Boris keeps the important traffic flowing

http://tinyurl.com/q9tu6c

Toby Young:-
"My five-year-old daughter's best friend was run over last week. It
happened on the pelican crossing on Uxbridge Road, opposite St
Stephen's Primary School in Shepherd's Bush.

Miguel waited until he saw a green man, crossed to the island in the
middle of the road, then carried on walking, not realising that the
green man had started flashing. He was hit by a Ford Focus travelling
at 30mph.

Luckily, he wasn't badly hurt, but it is only a matter of time before
a child is killed at this crossing. Miguel is the third child from St
Stephen's to be hit there this year.

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

Third class citizens. Endanger and delay the peds so that the over-
privileged and important motorists (and the cyclists who do bother to
stop) don't get too frustrated.

On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On Wed, 13 May 2009 13:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Squashme
wrote:



http://tinyurl.com/q9tu6c

Toby Young:-
"My five-year-old daughter's best friend was run over last week. It
happened on the pelican crossing on Uxbridge Road, opposite St
Stephen's Primary School in Shepherd's Bush.

Miguel waited until he saw a green man, crossed to the island in the
middle of the road, then carried on walking, not realising that the
green man had started flashing. He was hit by a Ford Focus travelling
at 30mph.

Luckily, he wasn't badly hurt, but it is only a matter of time before
a child is killed at this crossing. Miguel is the third child from St
Stephen's to be hit there this year.

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

Third class citizens. Endanger and delay the peds so that the over-
privileged and important motorists (and the cyclists who do bother to
stop) don't get too frustrated.


Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

How old was the child? - perhaps 5 - the same as his friend.

Should he have been crossing a main road on his own at that age?

I blame the parents. - he should have been taught how to cross the
road.

Odd that a child was hit on a pelican crossing by a car doing thirty
and the only paper it made was the Evening Standard.


--

"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.

A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.

Highway Code Rule 168 : "Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass."

Ian Smith wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, Ian SMith

indeed which is why as a car/van/bike/on foot i like zebra crossings,
one can cross when you want and you are only their for the time it comes
to cross, and on road you don't end up waiting at lights when people
have pressed the button but given up waiting and crossed any way.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Capital to Coast
www.justgiving.com/rogermerriman

In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?

--
Dave Larrington
http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
Unloading, please wait.

Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, Ian SMith


From when the green man/woman/person of indeterminite gender is lit
you've got ten second before they start flashing. At this point you have
to be ready to slap the roof of cars or kick the doors to remind them
that you are still on the crossing.
(Not done this for a while but it was frequent when my girls were
younger. Not yet been thumped for it as my rant involves the idea of
them killing my child. Nearly shoved a cyclist off once as he just
missed me and one of my girls, I wouldn't have been too concerned if
he'd ended up in hospital as he was prepared to speed across while
people were in his way.)


--

Come to Dave & Boris - your cycle security experts.

Dave Larrington wrote:
In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?

Not only that but it's probably irrelevant: if the two parts of the
crossing are in-line then they count as one crossing (staggered
crossings count separately). Traffic on the far side is required to
wait until pedestrians have crossed both parts of the crossing
irrespective of whether the lights change before they have made it
half way across.

Highway Code:

196
Signal-controlled crossings

Pelican crossings. These are signal-controlled crossings where
flashing amber follows the red ‘Stop’ light. You MUST stop when the
red light shows. When the amber light is flashing, you MUST give way
to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and
there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with
caution.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

197

Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing,
even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who
are crossing from the other side of the island.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

198

Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has
changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt

On Thu, 14 May 2009 09:57:10 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
wrote:

In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?


That'll be the bit where it says :

"Miguel waited until he saw a green man, crossed to the island in the
middle of the road,"


and as you well know - if there is an island it will be most likely
two separate crossings.



--

"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.

A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.

Highway Code Rule 168 : "Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass."

Phil Armstrong wrote:
Dave Larrington wrote:
In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)
Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?

Not only that but it's probably irrelevant: if the two parts of the
crossing are in-line then they count as one crossing (staggered
crossings count separately). Traffic on the far side is required to
wait until pedestrians have crossed both parts of the crossing
irrespective of whether the lights change before they have made it
half way across.

Highway Code:

196
Signal-controlled crossings

Pelican crossings. These are signal-controlled crossings where
flashing amber follows the red ‘Stop’ light. You MUST stop when the
red light shows. When the amber light is flashing, you MUST give way
to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and
there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with
caution.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

197

Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing,
even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who
are crossing from the other side of the island.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

198

Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has
changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

Phil

Look like the sensible thing would be to remove the island as it is
causing confusion.

Paul

--
CTC Right to Ride Rep. for Richmond upon Thames

On Thu, 14 May 2009 16:43:38 +0100, Paul Luton
wrote:

snip



Look like the sensible thing would be to remove the island as it is
causing confusion.

Paul


I don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with the
crossing - more as I said the kid had not been taught to use it
properly.

I suggest he had not been told that if he was caught on the island he
needed to press the button to change the lights again and he should
not continue crossing once his "permission" light had gone out.

Hardly the motorist's fault.
- but hey - lets's give a motorist a bashing.


--

"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.

A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.

Highway Code Rule 168 : "Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass."