Specialized Roubaix (Comp or Elite) or Tarmac Comp or Pro (road bikes) - owners opinions?

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Just between you and me, why wait until February to buy a Trek with
the suspension feature (SPA technology, they call it) when you can
get a Klein right now? They're putting a *lot* of effort into the
Klein product, with some of the best paint & welding you'll find
anywhere. Nice spec too. And, if you read the piece on our website,
you'll see that I was very impressed with how well it rode. If there
was room in the garage for another bike, no question it would be a
Reve.

What is it about this bike's ride and handling that you prefer (or not) to your
5900(?), and how do you explain the difference?

Especially since it will take wider tires & fenders if you
want,

Now *that's* an improvement!

Matt O.

Just between you and me, why wait until February to buy a Trek with
the suspension feature (SPA technology, they call it) when you can
get a Klein right now? They're putting a *lot* of effort into the
Klein product, with some of the best paint & welding you'll find
anywhere. Nice spec too. And, if you read the piece on our website,
you'll see that I was very impressed with how well it rode. If there
was room in the garage for another bike, no question it would be a
Reve.

What is it about this bike's ride and handling that you prefer (or not) to
your
5900(?), and how do you explain the difference?

My 5900 (and prior 5200) does an exceptional job of eliminating road buzz.
Back in the day, before chip-seal was king, road surfaces seemed a lot
smoother. But today? Yuck! Seems like roads are worse each year, with
cheapie surface repairs done once in a while but rarely do they get the
repaving they need.

But big bumps- that's another thing entirely. That's where wider tires can
work wonders and, until I rode the Klein Reve, I thought that was pretty
much the only way to deal with nastily chopped-up road surfaces. Not
anymore. The elastomer bumper on the Reve does a wonderful job of taking the
edge off the nasty stuff, without the squishy feeling you get from a large
tire. You stand up and sprint and the bike still feels like it wants to go.
Climbing hard out of the saddle and there's nothing funny going on in the
tail end. Descend fast and you still feel like you're directly connected to
the bike.

There's a Northern California century in March called the Tour of the
Unknown Valley. We call it the Tour of the Unknown Pavement. Absolutely
incredibly route, but roads designed to knock your fillings out. The Reve
would be a great bike, a much better choice than my 5900. But roads like
that aren't what I commonly ride, nor do I get rattled on bumpy stuff as
much as some, so the 5900, for me, remains my bike of choice.

Especially since it will take wider tires & fenders if you
want,

Now *that's* an improvement!

There are trade-offs to get fender clearance, including a strange one with
the Campy-equipped Reve XX- it used Shimano brakes! Why? Because Campy
doesn't make a long-reach brake. But overall, the Reve is a winner. It
definitely brings something new & exciting to the party.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

What is it about this bike's ride and handling that you prefer (or
not) to your
5900(?), and how do you explain the difference?

My 5900 (and prior 5200) does an exceptional job of eliminating road
buzz.

I'm not a big believer in road buzz, that it even exists in the seat of the
pants. It's a noise thing, which tricks people into thinking they feel it. For
example, my new Klein always transmits some tire noise, where an older steel
bike would be totally silent. But this has no effect on the ride.

Back in the day, before chip-seal was king, road surfaces
seemed a lot smoother. But today? Yuck! Seems like roads are worse
each year, with cheapie surface repairs done once in a while but
rarely do they get the repaving they need.

Yup. It does seem like CA roads have gone to hell in recent years. The
freeways down south have potholes worse than Detroit's. Repairs and repavings
are extremely shoddy. Rough surfaces and bad repairs are one thing, but when
they smooth it all out with fresh pavement it's still all wavy. Then they leave
gaping seams that open up into potholes the next winter, etc. It's a disgrace.
CA used to have the best roads in the country. Now they're some of the worst.

But big bumps- that's another thing entirely. That's where wider
tires can work wonders and, until I rode the Klein Reve, I thought
that was pretty much the only way to deal with nastily chopped-up
road surfaces. Not anymore. The elastomer bumper on the Reve does a
wonderful job of taking the edge off the nasty stuff, without the
squishy feeling you get from a large tire. You stand up and sprint
and the bike still feels like it wants to go. Climbing hard out of
the saddle and there's nothing funny going on in the tail end.
Descend fast and you still feel like you're directly connected to the
bike.

I think there's some merit to this kind of design, if it's done properly. Big
tires do work, but if you let the tire absorb all the big bumps, it takes a toll
on rolling resistance. Let the frame squish and the tire squishes less, and
loses less energy.

I've had a few rides on a friend's Moots mountain bike, which climbed like a
goat with skinny tires. It was noticeably more comfortable on descents, and
handled rough corners better, without ever feeling like it soaked up pedaling
energy. I really liked that bike, but $2000 for a frame was a bit too rich for
me.

Another friend was experimenting with "softtail" mountain bikes back in the late
80s. He used elastomers from skateboard trucks, etc., but never really got it
right. If he had been able to actually engineer the thing by calculating the
loads and putting exactly the right material in there, he might have had some
success.

So it will be interesting to see how these new road bike designs work. I
suspect they won't affect speed or times at all (that's all fitness), but riders
may like them better. They may also feel more confidence-inspiring in rough
corners.

But overall, the Reve is a
winner. It definitely brings something new & exciting to the party.

I'll have to check these out. I'm sure one of our local shops will have one
in -- they're a Trek/Klein/Fisher dealer. The Specialized looks interesting
too.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
...
| Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
|
| What is it about this bike's ride and handling that you prefer (or
| not) to your
| 5900(?), and how do you explain the difference?
|
| My 5900 (and prior 5200) does an exceptional job of eliminating road
| buzz.
|
| I'm not a big believer in road buzz, that it even exists in the seat of
the
| pants. It's a noise thing, which tricks people into thinking they feel
it. For
| example, my new Klein always transmits some tire noise, where an older
steel
| bike would be totally silent. But this has no effect on the ride.
|


Noise can affect comfort and long-term efficiency by causing a
physiological stress response; the resulting tension is "uncomfortable" and
can lead to fatigue. The effect of noise on human performance is pretty
well documented.

Jean

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
...

Noise can affect comfort and long-term efficiency by causing a
physiological stress response; the resulting tension is
"uncomfortable" and can lead to fatigue. The effect of noise on human
performance is pretty well documented.

I'm sure it is, but probably not with respect to bicycles.

Matt O.

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:57:43 -0500, "Matt O'Toole"
wrote:


"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
...

Noise can affect comfort and long-term efficiency by causing a
physiological stress response; the resulting tension is
"uncomfortable" and can lead to fatigue. The effect of noise on human
performance is pretty well documented.

I'm sure it is, but probably not with respect to bicycles.

Matt O.

Dear Matt,

I hear (sorry, couldn't resist it) that professional
athletes often claim to perform better when urged on by more
crowd noise, except when playing golf or shooting free
throws.

Then they go home and fall asleep to the sound of the
fountains in their courtyards or the ocean on their beaches.

Carl Fogel

Noise can affect comfort and long-term efficiency by causing a
physiological stress response; the resulting tension is
"uncomfortable" and can lead to fatigue. The effect of noise on human
performance is pretty well documented.

I'm sure it is, but probably not with respect to bicycles.

Matt O.


Matt: I can't imagine anything that makes a bicycle so special that
"physiological stress response" wouldn't apply. For what it's worth, NASA
put a huge amount of effort into studying the effects of different-frequency
vibrations on humans. Obviously, there's a lot going on when one is rocketed
into space, and they needed to design things such that people performed as
optimally as possible under difficult conditions.

The most-dramatic issues were in the 10-30hz range, by the way.
Higher-frequencies had various negative effects (with road buzz
theoretically in the 400+hz range, so I am told), mostly dealing with
perceived comfort etc., but the lower stuff... yuck. Big increase in the
desire to urinate, for example. Actually, I can't think of much worse than
that...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in
m:

The Trek 2300 coming out next February? looks like a copy of the
Klein Reve. I wonder how they will compare to each other and to the
all carbon fiber bikes like the Pilot and the Roubaux. I HATE chip
seal and need a solution to road buzz.

Just between you and me, why wait until February to buy a Trek with
the suspension feature (SPA technology, they call it) when you can get
a Klein right now? They're putting a *lot* of effort into the Klein
product, with some of the best paint & welding you'll find anywhere.
Nice spec too. And, if you read the piece on our website, you'll see
that I was very impressed with how well it rode. If there was room in
the garage for another bike, no question it would be a Reve.
Especially since it will take wider tires & fenders if you want, so I
could retire the Iron Pig (my 1974 Cinelli, which is my current rain
bike).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

A Trek repreentative who was loaning bikes on Cycle Oregon this September
(Reve and Madone) told me about the Trek 2300 comming in February. He
said he thought the Pilot (all carbon with the rubber compound) would be
better than the Reve or the Trek 2300 at absorbing the buzz you get with
chip seal. 90% of my world is now chip seal. My hands buzz, my seat
buzzes, and feet--oh my feet--buzz. When I hit a strech that has no chip
seal the lack of buzz is stunning. The Reve and the Trek 2300 have the
elastomer, but with RIGID alumninum frames (I have an Klein Quantum--pre
Trek now). The elastomer would take up road shock, but my problem is the
vibration. My feet ache from the constant vibration after a 50-100 mile
ride on mostly chip seal.

The Trek guy didn't seem to have any reason to lie to me because he
represented all three bikes (Reve, new 2300, and Pilot). Still, I would
love to hear what the new group people think.

Alan Acock

MikeJ-Just between you and me, why wait until February to buy a Trek with
the suspension feature (SPA technology,

Revolutionary except Moots has been doing the same thing for about 25 years.

MikeJ-The elastomer bumper on the Reve does a wonderful job of taking the
edge off the nasty stuff, without the squishy feeling you get from a large

tire.

tee hee, good for you, the ultimate salesman.

On a Moots, Vamoots YBB, it does offer some rear suspension, very similar to
the Reve, with an elastomer and spring on the YBB, but around here, I wouldn't
say it's the way to go over a 'hardtail' road frame.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

acock-My feet ache from the constant vibration after a 50-100 mile
ride on mostly chip seal.

Tubulars, Vittoria Paves...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"