GPS Units = Show road steepness?

On Friday, March 15, 2019 at 2:43:42 PM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Friday, March 15, 2019 at 9:28:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Also Zen's idea that you can make enough of ANY bicycle component
to qualify it for custom fabrication is WAY over the top.

You have absolutely no qualifications to be able to make that comment, so Unless you've had direct conversations with the senior design staff at Garmin you might want to keep your ****ing mouth shut. yeah yeah, we know, you sent them an email and they told you they were using devices from the Mirochip DSP family, right?

I wonder if he knows what it cost to manufacture custom chips that will
be outdated next year because someone gives their's another feature.

A custom ASIC doesn't go obsolete until the manufacturer determines it no longer meets the requirements, ****ferbrains.

Speed averaging for display isn't the world's easiest problem and
they are doing that in a continuous update.

Your stupidity know no bounds. Average speed is calculated by distance over time. That's two numbers that are constantly updated, and a simple math function that constantly updates a third. That number is converted to a display map. This is difficult? Maybe for you.


Since the altitude problem requires two inputs minimum to an ADC
there is no possibility of making a custom chip.

wow....no, calculating altitude doesn't require two DC inputs. A barometeric pressure sensor has one analog output, ****ferbrains. Even calculation through GPS is done by a serial data transfer from the GPS receiver to the microcomputer, unless of course you can give us a link to a GPS receiver that has an integrated shift register designed to mate with a data bus (yeah that would make all kinds of sense for a device that processes data rates as slow as GPS....derp)

And he doesn't seem to know what a gate array is or what it does.

It's pretty clear, I know way more about it than you do. I've written VHDL for FPGAs, and not just once. I've been on a team that developed segmentation and reassembly chipsets for sychronous optical networks. The combinatorial logic device that was part of the chipset was a 240 pin Altera chip.

Tell us what you actually know about the Garmin. Are you a design engineer there? We do know that the early one's didn't work for **** and they had to continue improving them for quite a while before they became acceptable for the normal user. GPS is a radio signal - More of that analog signal stuff.. FPGA's to process the signals were great and replaced some pretty damn complex circuits and programming.

I'm sure that you know more than me about building chips. The question is whether you understand how that relates to actually building devices that use those chips. I am not questioning your knowledge of design of FPGA's but of the actual use of them.

Explain to us all how you use GPS to measure altitude accurately. As far as I know they were using a pressure altimeter like everyone else. This means that you HAD to have a two channel ADC built into the device and don't look now but the A in ADC is "analog". Tell us about your design for an analog FPGA.

Didn't we just go through the various kinds of averaging algorithms? You might want to review that before telling us all how simple it is. Because some of those methods are not all that simple - running averages in particular.. And I think that it was Radey talking about using IIR which would require a high end FPGA wouldn't it? I'm buying a new, wireless VDO for $50.

Look, custom chips or FPGA's work fine in some uses. In particular mass produced items that are unlikely to see changes. And if you go through the various bicycle speedometers you will see the standards - speed and distance. But there are all sorts of additional features and they are added to, almost every year. I think that they are presently getting to the point where they have more or less maxed out all of the features that are possible. However, the volume of these speedometers is so small that there is little point in making custom chips.

Presently the features in the VDO were trip distance, trip time, average speed, actual speed, clock, trip altitude, altitude, average grade, present grade, maximum grade, total climbing since reset, total descent and an entire set of "navigator I and navigator II" features that I don't even know what they mean. Then what do you do when they reconfigure the display to show five features in stead of three? What happens when the display becomes a different scan rate?

There were several standardized bus interfaces and FPGA's were just the thing for those. I have a couple of communications boards on the International Space Station that would have been exactly the thing. But the buses were still early in development and there weren't any of the custom interfaces available so I did it with standard logic. Then I had to get the damn things international approval meeting the communications bus standards so that they could have a label saying that they met the standards. All of the many standard interfaces around today all have programmed FPGA's available for them. Makes it easy to add all of the communications standards you want.

FPGA's that are signal processors are very high end and expensive. At least as expensive as a uP and interfacing. Plus you can get the ADC or DAC for free if you're using a $0.50 uP in bulk it also has built in RAM and FPROM.

Don't think for one second that a great chip you help design is ideal for any and every use.

On Friday, March 15, 2019 at 4:47:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 08:55:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/14/2019 9:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:58:37 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

I find this aggravating. I know this probably isn't a legit RTC, but
the clock in my car loses a minute per month (no, I'm not
exaggerating), yet I have a ten year old MP3 player I use when working
out that I've never had to rest the clock (I paid $40 for it in
2009). My car is a 2010 element, and it's had this problem since it
was new. I understand from reviewing several internet forums that this
is sort of a known issue, and the dealer said all hondas from that
period that _don't_ have factory navigation systems have this
problem. I understand that saving a few pennies per car means a lot on
the overall cost of the product, but really?

Somebody saved $0.05 on parts. Not always a win.


Hey! Somebody got an employee of the month award, complete with $10
Starbucks gift card for saving that $0.05.

A chap I worked with had worked for Ford Motorcar Co. and had gotten a
cash award for showing how they could install 2 fewer sheet metal
screws in the firewall of a Ford motorcar.

--
Cheers,
John B.



In my 1965 all the dash controls are diecast zinc. On a 1966
they're chromoplastic. I always imagined that somebody
retired on that change.

That was probably either the design department's innovation or perhaps
engineering :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.

They didn't call it an Aardvark for nothing.

On Friday, March 15, 2019 at 10:13:58 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 16/3/19 12:28 am, wrote:
On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 9:01:22 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 15/3/19 1:47 pm, Mike A Schwab wrote:


Well, actually the reed switch is effectively a relay. Takes
1/100 of a second to close in the gap between the sides of the
magnet. Computer could be sampling much more often. And a faster
speed doesn't give the reed switch enough time to close.


Why does it need to be "sampling"?

The switch may be connected to a digital input that generates an
interrupt upon a rising (or falling) edge, for example. The ISR
could then read and reset a timer/counter since the last rising
edge was detected. A counter can keep track of distance
travelled.


At 60 m/s (in excess of 200km/h), with a nominal 2m circumference,
the wheel spins 30 revs per second. A 100 uS timer period would
capture the speed of 1 rev with better than 1% accuracy at this
speed.

So long as it could count to 100,000 (not impossible for a 4 bit
computer to handle roll over), it could also measure speed at
1km/h.

The screen could be updated with the latest distance or filtered
speed every second or when it has changed.

-- JS

James - If, as Frank says, they are using a 4 bit uP, that counter is
a whole lot easier said than done. As I pointed out the counter has
to be at least 20 bits and more likely 24. Small, cheap uP are that
way for a reason - they have very little support circuitry. Dealing
with large numbers is not their strong point.

I've written code for this sort of thing in the past.

--
JS

Then I'm sure that you understand just how much code it takes to make the smallest conversions. I remember the Intell 4004 but never used one. I think that I started with 8008's and rapidly went to 8080's and then the entire rainbow up to 32 bit RISC and CISC units.

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 11:01:44 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.

I have seen firsthand, in those I love, how a little brain injury can
rob a person of any ability you can name, and some you can't. To walk,
to speak, to remember your childhood, to remember whether you had
breakfast, to plan ahead, to hold one's tongue, all can be lost. Some
say "there but for the grace of God go I". No matter how you say it, it
is well to recognize that there is no natural law that prevents such a
thing from happening to any of us. I try to remember that before I
post.

A "draft" feature in the newsreader helps.

On a ride today we got on the subject of one of the group members who has Alzheimer's now. His wife has been treated for lung cancer and she only has a half lung left. She simply couldn't deal with him any more and got him to sign his rights away so she could put him in a "center". He is very likely to commit suicide there since if you've ever been to one of those you realize just how bad it is. I think the real question is if his memory lasts long enough for him to give up all hope or if he gets to the point where he doesn't realize where he is anymore.

Aging diseases are VERY rare but to hear or see all of the articles about them you would think that that is what everyone has to look forward to.

You cannot imagine what I went through when I finally got a neurologist that knew what he was doing and "came back" after 2 years of being essentially unconscious. I have gone from 210 lbs to 142 and the way I felt I actually considered suicide. Luckily as soon as I started eating correctly that went away.

Then I kept getting calls from past managers wanting me to go to work. I was afraid that I couldn't remember anything and turned down Lawrence Berkeley Labs and the two big labs out in Livermore. Three or four places in Silicon Valley.

Finally an old partner talked me into doing a small job. I wouldn't accept any pay for it because I didn't think I could complete the job. But as soon as I sat down to program it turned out that none of that part of the brain was involved in the memory loss. I completed his multiple programs and even redesigned the digital hardware for all the good that did. It was for a British company that decided not to go forward with the project - the final solution would have been to find leaks in the roofs of industrial buildings.. That is a major problem whether it sounds like it or not.

In any case all of the engineering is there. And slowly a lot of the jobs I did in the past came back. Though it takes me time to warm up. Like the 4 seconds rather than 4 revolutions per second problem.

If you think it can't happen to you beware.

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:01:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.


Never watch kids in a school yard screaming at each other, "Your Momma
wears army boots", "No she don't", "Yes she does!".


--
Cheers,
John B.

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:23:38 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:01:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.


Never watch kids in a school yard screaming at each other, "Your Momma
wears army boots", "No she don't", "Yes she does!".

Your momma wears army boots is now a point of pride. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Elmendorf.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:53:02 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:23:38 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:01:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.


Never watch kids in a school yard screaming at each other, "Your Momma
wears army boots", "No she don't", "Yes she does!".

Your momma wears army boots is now a point of pride. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Elmendorf.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps "now" but in the days of my youth, alas many years past, work
clothing was not considered proper attire for going downtown, or the
movies, or for Saturday shopping trips, and certainly not on Sunday.
In fact Levi's, what we called dungarees, were forbidden attire to be
worn to school.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 11:03:31 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:53:02 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:23:38 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:01:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.


Never watch kids in a school yard screaming at each other, "Your Momma
wears army boots", "No she don't", "Yes she does!".

Your momma wears army boots is now a point of pride. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Elmendorf.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps "now" but in the days of my youth, alas many years past, work
clothing was not considered proper attire for going downtown, or the
movies, or for Saturday shopping trips, and certainly not on Sunday.
In fact Levi's, what we called dungarees, were forbidden attire to be
worn to school.

--
Cheers,
John B.

Not to mention faded ripped denim trousers/jeans/pants.

Cheers

John B. Slocomb writes:

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:53:02 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:23:38 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:01:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.


Never watch kids in a school yard screaming at each other, "Your Momma
wears army boots", "No she don't", "Yes she does!".

Your momma wears army boots is now a point of
pride. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Elmendorf.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps "now" but in the days of my youth, alas many years past, work
clothing was not considered proper attire for going downtown, or the
movies, or for Saturday shopping trips, and certainly not on Sunday.
In fact Levi's, what we called dungarees, were forbidden attire to be
worn to school.

These days it's common to see young people about town dressed,
literally, in pajamas and fuzzy slippers. Dungarees are reserved for
job interviews and funerals. Pink camo cycling shorts and a Primal Wear
jersey is about the middle of the formality spectrum now.

On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. Slocomb writes:

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:53:02 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:23:38 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 14:01:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Zen Cycle writes:

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 8:38:54 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:
Zen Cycle writes:

keyboard. IF I had to write those whole 10K+ lines of code from
scratch.....ugh.

I surmised that you enjoyed arguing about it because you continue to
do so.

To be clear, I haven't been arguing with you. For an example of my
argument style, refer to my exchanges with tom. Rather, I enjoy the
conceptual discussions. If you started on code structure, you'd put me
to sleep.

Hard times indeed, when an exchange of insults is sold for the price of
an argument. A proper argument requires, well, arguments: propositions
supported by logic, based on articulated facts. Animation is good, but
rancor and invective are not required, nor seizing offense as though it
were higher ground. I think Monty Python did a bit on that.


Never watch kids in a school yard screaming at each other, "Your Momma
wears army boots", "No she don't", "Yes she does!".

Your momma wears army boots is now a point of
pride. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Elmendorf.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

Perhaps "now" but in the days of my youth, alas many years past, work
clothing was not considered proper attire for going downtown, or the
movies, or for Saturday shopping trips, and certainly not on Sunday.
In fact Levi's, what we called dungarees, were forbidden attire to be
worn to school.

These days it's common to see young people about town dressed,
literally, in pajamas and fuzzy slippers. Dungarees are reserved for
job interviews and funerals. Pink camo cycling shorts and a Primal Wear
jersey is about the middle of the formality spectrum now.

There's a local Tim Hirton's coffee shop where in the mornings around 8 to 9 M many of the women stopping in for coffee and chatting are wearing pajamas or just robes. I find it amazing what is acceptable as public wear these days.

Cheers