Ontario Helmet Law being pushed through

Michael Wrote:
I'm undecided. People who don't wear helmets are stupid plain as day.

Hi Michael. Unlike you I'm not undecided. I think people who say - as
you did - "People who don't wear helmets are stupid plain as day." are
stupid plain as day. Just in case you don't get what I'm saying Michael
I'll say it again in another way. Michael, if anyone is plain as day
stupid, it's you. Is that clear?

Roger


--
RogerDodger

Wolfgang Strobl Wrote:
(Maggie):

Does cycling without a helmet really need to be be criminal?

Who are you hurting beside yourself if you choose not to wear a
helmet? What is the crime? I think children should wear helmets, but
adults should make their own choice.

Ahem. What business do people like you have with _my_ children?
Thanks,
but no thanks. I think parents have the duty to protect their
children
against the malicious claptrap of illinformed busybodies selling
harmfull snake-oil products of all sorts. Like bicycle helmets, for
example.

Btw, what do motorcycle helmets have to do with bicycling?

--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions

Well said Wolfgang!
Hear Hear.

Roger


--
RogerDodger

Bill Z. Wrote:

Wolfgang is back, repeating the same things he's said for years.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
Is that a fact Bill?
Well Gee, welcome back Wolfgang, I haven't been privvy to what you've
been saying for years- but what you do say seems light years ahead of
Zaumoron's claptrap.


--
RogerDodger

Frank Krygowski writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:
BTW, if I remember
correctly, he used to post with the x-no-archive flag set...

As usual, you're either remembering wrong or inventing things.

See
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=355ca440.54640388%40news.gmd.de&output =gplain
where Wolfgang Strobl said precisely that - that he used the
x-no-archive flag. I don't see why he'd lie about it given that he
was explaining to someone why a search of DejaNews (before Google
bought it) wouldn't work, and seemed to be trying to help that person
out.

Bill, I'm continually astounded that you don't embarrass yourself to
silence.

What you should be embarassed by, Krygowski, is your bald-faced lies
and baseless statements like the above when you really don't have
the facts and are too inept to check for yourself. All you had to
do was to search messages in rec.bicycles.soc whose author is Strobl
and with the phrase x-no-archive. It took a couple of minutes and
is not particularly difficult.

But, your behavior is typical of you, and that is precisely why I
have no respect for you - it is not an error on your part given
how often you do this sort of thing.

Oh, and one other thing - I posted it with the caveat "if I remembered
correctly." It meant what it said. Your statement about "inventing
things" is simply character assassination. You'd fit quite well
in Bush's election campaign - those *******s have the same ethics
you do.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Frank Krygowski writes:

Bill Z. wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:

If all these helmets are really doing what you believe, the benefits
should be detectable.
There's been an increase in red-light running and other reckless
behavior, plus a huge increase in the average vehicle size, all of
which make cycling more dangerous than before.

Ah. Interesting conjecture. But I see you've posted no evidence to
support it - as usual.

Read the ****ing newspapers.

See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/12/05/MNW14097.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1996/12/31/NEWS8420.dtl
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/09/12/MN74703.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1996/09/11/MN57241.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1995/11/14/EDITORIAL4921.dtl

The last URL states

"I had worked in San Francisco since 1979, except for one year
in Colorado. I returned to The City in December 1994 and no
longer felt safe here.

"There were so many instances of red-light running. You could
see 50, 60 a day at Sutter and Kearny."

This is a well known problem. I shouldn't have to post "evidence"
for what you should know if you merely kept up with current events.


Now's the time for you to post some evidence of both the increase in
red light running, and the increased cycling danger.

See above, including the cyclist fatalities. Couple that change in
behavior with larger vehicles and the results are simply obvious
to anyone with half a brain.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:23:45 +0000, Bill Z. wrote:



Bill, I'm continually astounded that you don't embarrass yourself to
silence.

What you should be embarassed by, Krygowski, is your bald-faced lies
and baseless statements like the above when you really don't have
the facts and are too inept to check for yourself. All you had to
do was to search messages in rec.bicycles.soc whose author is Strobl
and with the phrase x-no-archive. It took a couple of minutes and
is not particularly difficult.

But, your behavior is typical of you, and that is precisely why I
have no respect for you - it is not an error on your part given
how often you do this sort of thing.

Oh, and one other thing - I posted it with the caveat "if I remembered
correctly." It meant what it said. Your statement about "inventing
things" is simply character assassination. You'd fit quite well
in Bush's election campaign - those *******s have the same ethics
you do.

Isn't it funny the way people who don't like a position (that mandatory
helmet laws are harmful and counterproductive) but can't find any facts
to back up their position, attack the person (messenger) instead?
Truth is absolute, and does not depend on the personal characteristics of
the person telling the truth. So if a person attacks me personally I
merely take that as evidence that he (no, it usually isn't a she) can't
find anything wrong with my statements.
What little we hear about the MHL here in NZ is usually against the law.
The pro-law people seem to have gone mute.

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.

Peter, you are wasting your time. As far as Zaumen is concerned there
are only two types of people in the world: people who agree with him,
and liars.

The former group contains, at last count, exactly one member: Zaumen
himself, and strangely, all the expertise seems to be among the
"liars." Bill has a real talent for unforced errors, gratuitous
ignorance, and arguig himself into a hole. The hole in question being
positioned - well, you can probably guess where ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:09:21 GMT, Chris Phillipo
wrote:

It's not a crime. You get a ticket, you don't go to jail.

Are you sure of that? Over here, the pro-speeding lobby love tom
claim that speeding is not a crime because you don't go to jail, but
they are flat wrong. The fact that the state prosecutes the offence
makes it a criminal matter, and it is heard in the criminal courts.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:57:50 -0500, "DT"
wrote:

I think many parents and youth are simply unaware of the inherent dangers
of sport and the benefits if wearing helmets as was the cace with
seatbelts. The law will change all.

I think this is a crock of ****. If you look at the percentage of
head injuries in cyclists and pedestrians in NZ, and co-plot against
helemt wearing rates, it is absolutely plain that there is no
measurable effect. You can't guess from the chart which line is peds
and which cyclists.

In the USA, the cyclist head injury rate has risen by 40% in the last
ten years, as helmet use has increased threefold to 50%, with cyclist
numbers reducing by 21%.

As ever with road safety, what is "obvious" is wrong.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:25:06 GMT, Bill "Laa laa I'm not listening"
Zaumen wrote:

Wolfgang is back, repeating the same things he's said for years.

Your house a bit short of mirrors, then, Bill?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University