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#61
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frustration with bikes and cars
On Sat, 06 May 2017 04:17:11 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B Slocomb wrote: And, if the bureaucracy were able to solve the issues in China in the 20th century, why did the country disintegrate completely with the war lords running amok, not being capable of fighting of the Japanese, and why did it require an all but endless civil war and bloody revolution to get the country back on track? It is a rather complex subject but essentially China found that as they were, actually, self sufficient there was no reason to associate with the rest of the world and didn't. Unfortunately while China stagnated the rest of the world didn't, and when confronted with a vastly superior technology they disintegrated. OK, so they were over-confident and arrogant, and in the beginning they could back this up but soon that changed and they didn't. It is just like in fantasy and science fiction movies where the nemesis always loose because of over-confidence. Well over confident can have many meanings. The earliest ruling Chinese dynasty that can be identified with any certainty is the Shang Dynasty which ruled China from 1500 - 1046 B.C. Perhaps history gave them some confidence -) Actually when you meet Chinese people many seem cold and perhaps not exactly arrogant but not to eager to communicate either, put it that way. I am unsure if this is some cultural thing which I incorrectly interpret as arrogance or if that is actually what it is. I don't believe that is a racial thing. At least my wife, who's father was born in China isn't "cold and perhaps arrogant".... at least not all of the time :-) On the other hand, the Chinese term for China was, historically, "the middle kingdom" - half way between heaven and earth. And of course they do refer to any foreigner as a "Foreign devil" occasionally :-) Compare Japanese people which are very social and friendly (except when they drink alcohol). The native Japanese are distrustful of foreigners, to the extent that even a native born Japanese who spent a long period of time outside Japan are viewed with some suspicion when they return home. (what nasty foreign habits might they have picked up?) |
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#62
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frustration with bikes and cars
On 5/5/2017 8:44 PM, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 05 May 2017 23:00:37 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: Still, it doesn't seem they got that many things done Eh? What do you know about it? China ran MUCH better than most other countries. It had a population so much larger than any other country that if they didn't run efficiently they didn't run at all. China is so big, it is more like a world to itself than a nation like Japan, probably not even comparable to today's Brazil, Russia, or the USA. India is perhaps the only comparison? China of lore and legend is a completely different issue and there is no denying all the amazing things they did, but creative, industrial, and "monumental". Well, they did developer a system wherein the largest nation in the world fed and clothed their citizens far better then any other nation in the world. And they did this when the rest of the world was still wiping their butts with their fingers. At the height of the Qing dynasty (1644-1911) China ruled more than one-third of the world's population, and had the largest economy in the world. By area it was one of the largest empires ever. However in the 20th century and probably a couple of hundred years before that they seem to have lost something, which the encounter with the British shows. Not exactly as the encounters with the Mongols in the 13th century... Rather like Denmark, isn't it. After all the "Danes" conquered much of England and Ireland and ruled it up until somebody came along and kicked them off the throne :-) And, if the bureaucracy were able to solve the issues in China in the 20th century, why did the country disintegrate completely with the war lords running amok, not being capable of fighting of the Japanese, and why did it require an all but endless civil war and bloody revolution to get the country back on track? It is a rather complex subject but essentially China found that as they were, actually, self sufficient there was no reason to associate with the rest of the world and didn't. Unfortunately while China stagnated the rest of the world didn't, and when confronted with a vastly superior technology they disintegrated. You speak of Mongols with advanced technology like stirrups, I assume. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#63
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frustration with bikes and cars
stirrups ?
generalizing abt tech development in remote ancient China ? or abt Chinese attitudes when traveling in the West ? we have trouble generalizing abt the French and Indian War ...now Civil War ! If Berg wud sharpen his English reading skills try an ancient scifi: THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE Asians have an excellent hand eye coordination level. Feed well. Allow free time. |
#64
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frustration with bikes and cars
On Sat, 06 May 2017 07:39:27 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/5/2017 8:44 PM, John B Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 05 May 2017 23:00:37 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: Still, it doesn't seem they got that many things done Eh? What do you know about it? China ran MUCH better than most other countries. It had a population so much larger than any other country that if they didn't run efficiently they didn't run at all. China is so big, it is more like a world to itself than a nation like Japan, probably not even comparable to today's Brazil, Russia, or the USA. India is perhaps the only comparison? China of lore and legend is a completely different issue and there is no denying all the amazing things they did, but creative, industrial, and "monumental". Well, they did developer a system wherein the largest nation in the world fed and clothed their citizens far better then any other nation in the world. And they did this when the rest of the world was still wiping their butts with their fingers. At the height of the Qing dynasty (1644-1911) China ruled more than one-third of the world's population, and had the largest economy in the world. By area it was one of the largest empires ever. However in the 20th century and probably a couple of hundred years before that they seem to have lost something, which the encounter with the British shows. Not exactly as the encounters with the Mongols in the 13th century... Rather like Denmark, isn't it. After all the "Danes" conquered much of England and Ireland and ruled it up until somebody came along and kicked them off the throne :-) And, if the bureaucracy were able to solve the issues in China in the 20th century, why did the country disintegrate completely with the war lords running amok, not being capable of fighting of the Japanese, and why did it require an all but endless civil war and bloody revolution to get the country back on track? It is a rather complex subject but essentially China found that as they were, actually, self sufficient there was no reason to associate with the rest of the world and didn't. Unfortunately while China stagnated the rest of the world didn't, and when confronted with a vastly superior technology they disintegrated. You speak of Mongols with advanced technology like stirrups, I assume. Disregarding, for the moment, the stirrups that were a really innovative inventio. The first Mogul Dynasty, the Yuan dynasty (C.E. 1271 - 1368) lasted less then a hundred years. Hardly a moment in China's history. But the stirrup has been described as one of the most significant inventions in the history of warfare, prior to gunpowder. The Moguls weren't the inventor of the stirrup as it was used much earlier, There is some evidence that they might have been used as early as 500 B.C.E. but the first dependable representation of a rider with paired stirrups was found in China in a Jin Dynasty tomb near Nanjing dated approximately 322 C.E.; (Note: The abbreviations B.C.E. and C.E. refer to periods before Jesus Christ and the period after his death.) |
#65
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frustration with bikes and cars
The Moguls weren't the inventor of the stirrup ? same deal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailleur_gears globalization |
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