Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters andsidewalks

On Apr 21, 6:48 am, Steve Ball wrote:


I guess the harm is that's what good for the goose has to be good for the
gander. If cyclists can decide which traffic signs to obey and when, why not
motorists? I mean, if I car goes through a red light when there's no traffic
on then intersecting road, where's the harm? Do you want to apply this to
speed limits too? (Cyclists - even me - regularly exceed the posted 30 kph
in Sydney's Centennial park; motorists get booked.)

From what I see here in America, what's good for the goose is indeed
good for the gander. That is, everyone violates traffic laws.

I have a stop sign less than 100 yards from where I'm typing this.
Only about half the motorists come to a complete stop. I regularly
see motorists going through red lights. That's most often by
squeezing through a fresh red before cross traffic starts up, but I
regularly see deliberate disobedience of a light that was long red
(including one memorable one by a cop - no siren or emergency lights;
he just didn't want to wait). I see a majority of motorists exceeding
speed limits, and neglecting turn signals before turning or changing
lanes. I regularly see motorists violating the laws in other ways as
well - the list could go on and on.

Bicyclists and pedestrians do the same, of course. I believe the
major difference is not in frequency of disobedience, but in
consequences of disobedience. Bicyclists and pedestrians almost never
injure anyone but themselves by their mistakes. Motorists in America
routinely kill tens of thousands per year.

(However, that's does NOT give credence to the "bicycling is
dangerous!!!" nonsense. Most of those killed by motorists are
motorists. Only a very few are cyclists.)

In summary: People will not be perfect in their obedience to laws,
whether they are on foot, on two wheels or on four (or more). Yes,
the legal system does generally concentrate on motorist violations,
but that's only logical, since motorist offenses are the ones that do
almost all the harm.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Apr 14, 6:12*pm, ComandanteBanana
wrote:
Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...

NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.

That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
gutters and sidewalks.

WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

An irate driver ran over a bicyclist in southern Illinois in the
mid-90's.


Yes and?

A biker caused a multicar vehicle accident resulting in the death of a
mother and child in the same time period.

So?

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Apr 20, 11:30*am, ComandanteBanana
wrote:
OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
lions.

Bring your trike up here to Detroit, Comandante. We usually relegate
bicyclists to the morgue.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:27:51 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:36*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana

wrote:

Road rage runs rampant
on Bay Area highways

Say...isnt the Bay Area a hotbed of Liberalism?

So why are they so much more violent than everyone else?

I'm afraid some pro-gun conservatives have been sneaking in from the
red states...

Hey, wait a minute, California is kind of a red state. But they got a
smart Republican. The political jungle is very complex, I tell you.

The urban areas of California ARE Red sectors. They attract
leftwingers like flies to garbage.

The rest of the state of course, is mostly blue. We here in
California, like to think of the Urban areas as reservations where we
keep the leftwingers, so they cant do too much harm. Now if we could
do something about the leftwingers controlling the government in
Sacramento. Aaaanold is hardly a Conservative btw..at best, he is a
moderate Democrat who votes Republican.

Given that the Bay Area is a hotbed of Liberalism..San Fran being a
hotbed of ultra far leftwing extremist fringe kooks, and given that
most homicides in Californa are committed by minority
members..minorities that historically vote Democrat, its quite obvious
that leftwingers are homicidal maniacs.

Shrug...which is why I dont live in a major urban area, but simply
work there.
And legally carry a concealed firearm on my person, daily.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:41:28 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
wrote:

On Apr 21, 3:12*am, Steve Ball wrote:
Tom Keats:

In article ,
(Don Klipstein) writes:

* The main offense of cyclists against cars is running red lights while
cars that have green lights have expectations of right-of-way.

Bull****! *Riders do /not/ suicidally barge into
cross traffic. *No rational person does.

He didn't say they did. Just that they stop bikes run far more red lights
than cars generally do.

* Second to that, is cyclists stopping less for stop signs than cars do.

Bull****! *Obligatory stopping ain't a patch on
yielding and observing whether it's safe to go
or not. *Drivers might stop or slow down a little,
and then go, without looking at what they're getting
into. *We riders know that we can get totally ****ed up
by riding into what we're not looking at.

I'm both a cyclist and a motorist. I always stop at stop signs and red
lights in the car. It's easy. Cyclists have to uncleat, get out of the
saddle, put a foot down, and then get the hard-earned momentum back, and
tend to stop less often. I know, I ride in a bunch that runs more red
lights/stop signs in an hour than I do in the car in a year.

That's why I think the revolution will come on three wheels instead of
two. I've both bikes and now the new trike, but only the latter allows
me to give the right of way to a car while comfortably seated. With
the three internal gears, I just shift down to 1st... and there I go.

Actually, I consider myself a car! (but not a bully)


The big question is now..since you are much lower than before..how is
your visibility to other vehicles? Id hope you have a flag on a stick
of some sort to attempt to catch the attention of other vehicle
operators.

A friend of mine builds recombent bikes, and has had some really close
calls because of the lower profile and lower visiblity. He now puts a
flag on a bit of graphite tent pole when interacting with motor
vehicles. The is the reason many of the electric powered chair riders
do this as well. If you blend in...you wont be seen.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:29:51 -0500, "Edward Dolan"
wrote:

But thats the typical arrogance of many bike riders. They simply
cannot stand critism for their elitist outlook or their arrogance and
utter stupidity.

No wonder many die as the result of their actions. Darwin events
actually.

Pity

Gunner, who rides Cannondale, Trek, Paramount, but doesnt try to bully
vehicles outweighing him by many tons.
Nor do I! But you have a peculiar attitude for someone who rides bicycles.
Every cyclist who has ever ridden his bike on the open road has experienced
motorists who bully them because they do not want them on the road - period!
It is a wonder to me that more cyclists do not track down such motorists and
literally murder them!

And everyone who has ever drivin a motor vehicle around bike riders
has had the bike riders bully them.

Aw, poor Runner. So sad to be coward...

Those big manly guys on their 30 lb bicycles are such bullies,
especially when confronted by wimps in multi-ton masses of steel powered
by hundreds of horsepower.

Yeah...

Its a wonder to me that they simply dont just twitch the wheel a
smidge, far more often than they do.

What an asshole. Of course we knew that, but the fact that you
broadcast it as though you were proud of it.

Wow! Just "wow."

You are a paranoid nutcase Dedward and a Darwin event waiting to
happen.

Well, I have seen a friend run off the road. He came within inches of
probable death or severe injury. A friend was run over recently. She
was a pedestrian.

Face it, many people driving cars just do not take much care. I've
always taught my kids to be respectful of those without armor, but I
also tell them it is better to be alive than right. YMMV.

Dan

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
wrote:

Road rage runs rampant
on Bay Area highways

Say...isnt the Bay Area a hotbed of Liberalism?

Somewhat.

So why are they so much more violent than everyone else?

I fail to perceive of a single comparative in his statement.

Injecting a little editorial comment where it doesn't belong, eh?

Dan

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:44:39 -0700, (Tom Keats)
wrote:

In article ,
(Don Klipstein) writes:

The main offense of cyclists against cars is running red lights while
cars that have green lights have expectations of right-of-way.
Bull****! Riders do /not/ suicidally barge into
cross traffic. No rational person does.

You are claiming riders are rational people?

By definition. If they weren't, they would no longer be riders...

Ive nearly wiped out at least 5 such individuals over the last 10 yrs.

Yet you failed to follow through...

Second to that, is cyclists stopping less for stop signs than cars do.
Bull****! Obligatory stopping ain't a patch on
yielding and observing whether it's safe to go
or not. Drivers might stop or slow down a little,
and then go, without looking at what they're getting
into. We riders know that we can get totally ****ed up
by riding into what we're not looking at.

I guess thats why so many get killed or maimed running lights.

How many?

Third place is cyclists doing less yielding to the vehicle to the right
(when both vehicles arrive at the intersection at the same time) at
intersections controlled by stop signs or at uncontrolled
intersections.

4th place is cyclists getting adventurous at intersections controlled by
stop signs, while not all roads entering the intersection are required to
stop.
See above.

Motorists also offend.
You can say that again.

In my experience, motorists offend cyclists
worst by shifting lanes without prior warning via a turn signal.
In my experience, motorists offend cyclists worst
by signalling a right turn until a cyclist coming
up from behind hauls-up on their left side. Then
the motorist decides he wants to make a left turn,
and changes his turn indicators while the cyclist
can't see 'em. That ****es me off to no end. It
****es me off so much, I'd almost like to hunt those
drivers down and shoot their nose-tips or kneecaps
off with a well-scoped, set-triggered .22-250.

Ill remember that the next time a rider blows a stopsign right in
front of me, or a red light. I think my insurance will cover a new
front clip and windshield.

But I'm not a violent person. I don't wanna
have to hurt anybody. No right-minded person
does. So just stay outa cyclists' hair, and
all will be well.

Stay out of cyclists hair???????

You have trouble with standard English?

How about if everyone, bike riders as well, simply obey the ****ing
Vehicle Code?

That would be ideal. (Un)common courtesy would be nice as well.

As a pedestrian, I usually yield many of my right-of-ways to vehicles,
reasoning that any unnecessary delay I cause them is a waste of fuel.
As a driver, I usually yield many of my right-of-ways to pedestrians,
mainly because I am basically a nice guy.

Dan

On Apr 21, 2:23*pm, Cindy Hamilton
wrote:
On Apr 20, 11:30*am, ComandanteBanana
wrote:

OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
lions.

Bring your trike up here to Detroit, Comandante. *We usually relegate
bicyclists to the morgue.

No way, I rather go into the Congo jungle or even Iraqi jungle. A
bunch a killers in Detroit. They even killed the electric car!

On Apr 21, 2:37*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:41:28 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana





wrote:
On Apr 21, 3:12*am, Steve Ball wrote:
Tom Keats:

In article ,
(Don Klipstein) writes:

* The main offense of cyclists against cars is running red lights while
cars that have green lights have expectations of right-of-way.

Bull****! *Riders do /not/ suicidally barge into
cross traffic. *No rational person does.

He didn't say they did. Just that they stop bikes run far more red lights
than cars generally do.

* Second to that, is cyclists stopping less for stop signs than cars do.

Bull****! *Obligatory stopping ain't a patch on
yielding and observing whether it's safe to go
or not. *Drivers might stop or slow down a little,
and then go, without looking at what they're getting
into. *We riders know that we can get totally ****ed up
by riding into what we're not looking at.

I'm both a cyclist and a motorist. I always stop at stop signs and red
lights in the car. It's easy. Cyclists have to uncleat, get out of the
saddle, put a foot down, and then get the hard-earned momentum back, and
tend to stop less often. I know, I ride in a bunch that runs more red
lights/stop signs in an hour than I do in the car in a year.

That's why I think the revolution will come on three wheels instead of
two. I've both bikes and now the new trike, but only the latter allows
me to give the right of way to a car while comfortably seated. With
the three internal gears, I just shift down to 1st... and there I go.

Actually, I consider myself a car! (but not a bully)

The big question is now..since you are much lower than before..how is
your visibility to other vehicles? Id hope you have a flag on a stick
of some sort to attempt to catch the attention of other vehicle
operators.

A friend of mine builds recombent bikes, and has had some really close
calls because of the lower profile and lower visiblity. He now puts a
flag on a bit of graphite tent pole when interacting with motor
vehicles. *The is the reason many of the electric powered chair riders
do this as well. If you blend in...you wont be seen.

Gunner

"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, this is not a recumbent, just semi-recumbent. High enough to see
and be seen.

It's nicer than I was lead to believe by articles about uprights.
Maybe the small difference in the pedals makes the difference.