Does anything dissolve paint thinner

On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:


I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab.
It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F.
I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water.
I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off.
:-)
Andy

Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is
probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the
lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem,
especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This
is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure
cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through
the maze of chain lubes and application methods.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:


I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab.
It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F.
I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water.
I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off.
:-)
Andy

Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is
probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the
lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem,
especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This
is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure
cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through
the maze of chain lubes and application methods.


What, Jeff? No vacuum pumps? Put an inch or so of lube into pressure
cooker, add chain, close lid and then apply vacuum to extract all the air
from the interstices in the chain. When you release the vacuum, the lube
gets “pumped� into all the nooks and crannies.

PS: I don’t personally do this...

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 04:46:28 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 02:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

AK wrote:
I found a more environmentally clean option.

Homemade water based cleaner recipe that worked well in a sprayer bottle.

8 oz. water
1 Tbsp Vinegar
1 Tbsp Baking Soda
1 Tsp Dish Soap

Leave out the vinegar and baking side and I bet it will work just as well,
just not put on as much of a show.

The vinegar and baking soda reaction will produce quite a bit of foam,
where the collapsing bubbles might simulate the cavitation from an
ultrasonic cleaner. I've never tried it, but it might improve the
detergent action of the soap without the need for an ultrasonic
cleaner.

"homemade ultrasonic cleaning solution"
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=124786
1) plain old white vinegar
2) salt
3) baking soda
4) lemonshine
5) citric acid
6) lemon juice
7) Birchwood Casey brass cleaner
Notice the vinegar and baking soda in the recipe.

I understand the concept, but I canÂ’t imagine the collapsing bubbles
imparting any substantial amount of physical scrubbing action.

The cavitation produced by the collapsing bubbles is capable of
pitting soft metals. However, there are no soft metals on a bicycle
chain, so I guess it's safe.

Ultrasonic Cleaning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning
Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced
by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid.
The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering
to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and
ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks,
and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all
traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto
solid surfaces.

Seems (to me) similar to the bubbling action of vinegar and baking
soda. However, there's one important difference. The ultrasonic
cleaner delivers quite a bit of energy to force the soap solution to
produce bubbles, while the vinegar and soda mix has much less chemical
energy. At some point during the chemical reaction, the vinegar and
soda mix might approach the energy level of the ultrasonic cleaner,
but for very long.

The bubbles from an ultrasonic cleaner are basically full of vacuum, so
they collapse with some vigour and slam the working fluid into whatever is
being cleaned. The bubbles in your basic Grade 3 science fair volcano are
full of very low pressure CO2 (the pressure is limited by the surface
tension of the soap solution), so there’s an order of magnitude less energy
released when they pop.


Maybe the
expanding bubbles might force the soap solution deeper into parts, but at
that dilution ratio, and considering that youÂ’re supposed to mix it
together in a spray bottle BEFORE using it, I have low hopes. If I had to
come up with a homemade EZ-Clean solution, I would use dish soap and
boiling water.

I currently don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. However, I do have a
two stage vacuum pump and chamber (modified pressure cooker). I use
it mostly for getting the bubbles out of resin molds and epoxy potting
compound. However, when the chamber is filled with water, I can make
it cold boil by simply reducing the atmospheric pressure. I have no
idea what will happen, but a little soap in the water might be a good
way to clean things without the risk of melting something from hot
water at atmospheric pressure. (Yet another project).

On 03/09/2019 10:41 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:


I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience using it in a lab.
It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180 degrees F.
I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water.
I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like taking the chain off.
:-)
Andy

Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic cleaning is
probably the best and most thorough method. However, getting the
lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential problem,
especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and rollers. This
is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix, pressure
cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your way through
the maze of chain lubes and application methods.


How do you guys find any time to ride your bike?

On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 15:14:16 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

What, Jeff? No vacuum pumps?

I have an Edwards 2 stage pump that needs new seals, filters, and oil.
I really don't want to risk it on chain lube experiments.

Put an inch or so of lube into pressure
cooker, add chain, close lid and then apply vacuum to extract all the air
from the interstices in the chain. When you release the vacuum, the lube
gets “pumped” into all the nooks and crannies.

Yep, that's the theory. I tried immersing the chain in hot light oil
and pressurizing the tank to about 180 psi. This forced the oil into
the pin and bushing joint. I assumed that when the pressure is
relieved, any trapped air would push the oil back out of the joint.
However, the pin and bushing are not a great air seal, and most of the
oil stayed inside the chain. I looked for bubbles but didn't see any.
PS: I don’t personally do this...

Well, it's not as much fun as a vinegar and baking soda volcano, but
does have its moments.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2019 4:05 PM, AK wrote:
On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 2:38:12 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:

I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain.
Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner
or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag?

I am open to recommendations to anyone who actually uses one of
those chain cleaners.

Paint thinner is a solvent (mineral spirits) and is rather slow
to evaporate.

Solvent Evaporation Rate Strength
(Minutes) (KB Value)
Denatured 91% Alcohol 3 Limited Solvency
VM & P Naphtha 4 38
Lacquer Thinner 2 100
Paint Thinner
or Mineral Spirits 60 35
Toluene 3.5 105
Xylene 12 98
Acetone 1 Infinite
MEK 2 Infinite
Turpentine 40 55
Kerosene 325 30

Some of the above are banned in the People's Republic of California by
the VoC Ban. If you want a fast clean, with low residue, methinks
acetone would be the best bet. Mixing it with paint thinner isn't
going to do anything useful. When the acetone evaporates, what's left
is the paint thinner, which will then slowly evaporate.

You might also want to try lacquer thinner. However, the modern stuff
is a mix of other solvents, which can vary:
https://ecolink.com/info/differences-between-lacquer-thinner-11-lacquer-thinner-48-and-lacquer-thinner-51/

Both acetone and lacquer thinner will attack plastics, rubber, and
some paints. If the area where you're working has any of these, don't
use these solvents. 91% IPA alcohol is evaporates quickly and is
probably good enough.

While you're at it:
1. Use gloves
2. Read the safety warnings
3. Use a respirator or do your cleaning outdoors.
4. Think about buying a parts washer:
https://www.harborfreight.com/20-gal-parts-washer-with-pump-60769.html
https://blastercorp.com/product/parts-washer-solvent/


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

You must never have used IPA on grease.

It does not dissolve grease, it requires an organic solvent.

Andy


Did you know that Jeff wrote about Iso Propyl Alcohol? = IPA

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I thought that IPA was "India Pale Ale".

On 9/3/2019 10:36 AM, Duane wrote:
On 03/09/2019 10:41 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 01:18:49 -0700 (PDT), AK

wrote:


I have an ultrasonic cleaner because of my experience
using it in a lab.
It is capable of heating the solution up to about 180
degrees F.
I use a cleaning solution of ammonia, dish soap and water.
I could use it to clean my chain, but I do not feel like
taking the chain off.
:-)
Andy

Cleaning the chain isn't much of a problem. Ultrasonic
cleaning is
probably the best and most thorough method. However,
getting the
lubricant back onto the bearing surfaces is a potential
problem,
especially since you can't see the lube on the pins, and
rollers. This
is where hot oil, solvent carrier, solvent oil wax mix,
pressure
cookers, and such arrive. You're on your own to make your
way through
the maze of chain lubes and application methods.


How do you guys find any time to ride your bike?

+1

I read here (by whom?) the term 'recreational chain
cleaning'. Apt description.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/2/2019 12:48 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2019 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT), AK
wrote:
I use paint thinner and an old tooth brush to clean my bike chain.
Is there anything I can spray on the chain to dissolve the thinner
or do I have to manually rub it off with a rag?

Solvents to remove solvents? Is that a thing? If he chooses to use alcohol, what should he use to remove that? Is it solvent infinite regress?

And then there is Plan B: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6mzE5lQ0w He has an accent. Believe him.

-- Jay Beattie.


Solvents for solvents:

When I was an undergrad intern at an electronics research facility, we
(I) had to ultra-clean items for use in vacuum. Leave bits of oil on
them, and they "out-gas," degrading the vacuum, or so I was told.

IIRC, the sequence was: 1) ?Alkanox? Alkaline cleaner - seemed like
Comet -- & water, ultrasonic for xx minutes. Then 2) Chlorinated
solvent (TCE??), ultrasonic for xx minutes. Then 3) Acetone,
ultrasonic, then 4) Methanol, ultrasonic. All under the vent hood, of
course. Drop something in between steps, you start all over.

So yes, solvents for solvents, but you probably don't need to
ultra-clean your chain, and I suspect you'd never succeed anyway.

My current chain-cleaning ritual:

1) Soak in (fairly dirty) mineral spirits overnight, in capped 2 liter
soda bottle. This thins the grease/muck.

2) Put chain in the heated ultrasonic cleaner (I splurged last year)
with a pretty concentrated mix of Simple Green and water, for something
like 10 minutes. This seems to get out the grit; I don't have the nerve
to put flammable solvents in the heated cheapo ultrasonic.

3) Rinse with fresh warm water in another 2 liter bottle, shake
vigorously. Maybe change water and rinse again.

4) Blow dry with jet from compressor (this year's splurge), then hang to
dry overnight.

Elapsed time is pretty long, but actual work time is under 10 minutes,
perhaps under 5. If I need to add an obsessive step, it would be to
rinse with clear water in the ultrasonic, but draining/refilling the
ultrasonic would take actual time.

Got a gravel bike last spring that I --gasp-- ride on gravel, and the
chain gets pretty dirty pretty fast, so I need to clean more often than
I did in my pure-roadie days.

Mark J.

I like to use naptha for all parts cleaning. Don't get too much of it on your skin for too long, and don't breathe the fumes too much. Use gloves.

The best buy in naptha is the 5-gallon container of "PSC 1000" from Crown Chemicals, available at Tractor Supply for $44.00:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-cleaner-5-gal

On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 6:25:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I like to use naptha for all parts cleaning. Don't get too much of it on your skin for too long, and don't breathe the fumes too much. Use gloves.

The best buy in naptha is the 5-gallon container of "PSC 1000" from Crown Chemicals, available at Tractor Supply for $44.00:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...-cleaner-5-gal

Thanks.

It's interesting that it is used in Coleman lanterns etc.

Andy