that it is expensive and probably too much of a bike for me. I only
ride to get my aerobic going and i do
not do any racing. I've eliminated carbon fiber and aluminium/carbon frame
since they cant be repair in case
of defect or crash. My other option is a steel frame but i already have
one. Although a new steel frame would
be lighter than the one i ride. Thanks for your time.

If you are using your bike to get a workout, your old Marinoni is a
perfect bike for that. You do not need to change anything. If the bike
is in good shape and well maintained keep riding it and have fun.
Regarding the wheels that you are thinking of, neither is a good idea.
Stick to wheels with 32 to 36 spokes that are built for you. If your
old wheels are holding, keep riding them. If the rims are damaged, you
may be able to have a bike shop replace the rims.

Andres

Roland Aubin wrote:
Good morning, i brought my bicycle for it's annual maintenance at my local
bike builder http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/
The bike is 15 years old, mounted on chorus with a pair of mavic MA-4 wheels
on a steel frame. It weigh 25 pounds. A
while back i upgraded the shifting sytem to ergopower. I planning on
retiring in the new year and wanted either
upgrade my bicycle or have an other one build. The technician told me that
when choosing a bicycle, the thing to
look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame.

Sorry, he has it backwards. The MOST impotant part of the bike is the
frame, the heart of the bicycle. Toughest to 'upgrade', the one that
says the bike fits or not. ALL else is secondary, some by a lot. Crank
is way down on the list, pedal choice has a lot to do with fit but the
frame is the most important thing.

It got me thinking that
maybe i could upgrade my current bicycle set of wheels to Campi Neutron or
Eurus.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference with my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

What would these overly marketed, very unique parted, same weighted as
a normal wheelset do for ytou? What question would it answer, what
problem would it solve. The 50-100 grams saved, vs the price wouldn't
do a thing for your cycling performance.


Would a new carbon fiber crank and fork also help?

Is it better to build a new bike from scratch?

I was considering a new titanium frame on centaur groupset with proton or
zonda wheels. The drawback
is that it is expensive and probably too much of a bike for me. I only
ride to get my aerobic going and i do
not do any racing.

You seem to be 'lusting' after something new. Save your money on the
bicycle, Spend it on a good coach, a massage therapist, a dietician,
get a really extensive bike fit. The bicycle is the smallest part of
the equation in terms of rider's performance. Weight savings of say 5
pounds(and thousands of dollarts) would not make you significant;y
faster or stronger. You would score points at the coffee shop ort with
the car next to you if it's on the roof, but like Eddy said when asked
about how to become a better cyclist, " ride lots"....

I've eliminated carbon fiber and aluminium/carbon frame
since they cant be repair in case
of defect or crash. My other option is a steel frame but i already have
one. Although a new steel frame would
be lighter than the one i ride. Thanks for your time.

Roland Aubin wrote:
Good morning, i brought my bicycle for it's annual maintenance at my local
bike builder http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/
The bike is 15 years old, mounted on chorus with a pair of mavic MA-4 wheels
on a steel frame. It weigh 25 p ounds. A
while back i upgraded the shifting sytem to ergopower.

I planning on
retiring in the new year and wanted either
upgrade my bicycle or have an other one build.

It would help if you could explain exactly what you find unsatisfactory
or defective with your present bicycle, that spurs you to require a new
one. Then we would be better able to evaluate your options. As it
stands, you have described an excellent, high quality bicycle in good
condition that would be the envy of many.


The technician told me that
when choosing a bicycle, the thing to
look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame.

False. The first is the fit; the second is the saddle; the third is the
tires and wheels. But since you are buying a whole bicycle and not a
collection of parts one at a time, you'll want to get the whole thing
right anyway.

It got me thinking that
maybe i could upgrade my current bicycle set of wheels to Campi Neutron or
Eurus.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference w ith my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

Yes, the wheels you describe would be significantly less reliable and
impossible to maintain with normal tools, while providing no real
functional benefit. The rim sections are not deep and so the only aero
advantage is from fewer spokes. No gold medal for you in Beijing,
sorry!

http://www.cbike.com/campy.htm
Campagnolo Neutron:
"The special section of the rim absorbs jolts from an uneven road
surface and provides ideal comfort during long-distance competitions.
[...]"

That description is laughable, and can be translated as: you are paying
all that money for a simple box-section rim? Hint: you already have
ideal box-section rims.


Would a new carbon fiber crank and fork also help?

Help to empty your wallet. That is all.

one. Although a new steel frame would
be lighter than the one i ride.

Not significantly. The only reason you need a lighter bicycle is if you
are carrying it up and down stairs or are having trouble hoisting it
onto your roof rack. In that case spend a few thousand dollars for an
unreliable one weighing about 15-17 pounds. Or get a rear car rack..

Roland Aubin wrote:
I planning on
retiring in the new year and wanted either
upgrade my bicycle or have an other one build.

I only
ride to get my aerobic going and i do
not do any racing.

I forgot the most important bit of advice. For your retirement, save
the thousands of dollars you were thinking of wasting, and instead make
good use of it by spending it on a month-long bicycle tour of France
and Italy. That way you'll have something valuable that will last a
lifetime, instead of a mechanical headache and a constant pain in the
wallet that only get bigger with time.

With that budget, at the end of the trip you could still come back with
money to spare.~

Dans le message de
ups.com,
Ron Ruff a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

For the wheels, I would recommend using the excellent Centaur hubs and
having a good builder make (or do it yourself if you are inclined) a
set with a deep aluminum rim (Velocity Deeps or similar) and plenty
(28/32 or more if you are heavy)

Is there a special 28 hole drilling of Centaur hubs for the US ?
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 01:44:46 -0500, "Roland Aubin"
wrote:

look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame. It got me thinking that

I'd rank that frame, wheels, group (which typically includes the crank),
everything else, and pedals dead last. Since new bikes come without
pedals, so you're getting the ones you want to put on it, period.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference with my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

Depends what you want. It'll look cool, if you like that sort of thing.
The weight/aero difference might conceivably get you infinitesimally
faster, but it won't be very significant.

If I were you, I think I'd just upgrade your current bike. If the stuff
that's on the bike is in good condition, maybe just a rebuild from scratch
-- take everything off, clean it, and reinstall all the components looking
sparkly, with fresh cables/housing/handlebar tape etc. If it's in less
good condition, so that you might want to upgrade with a whole new
groupset (and if your rear wheel is campy 8, that'd mean a change to campy
9/10), a whole new bike starts to be financially extremely attractive.
*Especially* if you're not going to do the work yourself, but farm it out
to your LBS.

Jasper

In article ,
"Roland Aubin" wrote:

Good morning, i brought my bicycle for it's annual maintenance at my local
bike builder http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/
The bike is 15 years old, mounted on chorus with a pair of mavic MA-4 wheels
on a steel frame. It weigh 25 pounds. A
while back i upgraded the shifting sytem to ergopower. I planning on
retiring in the new year and wanted either
upgrade my bicycle or have an other one build. The technician told me that
when choosing a bicycle, the thing to
look for are in order of importance: the crank/pedal, wheels, groupset and
finaly the frame. It got me thinking that
maybe i could upgrade my current bicycle set of wheels to Campi Neutron or
Eurus.

Would a new set of wheels make a difference with my current setup or would
it be a waste of money?

Would a new carbon fiber crank and fork also help?

Is it better to build a new bike from scratch?

I was considering a new titanium frame on centaur groupset with proton or
zonda wheels. The drawback
is that it is expensive and probably too much of a bike for me. I only
ride to get my aerobic going and i do
not do any racing. I've eliminated carbon fiber and aluminium/carbon frame
since they cant be repair in case
of defect or crash. My other option is a steel frame but i already have
one. Although a new steel frame would
be lighter than the one i ride. Thanks for your time.

Hi Roland: let me pile on with a bit more advice. First, I'm a bike
racer, so yes, I own a pair of relatively light, relatively aero wheels.
I hardly ever ride them except on race days.

The question here is what constitutes "making a difference." If you have
a 15-year-old Marinoni, well, you could probably manage to lose about 5
pounds off the total bike, and maybe 2 pounds off the frame if you
upgraded to something expensive. But you don't race!

Unless you're having trouble staying with your preferred group ride,
don't change a thing. There's a guy in our club who won a Cat 3 crit
this year racing the same steel KHS he has had since the mid-80s.

Here's what I see as real live advantages of changing stuff on your bike:

-a Ti bike means it won't ever rust, and they usually are pretty
real-world tough.

-before you discount carbon fibre, I once wryly noted that not only are
the frames repairable, it's the only kind of frame that can be repaired
using a kit you could easily carry on a loaded touring bicycle. In
practice, I think that frame repair is a red herring for all but the
priciest frames: by the time you get a pro to replace a tube and repaint
the bike, you're probably into the repair for a couple hundred dollars.
You can buy 1500g frames online for less than that.

-Your bike probably has horizontal dropouts, so a newer frame is
probably going to mean you get vertical dropouts, which is a genuine
improvement in rear wheel retention.

Like other posters, I would consider keeping the current bike and
spending such a budget on one of the following items:

-a great cycling trip
-a new type of bike: depending on your proximity to the indoor velodrome
at London, ON, I would recommend buying a track bike.
-training, coaching, or performance analysis
-If you're into gadgetry, HRM bike computers and power meters that can
download data to your computer are cool, and range in price from about
$200 to $1500.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

A Habanero (for instance)is probably the best value you will
find in a new Ti frame.

Not sure I would agree with that statement. Colorado Cyclist is
selling their Douglas titanium frames for $1099. This price includes
Reynolds all carbon Ouzo Pro fork. Plus $28 for delivery. Habanero
sells their standard tube titanium frame for $795 plus $302 for the
Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork. Plus $40 shipping. Their Team bike with the
oversized downtube better matches the Douglas frame downtube. Its
$895. Colorado Cyclist also has 2005 Litespeed Tuscany frames and
forks for $1450 plus $28 shipping. Limited sizes. Colorado Cyclist
has the Litespeed Firenze frame and Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork for $999.
Plus $28 shipping. The Firenze tubing size better matches the Habanero
standard $795 frame. So the comparison would be $1027 for Litespeed
Firenze Reynolds Ouzo Pro from Colorado Cyclist to $1137 for Habanero
standard frame and Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork and shipping. Lifetime
wrranty on the Litespeed frames. 5 year warranty on the Douglas
frames. 5 year warranty on the Habanero frames.


For the original question asker, it sounds like you want a new bike.
Get it. Start saving your pennies until you can afford it if that is a
consideration. Don't upgrade. Upgrading wheels, cranks, shifters,
etc. tells me you really want a new bike. So save the money and
effort, and just get the new bike from the beginning. Its great to
have several bikes. When one is being worked on, you can ride the
other one. Or the bikes can be setup for different purposes/uses. One
has a triple and the other a double. One has a rack and the other does
not. One has fenders. Etc.

As for your specific questions about wheels, no they don't make any
difference or improvement. Neither do the cranks. Although the number
of teeth on your rings and sprockets is important for getting up hills.
Pedals are very important of course for comfort. Saddle is very
important. Shifters are very important for comfort since that is what
you hang on to when riding. And the shifters are one of the main
interactions between you and the bike. Fork is immaterial too.

I have no idea what you mean by too much bike for me. If you ride the
bike, then its just right for you. Even if you don't ride the bike but
get pleasure from simply owning it, then its right for you.

As for discounting frame materials because they are crash worthy or can
be repaired, not worth much consideration. How many times have you
repaired your Marinoni in 15 years? I have a Waterford lugged steel
frame, similar to your Marinoni. It would cost hundreds to replace one
tube/lug. And hundreds to repaint it. Repairing the frame could
easily be 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a new frame. I'm not sure I would
repair the frame or not if it were wrecked that badly. I would
probably just get a complete new Waterford.