Salsa Fargo touring road/MTB bike

wrote:

You need leverage, wide
hands, to control a bike in a cyclocross race. Having your hands by
the stem does not give you any control.

That's why real purpose-built off-road bikes, both pedal and
motorized, use wide flat bars with resilient handgrips and brake
levers on the outer ends.

Chalo

Per Ryan Cousineau:
Note that these CX bikes are set up so that the hood position resembles
what you'd see on a MTB with bar-ends.

That's where I am with my MTB bars. They're pretty comfortable
that way, but I'd say that riding on the hoods of road bars still
has the edge.
--
PeteCresswell

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

On Nov 4, 3:50*pm, Hank wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:10*pm, Chalo wrote:

Woland99 wrote:

...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.

Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?

I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.

Chalo

Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.

But would you use them in a cyclocross race? My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.

When folks got serious about riding off-road, the handlebars became
straight. That was not a coincidence either.

Drop bars are good for something (though I'll admit I have yet to
figure out what it is), but they are definitely no good for riding off-
road.

You should recuse yourself from passing judgement on drop bars.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
" wrote:

On Nov 5, 1:09*am, Chalo wrote:
On Nov 4, 3:50*pm, Hank wrote:





On Nov 3, 1:10*pm, Chalo wrote:

Woland99 wrote:

...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.

Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?

I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.

Chalo

Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.

But would you use them in a cyclocross race? *My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.


Thanks.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php...81102ispa-0310
Winner of the second superprestige cyclocross race riding the drops in
a skid.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php...81102ispa-0316
And another in the drops.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php...81102ispa-0335
And another.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/cross.php...81102ispa-0690
And another.

More accurately, they are all in the hooks.

In none of the pictures are there auxillary bar top brake levers.
Pros do not use those things designed for trail users. In all of the
other pictures on the Cycling News website the riders are riding on
the brake lever hoods. Not on the tops. You need leverage, wide
hands, to control a bike in a cyclocross race. Having your hands by
the stem does not give you any control.

--
Michael Press

PeteCresswell wrote:

Per Ryan Cousineau:

Note that these CX bikes are set up so that the hood position resembles
what you'd see on a MTB with bar-ends.

That's where I am with my MTB bars. *They're pretty comfortable
that way, but I'd say that riding on the hoods of road bars still
has the edge.

Another problem with riding the hoods off-road is that either the
brake lever perches can slip or break away from the bars or the bars
can slip in the stem, causing loss of control. I saw both such
problems several times during my days as a shop wrench. MTB bars
don't do either of those things (though other forms of flat and rise
bars can slip in their stems).

Chalo

On Nov 5, 6:30*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,



*Chalo wrote:
On Nov 4, 3:50*pm, Hank wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:10*pm, Chalo wrote:

Woland99 wrote:

...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.

Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?

I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.

Chalo

Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.

But would you use them in a cyclocross race? *My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.

When folks got serious about riding off-road, the handlebars became
straight. *That was not a coincidence either.

Drop bars are good for something (though I'll admit I have yet to
figure out what it is), but they are definitely no good for riding off-
road.

You should recuse yourself from passing judgement on drop bars.

Yeah, I guess being a riding enthusiast and bike builder for over
twenty years, and having tried out every kind of drop bar I could ever
get my hands on, doesn't qualify me to pass judgment on drop bars.
Especially compared to weekend warriors who _only_ use drop bars.

Chalo

In article
,
Chalo wrote:

On Nov 5, 6:30*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,



*Chalo wrote:
On Nov 4, 3:50*pm, Hank wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:10*pm, Chalo wrote:

Woland99 wrote:

...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.

Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?

I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.

Chalo

Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.

But would you use them in a cyclocross race? *My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.

When folks got serious about riding off-road, the handlebars became
straight. *That was not a coincidence either.

Drop bars are good for something (though I'll admit I have yet to
figure out what it is), but they are definitely no good for riding off-
road.

You should recuse yourself from passing judgement on drop bars.

Yeah, I guess being a riding enthusiast and bike builder for over
twenty years, and having tried out every kind of drop bar I could ever
get my hands on, doesn't qualify me to pass judgment on drop bars.
Especially compared to weekend warriors who _only_ use drop bars.

That is correct. It does not qualify you to pass judgement.

--
Michael Press

On Nov 5, 7:28*pm, Chalo wrote:
On Nov 5, 6:30*pm, Michael Press wrote:





In article
,

*Chalo wrote:
On Nov 4, 3:50*pm, Hank wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:10*pm, Chalo wrote:

Woland99 wrote:

...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.

Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?

I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.

Chalo

Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.

But would you use them in a cyclocross race? *My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.

When folks got serious about riding off-road, the handlebars became
straight. *That was not a coincidence either.

Drop bars are good for something (though I'll admit I have yet to
figure out what it is), but they are definitely no good for riding off-
road.

You should recuse yourself from passing judgement on drop bars.

Yeah, I guess being a riding enthusiast and bike builder for over
twenty years, and having tried out every kind of drop bar I could ever
get my hands on, doesn't qualify me to pass judgment on drop bars.
Especially compared to weekend warriors who _only_ use drop bars.

Chalo- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're also a morphological outlier, who hasn't found a drop bar that
works for someone _his size_. No meaningful data can be extrapolated
from your experiences that can be applied to the general population,
since off-the-shelf parts generally fit them. You're the guy who
machines and designs his own components because retail parts are
inadequate to your needs.

It would be as meaningful for me to tell my brother that size 10 1/2
shoes will hurt your feet and should be avoided at all cost, even
though that's his size, because I wear a 12.

Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Chalo wrote:

On Nov 5, 6:30 pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,



Chalo wrote:
On Nov 4, 3:50 pm, Hank wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:10 pm, Chalo wrote:
Woland99 wrote:
...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.
Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?
I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.
Chalo
Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.
But would you use them in a cyclocross race? My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.
When folks got serious about riding off-road, the handlebars became
straight. That was not a coincidence either.
Drop bars are good for something (though I'll admit I have yet to
figure out what it is), but they are definitely no good for riding off-
road.
You should recuse yourself from passing judgement on drop bars.
Yeah, I guess being a riding enthusiast and bike builder for over
twenty years, and having tried out every kind of drop bar I could ever
get my hands on, doesn't qualify me to pass judgment on drop bars.
Especially compared to weekend warriors who _only_ use drop bars.

That is correct. It does not qualify you to pass judgement.

Does the same standard apply to upright only riders commenting on
recumbents?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

On Nov 9, 12:33 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Chalo wrote:

On Nov 5, 6:30 pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,

Chalo wrote:
On Nov 4, 3:50 pm, Hank wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:10 pm, Chalo wrote:
Woland99 wrote:
...perhaps road bars are
not the greatest idea for off road - altho cyclocross folks
somehow deal with them.
Perhaps you have noticed that "cyclocross" brake levers are mounted on
the bar tops?
I think the hooks and drops are mainly decorative, part of the
heritage and lore of a sport that is more concerned with its history
than its present day.
Chalo
Chalo doesn't like drop bars? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
As high as the bars are on the pictured bike, compared to the saddle,
I can say that I'd spend probably 80% of my time on the ramps, hoods,
or tops, but during a headwind, I'd be really glad to have the hooks.
They're far from decorative.
But would you use them in a cyclocross race? My point is, CX bikes
sprouted bar-top brake levers for a reason-- that reason being,
cyclocross riders would rather steer the bike from there than from the
positions offered by a drop bar.
When folks got serious about riding off-road, the handlebars became
straight. That was not a coincidence either.
Drop bars are good for something (though I'll admit I have yet to
figure out what it is), but they are definitely no good for riding off-
road.
You should recuse yourself from passing judgement on drop bars.
Yeah, I guess being a riding enthusiast and bike builder for over
twenty years, and having tried out every kind of drop bar I could ever
get my hands on, doesn't qualify me to pass judgment on drop bars.
Especially compared to weekend warriors who _only_ use drop bars.

That is correct. It does not qualify you to pass judgement.

Does the same standard apply to upright only riders commenting on
recumbents?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

I made exactly such a disclaimer earlier in this thread: What Chalo
says about drop bars should be taken as seriously as anything I say
about recumbents and FS-MTBs.