#121
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TdF and recumbents
Carl Sundquist wrote:
"Jon Bendtsen" wrote in message ... Carl Sundquist wrote: "Jon Bendtsen" wrote in message ... What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? I think it was 29.76 Miles, i saw a youtube of it today. Which seems a little slower than the UCI hour record, but maybe that is because the rider is not the same? Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. I'd say that the unfaired recumbent hour record is pretty darn remarkable. Did any noteworthy rider do it? I dont know, look him up I looked on the IHPVA site before I asked the question. The only (recognized) hour record that looks to possibly be an unfaired recumbent was set in 1938 at 31.4 mph. Quite a remarkable time if that was the case. Help me out here a little bit. This is were i looked. http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wrra/records.asp JonB Thanks. I did a quick search on Sean Costin. It's clear that he loves building HPV/recumbents and likely spends more time tinkering with them than trying to maximize his fitness. He could be rocket scientist: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/costin/seancostin.htm. Nothing wrong with that at all and as I said, pretty darn remarkable. And judging from the looks, given equal wattage from riders his would be able to go 20 % faster than an upright (on a flat, wind protected surface ;-) Sean's Monkey Hand bicycle had him almost completely flat on his back. I do recall him riding it on the Udder Century invitational ride a few years back before getting the Forte': http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/costin/forte_bike.htm. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia “Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken / She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.” |
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#122
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TdF and recumbents
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message ... Carl Sundquist wrote: "Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: On Jul 29, 7:15 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote: There is no recumbent that is 20% faster than an upright on the flats everything else being equal. At best, it is possible that a recumbent will be only ever so slightly faster than an upright on the flats, but even that is debatable. What is not debatable is how freaking slow they are climbing hills, even small hills. Case closed as far as I am concerned. I guess that sound is the my point whizzing over you head Ed was never one to let things like mere facts confuse him... However, if he bothered to look at the UCI hour record and the IHPVA hour record he'd find a lot more than 20% difference. Pete. Now _that's_ mixing apples and oranges. What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? Sean Costin rode 47.89 km in one hour on an unfaired Velokraft NoCom, which is not too far off the 49.431 km Merckx hour or the UCI legal bicycle record of Ondřej Sosenka at 49.70 km. See my other post. The non-UCI legal upright hour record is by Chris Boardman at 56.375 km, on a bicycle that could not be safely ridden on the street, unlike the NoCom, which several people ride on the roads, including urban and suburban Chicagoland. People actually ride those things on the street? What's the visibility like, either seeing or being seen? How does it handle potholes? Does it have a suspension? For all the advocates of recumbents regarding comfort, is this the vehicle they have in mind? I'm not anti recumbent (would have loved to have had a Counterpoint Opus/ViewPoint) but without personally trying this rig, I question it's daily practicality. The Obree Superman style bike, while a step further than an aerobar setup, was specifically designed to operate on a track. But there is no reason the same handlebar setup couldn't have been applied to a road bicycle. While I don't think I would probably recommend riding the Superman handlebar setup within The Loop areas, I think it would be no less safe than triathletes riding in their aerobar positions in suburban Chicagoland. Needless to say, the UCI records were set by world class cyclists. I have met Sean and I doubt he would be insulted if I said while he is one of the better amateur recumbent racers in the US, he is not a world class rider. So, with equal riders, we are indeed comparing apples and oranges. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia “Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken / She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.” |
#123
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TdF and recumbents
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message ... Edward Dolan wrote: [...] All this blather about racing is for the birds. A true cyclist will want to do extended tours. An organized group tour is best because it is a royal pain in the ass to have to carry your own camping gear on a bike. Racing discussion may be for the birds [1], but it is the topic of this thread. The topic has wandered thanks to me. That is what I am here for. For heaven's sakes, take a couple of weeks off and do a bike tour. I think you would enjoy GRABAAWR in Wisconsin. That is in early July. There is one in North Dakota, CANDISC, that takes place in early August. If you really want to do an easy bike tour, there is one in Ohio known as GOBA in early June that is super friendly. I have done all of these rides many times and I have always enjoyed them immensely. Well, I will be eligible for full retirement in 32 years. So work yourself to death. Who cares? Trust me on this, life is too god damn short to spend all of it working at a freaking job. Take some time off and do something that you think you would really enjoy - like bike touring! Some of my co-workers were just given permanent time off from their jobs. Not a good situation, unless like Dolan you can live off the fruits of your parent's labors. **** it! Just get another job. You do not have a proper contempt for work, something I was born with. Tom Sherman has apparently been able to fit cycling into his life (just barely), but that should only be the beginning. He is single, a civil engineer with a good job, yet he can't manage a measly 2 week vacation. Just how freaking stupid can one get! Instead, he has elected to fritter his life away on nonsense as if his work amounts to anything. Folks, you can lead an ass to water, but you can't make it drink. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#124
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TdF and recumbents
"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message ... What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? Sean Costin rode 47.89 km in one hour on an unfaired Velokraft NoCom, which is not too far off the 49.431 km Merckx hour or the UCI legal bicycle record of Ondřej Sosenka at 49.70 km. BTW, Costin's flying 200 M time is very impressive, especially at Northbrook. |
#125
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TdF and recumbents
Carl Sundquist wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message ... Carl Sundquist wrote: "Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: On Jul 29, 7:15 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote: There is no recumbent that is 20% faster than an upright on the flats everything else being equal. At best, it is possible that a recumbent will be only ever so slightly faster than an upright on the flats, but even that is debatable. What is not debatable is how freaking slow they are climbing hills, even small hills. Case closed as far as I am concerned. I guess that sound is the my point whizzing over you head Ed was never one to let things like mere facts confuse him... However, if he bothered to look at the UCI hour record and the IHPVA hour record he'd find a lot more than 20% difference. Pete. Now _that's_ mixing apples and oranges. What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? Sean Costin rode 47.89 km in one hour on an unfaired Velokraft NoCom, which is not too far off the 49.431 km Merckx hour or the UCI legal bicycle record of Ondřej Sosenka at 49.70 km. See my other post. The non-UCI legal upright hour record is by Chris Boardman at 56.375 km, on a bicycle that could not be safely ridden on the street, unlike the NoCom, which several people ride on the roads, including urban and suburban Chicagoland. People actually ride those things on the street? What's the visibility like, either seeing or being seen? How does it handle potholes? Does it have a suspension? While the NoCom is far from an all-around bike due to the compromises made in other areas to maximize performance, it can be ridden on the street. For decent performance with greater comfort, there is always the practical lowracer such as the Earth Cycles Sunset: http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1939602865/. Unfortunately only 20 were made, and no, neither of mine is for sale. A bike along the lines of the Challenge Taifun would be both practical and fast (and available): http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=taifun. For all the advocates of recumbents regarding comfort, is this the vehicle they have in mind? I'm not anti recumbent (would have loved to have had a Counterpoint Opus/ViewPoint) but without personally trying this rig, I question it's daily practicality. The Obree Superman style bike, while a step further than an aerobar setup, was specifically designed to operate on a track. But there is no reason the same handlebar setup couldn't have been applied to a road bicycle. While I don't think I would probably recommend riding the Superman handlebar setup within The Loop areas, I think it would be no less safe than triathletes riding in their aerobar positions in suburban Chicagoland. The Obree or "Superman" position rider better have well developed neck muscles if he/she wants to keep an eye on the road ahead: http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/MultimediaFiles/20061209_REV15_OBREE.JPG. I have not ridden such a bike, but the large amount of "tiller" could make for odd handling. Are not aerobars forbidden and/or discouraged for any type of group riding? I believe that a lot more people can tolerate being reclined on a lowracer (like sitting on a lawn chair) than the severe tuck of the Obree position. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia “Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken / She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.” |
#126
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TdF and recumbents
Carl Sundquist wrote:
"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message ... What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? Sean Costin rode 47.89 km in one hour on an unfaired Velokraft NoCom, which is not too far off the 49.431 km Merckx hour or the UCI legal bicycle record of Ondřej Sosenka at 49.70 km. BTW, Costin's flying 200 M time is very impressive, especially at Northbrook. Sean was the winner of the 200 meter sprint at the 1999 IHPVA World Championship event. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia “Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken / She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.” |
#127
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TdF and recumbents
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message ... While the NoCom is far from an all-around bike due to the compromises made in other areas to maximize performance, it can be ridden on the street. Can we agree that it is not practical for the street (neither is a Superman handlebar upright)? A bike along the lines of the Challenge Taifun would be both practical and fast (and available): http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=taifun. "The Taifun was originally developed as a Hardtail Semi-Lowracer with 20" wheels front and rear for quick handling and blistering acceleration." Blistering acceleration? For all the advocates of recumbents regarding comfort, is this the vehicle they have in mind? I'm not anti recumbent (would have loved to have had a Counterpoint Opus/ViewPoint) but without personally trying this rig, I question it's daily practicality. The Obree Superman style bike, while a step further than an aerobar setup, was specifically designed to operate on a track. But there is no reason the same handlebar setup couldn't have been applied to a road bicycle. While I don't think I would probably recommend riding the Superman handlebar setup within The Loop areas, I think it would be no less safe than triathletes riding in their aerobar positions in suburban Chicagoland. The Obree or "Superman" position rider better have well developed neck muscles if he/she wants to keep an eye on the road ahead: http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/MultimediaFiles/20061209_REV15_OBREE.JPG. That's not the Superman position. Superman position has elbows/torso much higher. Compare knee to elbow on the pic you provided (that looks like Obree on a conventional setup) with http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/superpos.htm I have not ridden such a bike, but the large amount of "tiller" could make for odd handling. Are not aerobars forbidden and/or discouraged for any type of group riding? The tiller effect you speak of is not so pronounced. You do more of your steering with your forearms than your hands. During road races, riders in the lead will sometimes rest their forearms on the handlebar tops to simulate the position of aerobars, leaving their hands attached to no part of the bicycle. Aerobars are forbidden in mass start bicycle races (like road races and criteriums), but are used in team time trials and team pursuit events. The odd handling comes from not having a wide, stable base, such as riding on the drops or on the brake levers for sharp or unexpected maneuvers. Aerobar use in group riding is discouraged, usually because of people using them without much experience and in locations where their use is not prudent, such on city streets where you may have to swerve suddenly or make a sharp turn on to a different road. I believe that a lot more people can tolerate being reclined on a lowracer (like sitting on a lawn chair) than the severe tuck of the Obree position. Again, your reference is not the correct position. I can't speak personally about the comfort of the Superman as I haven't tried it, but in 1994 I was lent Moser's Obree style bike that he used a few months before to go faster than his 1984 hour record. It was amazingly comfortable and easy to ride (for someone used to riding a conventional upright bike). http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/pics/pic_moser.jpg BTW, here is a chart that could clear everything up, although I don't know where they obtained their data: http://www.adventuresofgreg.com/hpvl...speedchart.jpg |
#128
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TdF and recumbents
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:28:43 -0500
Tom Sherman wrote: Here is your unfaired recumbent which is at least 20% faster on a flat course than a UCI legal bike: http://www.velokraft.com/-nc.htm. And yes, I have personally witnessed the NoCom being ridden on public suburban roads that were NOT closed to traffic. And yes (pace Jobst), the chain is far enough away from the front wheel to allow reasonably tight turns. I've been riding in traffic with low racers although not that one specifically, and I've seen someone commuting on a low racer. Visibility is fine, you can see the heads turning everywhere! Vision, according to the commuter, is a matter of road position and intelligent anticipation. As he'd been commuting on the thing for 2 years, I presume he had learned how to do it well. I doubt I'd want to commute on it, but I expect I could. Zebee |
#129
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TdF and recumbents
Tom Sherman wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote: "Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Carl Sundquist wrote: There is no recumbent that is 20% faster than an upright on the flats everything else being equal. Now _that's_ mixing apples and oranges. What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? Who cares? The above point was "no recumbent", no distinction about fairings or otherwise, simply *no* recumbent and a flat course specified. And of course faired uprights are welcome to take part in IHPVA records but nobody sees much point. I guess because they're not so quick... If you can specify a flat course, I can specify unfaired recumbents. Here is your unfaired recumbent which is at least 20% faster on a flat course than a UCI legal bike: http://www.velokraft.com/-nc.htm. And yes, I have personally witnessed the NoCom being ridden on public suburban roads that were NOT closed to traffic. And yes (pace Jobst), the chain is far enough away from the front wheel to allow reasonably tight turns. That was the bike that the unfaired recumbent 1 hour world record was set on. The record which by the way is slower than the one for normal bikes. But that might be due to the rider not being as good, who knows. Maybe 1 hour is too short time for the upright bike to become really uncomfortable, and thus a rider can ride it. JonB |
#130
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TdF and recumbents
Carl Sundquist wrote:
"Jon Bendtsen" wrote in message ... Carl Sundquist wrote: "Jon Bendtsen" wrote in message ... What is the _unfaired_ recumbent hour record? I think it was 29.76 Miles, i saw a youtube of it today. Which seems a little slower than the UCI hour record, but maybe that is because the rider is not the same? Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. I'd say that the unfaired recumbent hour record is pretty darn remarkable. Did any noteworthy rider do it? I dont know, look him up I looked on the IHPVA site before I asked the question. The only (recognized) hour record that looks to possibly be an unfaired recumbent was set in 1938 at 31.4 mph. Quite a remarkable time if that was the case. Help me out here a little bit. This is were i looked. http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wrra/records.asp JonB Thanks. I did a quick search on Sean Costin. It's clear that he loves building HPV/recumbents and likely spends more time tinkering with them than trying to maximize his fitness. Nothing wrong with that at all and as I said, pretty darn remarkable. And judging from the looks, given equal wattage from riders his would be able to go 20 % faster than an upright (on a flat, wind protected surface ;-) I think you are right. I read that this world record seems like a low hanging fruit, because it has not yet been targeted by professional bicyclists. JonB |
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