Mountain biker dies on trail

So he died of a heart attack, so what's new here. Rarely do road
pro-cyclists make it to age 60, most die before that from heart attacks.

Just for fun, and since I did my grad work in epidemiology, I worked
up the average age at the time of death for TDF winner from 1903 to
1980.
Seems like TDF winners make a good cohort ... all are/were
professional racers. All are well documented.
Take out Hinault since he is not yet 60. Remove n=10 because they are
over 60, but still alive.
Take out non "natural deaths" where cause of death is given.

Suicide n=2
WWI n=3
Shot to death/Murdered n=1
Beaten to death/Murdered n=1
Malaria n=1
Cancer n=1
Car crash n=1

And you are left with

Winners deceased possible of being 60 or over Average age 72.84 low
50 high 87
Winners 60 or over and still alive Average age 68.9
Winners who died under 60 n=6 Average age 55.83

Cyclists dying from heart attacks is very common.
-------------------
For one thing I don't know if your sample is correct, but let's assume it's
representative. Just by looking at your data, it's obvious cycling does NOT
EXTEND life, is that your conclusion too?

People dying of heart attacks is very common

Knew a guy who died from
a heart attack in a marathon, which really shocked the other runners.
What
they didn't know was he was an avid road cyclist.

The football coach at the university I went to for my under grad died
from a heart attack while riding a 20 year old chearleader, which
really shocked a lot of people ... And he wasn't an avid road
cyclist ... what's you point?

snip Blather snip

R

On Jun 11, 4:14 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus"
wrote:
So he died of a heart attack, so what's new here. Rarely do road

pro-cyclists make it to age 60, most die before that from heart attacks.

Just for fun, and since I did my grad work in epidemiology, I worked
up the average age at the time of death for TDF winner from 1903 to
1980.
Seems like TDF winners make a good cohort ... all are/were
professional racers. All are well documented.
Take out Hinault since he is not yet 60. Remove n=10 because they are
over 60, but still alive.
Take out non "natural deaths" where cause of death is given.

Suicide n=2
WWI n=3
Shot to death/Murdered n=1
Beaten to death/Murdered n=1
Malaria n=1
Cancer n=1
Car crash n=1

And you are left with

Winners deceased possible of being 60 or over Average age 72.84 low
50 high 87
Winners 60 or over and still alive Average age 68.9
Winners who died under 60 n=6 Average age 55.83

Cyclists dying from heart attacks is very common.

-------------------
For one thing I don't know if your sample is correct, but let's assume it's
representative.

Why would you assume that? Only a complete idiot would extrapolate
results for the general population based on the results for elite
racers.

Just by looking at your data, it's obvious cycling does NOT
EXTEND life, is that your conclusion too?

No I would not draw such a conclusion since it is a very small n and
not representative of the entire population. I would say that you are
full of it when you say "Rarely do road pro-cyclists make it to age
60, most die before that from heart attacks."

BTW it is not a sample. The population in this example is
"professional racers" who won the TDF (and could/have reached the age
of 60). If it were a sample I would have included an error analysis.

R

-------------------
For one thing I don't know if your sample is correct, but let's assume
it's
representative.

Why would you assume that? Only a complete idiot would extrapolate
results for the general population based on the results for elite
racers.

Just by looking at your data, it's obvious cycling does NOT
EXTEND life, is that your conclusion too?

No I would not draw such a conclusion since it is a very small n and
not representative of the entire population. I would say that you are
full of it when you say "Rarely do road pro-cyclists make it to age
60, most die before that from heart attacks."

BTW it is not a sample. The population in this example is
"professional racers" who won the TDF (and could/have reached the age
of 60). If it were a sample I would have included an error analysis.

-------------
So since you admit that all the stats you put up are pure crap, you have no
evidence to say my original statement is wrong.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:47:05 -0700, Bill wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 04:52:57 GMT, Bill wrote:
I actually like seriously stressing myself to see if anything breaks.
It might, and then you will not see me posting.
I exist to live life, not watch it.

There must be a name for that disease: you think that if you aren't
speeding somewhere, you aren't living, and you think that anyone who
isn't doing that isn't living. No wonder you come off as an ignorant
hick: you never spend any time LEARNING. Even the inventor of
aerobics, Cooper, said that super-exertion like you are doing is
completely unnecessary.

You are confusing me with the 20 something set. I run full out for the
heart rate max, and bike anywhere from 8 MPH goof off mode to around 18
when I want to get somewhere (on the road). I never trail ride at more
than about 12 MPH so I can see and maybe NOT run over a snake or
whatever. If there is a Blue bellied Skink I will pick it up and play
with it for a while, same as I do with rattle snakes.
Yes, I do catch them by the tail, and they get royally ****ed off, but I
know how not to get bit.
Chew on that tidbit, dimwit.

We are suposed to be impressed? Leave the wildlife alone. They weren't
harming you.

Bill Baka
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:50:49 -0700, "Bill Sornson"
wrote:

Callistus Valerius wrote:
I have never smoked, quit drinking years ago, Cholesterol is around
190, and heart attacks don't run in either side of my family.
Whenever I take my grandkids out to the park or beyond it is them
that get tired. I can ride at a sustained 160+ and have been doing
it since 1999 when I got serious about the bike. The running just
comes natural since I was the fastest kid in the whole school in 6th
grade. We had an annual 'all school' run around the school grounds
and I always came in way ahead of the other kids. I think it's
genetic on my father's side since he smoked himself into a stroke
(first one and final one) at 83, and on my mother's side 90's was
the norm. Running gets me to 160+ but I can't sustain it due to too
much cycling and different muscles. It isn't my heart or lungs
giving out, just my legs sprinting and burning out the short term
'twitch' energy.
Besides, if I manage to give myself a fatal coronary it will be
doing it enjoying myself, and not in an old farts home.
My father always told me "Use it or lose it." so I am using 'it'. As
long as I am physically capable of running I will continue to do it
as much as possible. Over the last few months I have been running
further and faster as I regain my running muscles, which are
apparently a separate set than riding muscles, since my riding
strength has not increased from running.
I actually like seriously stressing myself to see if anything breaks.
It might, and then you will not see me posting.
I exist to live life, not watch it. I can't watch sports on
television because it just makes me want to go out and get a game
going, which is pretty much impossible with my 50-60 year old
friends.
I can't even get a gang of teenagers together and away from their
play stations. My 15 year old grandson prefers his PSP over real
sports.
Sad but true. I think the news people are right in saying that we may
outlive our kids due to video games.
Bill Baka
-------------
Be very careful, I fear you are on the edge of disaster. The person
I knew, who died in the marathon, was the most fit person I knew. He
was only 40. http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/159854
"He froze and collapsed," said co-runner Marjorie Brinton, whose
husband watched Witkes fall.
-----
That's how quick it happens. Wiggy was an ultra-endurance athelete.
He did some insane 700 mile running event, I forgot what it was
called. The way you write reminds me a lot of how Wiggy use to talk.
I did some 300k rides with him, he would talk your ear off, but there
wasn't anything he couldn't do. After Wiggy went down, a lot of us,
including me, started to cut down on our training, watched those
heart rate numbers a little bit closer, keep it out of the death
zone, we aren't supermen.

Let not your heart be troubled. "Iron Bill" doesn't do one-twentieth of
what he claims. (He basically goes on "neighborhood scavenging" rides
looking for discarded computer equipment. Teenage girls know when to stay
inside.)

You are assuming he could actually CATCH one. Without getting a
coronary....

ROTFL

BS

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:49:22 -0700, Bill wrote:

Bill Sornson wrote:
Callistus Valerius wrote:
I have never smoked, quit drinking years ago, Cholesterol is around
190, and heart attacks don't run in either side of my family.
Whenever I take my grandkids out to the park or beyond it is them
that get tired. I can ride at a sustained 160+ and have been doing
it since 1999 when I got serious about the bike. The running just
comes natural since I was the fastest kid in the whole school in 6th
grade. We had an annual 'all school' run around the school grounds
and I always came in way ahead of the other kids. I think it's
genetic on my father's side since he smoked himself into a stroke
(first one and final one) at 83, and on my mother's side 90's was
the norm. Running gets me to 160+ but I can't sustain it due to too
much cycling and different muscles. It isn't my heart or lungs
giving out, just my legs sprinting and burning out the short term
'twitch' energy.
Besides, if I manage to give myself a fatal coronary it will be
doing it enjoying myself, and not in an old farts home.
My father always told me "Use it or lose it." so I am using 'it'. As
long as I am physically capable of running I will continue to do it
as much as possible. Over the last few months I have been running
further and faster as I regain my running muscles, which are
apparently a separate set than riding muscles, since my riding
strength has not increased from running.
I actually like seriously stressing myself to see if anything breaks.
It might, and then you will not see me posting.
I exist to live life, not watch it. I can't watch sports on
television because it just makes me want to go out and get a game
going, which is pretty much impossible with my 50-60 year old
friends.
I can't even get a gang of teenagers together and away from their
play stations. My 15 year old grandson prefers his PSP over real
sports.
Sad but true. I think the news people are right in saying that we may
outlive our kids due to video games.
Bill Baka
-------------
Be very careful, I fear you are on the edge of disaster. The person
I knew, who died in the marathon, was the most fit person I knew. He
was only 40. http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/159854
"He froze and collapsed," said co-runner Marjorie Brinton, whose
husband watched Witkes fall.
-----
That's how quick it happens. Wiggy was an ultra-endurance athelete.
He did some insane 700 mile running event, I forgot what it was
called. The way you write reminds me a lot of how Wiggy use to talk.
I did some 300k rides with him, he would talk your ear off, but there
wasn't anything he couldn't do. After Wiggy went down, a lot of us,
including me, started to cut down on our training, watched those
heart rate numbers a little bit closer, keep it out of the death
zone, we aren't supermen.

Let not your heart be troubled. "Iron Bill" doesn't do one-twentieth of
what he claims. (He basically goes on "neighborhood scavenging" rides
looking for discarded computer equipment. Teenage girls know when to stay
inside.)

ROTFL

BS


Sore Knee,
Between you and Vanderman we are full up with idiots here.
If you even attempted one-twentieth of what I have actually done I doubt
that a sissie boy like you would have survived.
Per Arnold, you strike me as a "Girlie Man".

Bill, you have to be a MAN, before you can be a girlie man....

Bill Baka
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:34:54 GMT, Bill wrote:

Callistus Valerius wrote:
Be very careful, I fear you are on the edge of disaster. The person I knew,
who died in the marathon, was the most fit person I knew. He was only 40.
http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/159854
"He froze and collapsed," said co-runner Marjorie Brinton, whose husband
watched Witkes fall.
-----
That's how quick it happens. Wiggy was an ultra-endurance athelete. He did
some insane 700 mile running event, I forgot what it was called. The way
you write reminds me a lot of how Wiggy use to talk. I did some 300k rides
with him, he would talk your ear off, but there wasn't anything he couldn't
do. After Wiggy went down, a lot of us, including me, started to cut down
on our training, watched those heart rate numbers a little bit closer, keep
it out of the death zone, we aren't supermen.


I could counter with the fact that being born is an automatic death
sentence, so I just overdo it until the day I drop. As I have mentioned,
there will be no 'rest' home for me. Full blast.....dead stop.
That is me.

Then don't let us catch you going to a doctor, or any other "girlie
man", for help....

Bill Baka
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:39:13 -0700, Bill wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 03:19:33 GMT, Bill wrote:

Vandeman's opinions = bad.
Bill Baka
My personal evidence is me.

I.e., demented.

If I didn't ride and run for fun I might not
be able to do it at all now.

Are you incapable of WALKING? Why is it that the only exercise you
are interested in is the kind that rips up nature? (I know, you never
answer questions, because it would embarrass you. You were the kid who
always mouthed off in class to hide the fact that you didn't know the
answer.)

Your dim wittedness is showing. I don't walk since I can run, on
pavement, not mountain trails. Kicking up a loose bit of pavement is
hardly damaging the wildlife. I only walk when I have to get somewhere
and not be sweaty. I don't need the bike 100% of the time. The other
fact that passes way over your head is that I have to ride about 30
miles each way to get to the isolated preserve area where I ride and
walk the trails.
Pay attention.

Okay, so you have to ride 30 miles to get to the trail. But why can't
you WALK on the trail? Why do you feel it necessary to bike them? A
real he-man like you shouldn't be taking it easy, by using an
energy-saving device such as a bike.

Bill Baka
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:42:41 -0700, wrote:

On Jun 10, 10:24 am, "Callistus Valerius"
wrote:
"He had rode ahead on the trail," Staton said. "When one of the bikers
got there, they found him off the bike. He was unresponsive."

He said fellow bikers tried to revive the man as emergency crews made
their way to the area on all-terrain vehicles. A cause of death had
not yet been determined, Staton said. The call was received just
before 11 a.m.

The identity of the man, believed to be in his 50s,

----------
So he died of a heart attack, so what's new here. Rarely do road
pro-cyclists make it to age 60, most die before that from heart attacks.

Just for fun, and since I did my grad work in epidemiology, I worked
up the average age at the time of death for TDF winner from 1903 to
1980.
Seems like TDF winners make a good cohort ... all are/were
professional racers. All are well documented.
Take out Hinault since he is not yet 60. Remove n=10 because they are
over 60, but still alive.
Take out non "natural deaths" where cause of death is given.

Suicide n=2
WWI n=3
Shot to death/Murdered n=1
Beaten to death/Murdered n=1
Malaria n=1
Cancer n=1
Car crash n=1

And you are left with

Winners deceased possible of being 60 or over Average age 72.84 low
50 high 87
Winners 60 or over and still alive Average age 68.9
Winners who died under 60 n=6 Average age 55.83

Cyclists dying from heart attacks is very common.

People dying of heart attacks is very common

Knew a guy who died from
a heart attack in a marathon, which really shocked the other runners. What
they didn't know was he was an avid road cyclist.

The football coach at the university I went to for my under grad died
from a heart attack while riding a 20 year old chearleader,

Which cheer was she doing?

which
really shocked a lot of people ... And he wasn't an avid road
cyclist ... what's you point?

snip Blather snip

R

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Callistus Valerius" wrote in message
ink.net...
So he died of a heart attack, so what's new here. Rarely do road
pro-cyclists make it to age 60, most die before that from heart attacks.
Cyclists dying from heart attacks is very common.


Actually, it's now been proven that all of these cyclists ate carrots at
some point in their lives proving conclusively that heart attacks are more
likely caused by the consumption of carrots rather than excess physical
exertion.

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com