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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 4th 17, 01:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #2  
Old January 4th 17, 01:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

try DT or Specialized.

or for example

https://www.google.com/#q=rubber+con...ement&tbm=shop

contact cement not rubber adhesive.

Henkel-Loctite has one last I looked.

Weldwood red is super contact cement but its a liquid not thickened liquid like Weldwood in the glass bottle which is OK.
  #3  
Old January 4th 17, 01:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?


https://www.google.com/#q=tire%20sid...%3Ayoutube.com

https://www.google.com/#q=tire+conta...vement&tbm=vid

could be a movement video in thereā€¦.dig the tire machine !!!

no, sidewall patches are difficult as the sidewall flexes more than the center contact patch.

I could try images

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...k1.4Op_7Q5DHAA

  #4  
Old January 4th 17, 01:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/3/2017 7:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast
or where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths
of an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and,
therefore, expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something
to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I
need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but
this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


See an auto parts house for Tech rubber cement in the steel
can. You might want their buffer solution too - very
effective for cleaning before your patch.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #5  
Old January 4th 17, 02:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
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Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 17:04:40 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


My LBS usually has small sealed tubes of glue. When I see them I buy
four or five and when I open a sealed tube, in the kit on the bike, I
replace it with another sealed one as find the glue has dried up is
not quite so much of a catastrophe at home :-)

Or you might try contact cement what I suspect is what is in the usual
tire patching kit.

By the way, "vulcanizing" implies the use of heat, and sulphur, and I
remember when I was in high school working at a local gas station we
had a clamp that had a sort of cup as part of it. We glued the patch
on than clamped it and filled the cup with gasoline and lit it. When
everything had cooled down the patch seemed to be a part of the tube,
not something glued on.
See: http://tinyurl.com/jdvfgbu for a modern electrical device to do
the same thing.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #6  
Old January 4th 17, 02:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Right ! I forgotto... bought both from NAPA for a last try at rejoining boots to lugged soles.

Need jigsawing 2 squeeze together ply sheets closing top edges of the bathtub lugged sole onto the boot.
  #7  
Old January 4th 17, 02:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,346
Default Stronger rubber cement?

John B. wrote:
:On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 17:04:40 -0800, Joerg
:wrote:

:Gentlemen,
:
:Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
:kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
:cheap small tubes are available.
:
:The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
:blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
:The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
:and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
:REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
:but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.

:My LBS usually has small sealed tubes of glue. When I see them I buy
:four or five and when I open a sealed tube, in the kit on the bike, I
:replace it with another sealed one as find the glue has dried up is
:not quite so much of a catastrophe at home :-)

:Or you might try contact cement what I suspect is what is in the usual
:tire patching kit.

:By the way, "vulcanizing" implies the use of heat, and sulphur, and I

Vulcanizing may have the connotation of involving heat, but it's a chemical
reaction, which results in the sulphur in the rubber becoming
crosslinked. Patches, at least the good ones such as Rema and park,
are a multi-layered assembly. The top layers are for strength, the
bottom (closest to the tube) consists of unvulcanized rubber, mixed
with a vulcanizing ultra-accelerator (there are a number of zinc
thiols that are suitable, which ones are used are trade secrets. ZDDP
is typical, though). vulcanizing cement consists of a unvulcanized
rubber particles, a solvent to carry them, and a vulcanizing
activator. Cyclohexylamine is common, but there are others that will
work, and are less toxic. The activator reacts with the zinc thiol,
and causes the patch, the rubber in the cement, and the surface of
tube to become vulcanized. There's not much free sulphur in the tube,
because it's vulcanized, which is one of the reasons that it's
important to properly scarify the tube surface before patching; it
greatly increases the surface area of the patch. The reaction is not
instant, but it happens pretty fast at room temperature, and
continues for some time, until all the sulphur available has linke.d

The accelerator in the cement is one reason that tubes of glue
sometimes are just rubber, and not cement.



--
sig 56
  #8  
Old January 4th 17, 04:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 17:04:40 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.


Contact cement. It's a neoprene rubber based goo that remains fairly
flexible if applied in a very thin layer. Smear some on both the tire
and the patch, let air dry for at least 10 minutes (longer is better),
and stick together with a little compression pressure. I've used a
roller, two blocks of wood and a C-clamp, and beating on the sandwich
with a hammer. They all work.

Rubber cement is a latex rubber based goo. Otherwise, it's similar to
contact cement. It also uses many of the same solvents as contact
cement. Bicycle patches use heptane, naphtha, or a mixture of both.
Rubber and contact cement use these or other organic solvents. There's
also a water based version of rubber cement.

Contact cement solvents won't evaporate as fast as rubber cement
because the contact cement is thicker in the bottle and forms an
effective barrier. However, the solvents will rapidly evaporate if
the can, bottle, or tube is left in the sun.

Contact cement on bicycle tubes is nothing new:
http://www.bicitoro.com/how-to-glue-inner-tubes/
However, if do some Googling, you'll probably find testimonials from
people trying contact cement, and claiming it doesn't work. The
problem is that while rubber cement vulcanizing patches require
cleaning and sanding before applying, some people seem to forget to do
these things when using contact cement.

I've also tried glue used for patching my wet suit:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mcnett-14114-Seal-Cement-2-Oz-Tube-Black/21970283
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9QK0yF540c
https://www.google.com/search?q=neoprene+wetsuit+glue&tbm=isch
http://www.bodylinewetsuits.co.uk/2015/01/12/using-black-witch-neoprene-glue/
I've only done one tire with wet suit glue and found that it didn't
last. However, that was in a rush, with little preparation, no
clamping, and I used a piece of vinyl for the patch. I suspect I can
improve the bond if I were more organized and careful.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Hmmm... contact cement is more expensive than rubber cement. If I had
to find something cheaper than rubber cement, methinks RTV (room
temperature vulcanizing rubber) would probably qualify. The catch is
that you might have to wait overnight for the RTV to harden.

Anyway, I suggest you sacrifice an old tube, cut it apart, cut some
slits, patch with the various available glues, and test the results
with a pull test, peel test, pressure test, and flexibility test.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #9  
Old January 4th 17, 06:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
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Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 02:47:50 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

John B. wrote:
:On Tue, 03 Jan 2017 17:04:40 -0800, Joerg
:wrote:

:Gentlemen,
:
:Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
:kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
:cheap small tubes are available.
:
:The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
:blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
:The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
:and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
:REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
:but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.

:My LBS usually has small sealed tubes of glue. When I see them I buy
:four or five and when I open a sealed tube, in the kit on the bike, I
:replace it with another sealed one as find the glue has dried up is
:not quite so much of a catastrophe at home :-)

:Or you might try contact cement what I suspect is what is in the usual
:tire patching kit.

:By the way, "vulcanizing" implies the use of heat, and sulphur, and I

Vulcanizing may have the connotation of involving heat, but it's a chemical
reaction, which results in the sulphur in the rubber becoming
crosslinked.


It is a chemical reaction that occurs very slowly and incompletely
without heat. Try mixing raw latex with powdered sulphur if you don't
believe it.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #10  
Old January 4th 17, 08:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dennis Davis[_2_]
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Posts: 33
Default Stronger rubber cement?

In article ,
Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the
patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where
multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an
inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this has to be
vulcanized/cemented really well.


The small REMA patches are some 15mm in diameter. Larger sizes
exist. I believe the next size up is 25mm in diameter and the oval
REMA patches are available. An ebay search should throw up what's
available by mail order.

Same for the the REMA rubber cement. It comes in different size
tubes, including the small ones you mention. Again an Internet
search should show what's available.

I don't usually have problems using REMA patches & glue. However
puncture repairing technique can be as contentious as chain cleaning
and lubrication advice. I'm going to keep my head down :-)
--
Dennis Davis
 




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