Pedals Generally Getting Too (Scary) Light???

On Nov 16, 4:16*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Chalo schreef:

http://www.danscomp.com/465104.php

My local BMX shop has a great price on these. *I pull out the traction
pins so they don't brutalize my shoes. *They are not sub-400g, but
they are lightweight for their size and robustness. *They look good
and feel good.

I have a pair of those. What were they thinking when they put all those
pointy setscrews in, hitting your shin bone from time to time when you
walk your bike out of the garage.

Lou

They were thinking that the pedal needs to keep a good grip on your
shoe as you spin the bike around in the air. Picture you're riding
along, and you hit a jump and go for a spin. Partially through the
spin, your shoe slips off the pedal, because those pointy set screws
were too worn down to keep a good grip with your shoe. Your foot hits
the ground, where it stops. The bike and all it's momentum, along
with most of yours, continue on the same path. Problem is, your leg
is now in the way of that path. The result is not pretty at all. All
sorts of blood and gore and a somewhat clean shot to seeing your own
shin bone.

I'm not very good with a camera, but here's an example of what the
results look like about 10 years later. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...JkGmclcNfqVF7A
or http://tinyurl.com/56nmtm

Orin wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:16 am, "Pete Biggs"
wrote:
spincircles wrote:
Now I learn that some Look Keos were recalled.

http://cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08354.html

Because it was just 2004 and 2005 models with steel axles that were
recalled, the rest (later steel and all Ti) are presumably OK. I feel
confident enough to use them anyway, and for me they are comfortable
and good value for money. Not many others provide up to 9 degrees of
float, by the way.

It's ironic that the titanium axles haven't been affected, because
titanum is often said to be less reliable than steel. These do feel
scary-light to pick up - but there is no evidence to suggest that
they are any more likely to fail that the heavier steel ones. They
would have been recalled too if there was.


Don't be too confident. A local rider had a Look Keo that ISN'T on
the recall list break. His injuries were way worse than those
mentioned in the recall notice which if you read carefully, isn't all-
inclusive.

You can find one-off stories of freak failures with all components -
including heavy ones. Look have indentified and addressed a particular
design problem; I am reasonably confident that there is relatively little
chance of my "unaffected"* Look pedals failing. It is such a popular
product that this newsgroup and other forums would be full of more horror
stories if there was much to worry about.

recall notice which if you read carefully, isn't all-
inclusive.

* CPSC states "Ti pedals are not included in this recall", and this UK
notice clearly indicates that all Ti and all 2006+ products (including steel
axles) are not affected:

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/direc...keo_recall.pdf

~PB

schreef:
On Nov 16, 4:16 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Chalo schreef:

http://www.danscomp.com/465104.php
My local BMX shop has a great price on these. I pull out the traction
pins so they don't brutalize my shoes. They are not sub-400g, but
they are lightweight for their size and robustness. They look good
and feel good.
I have a pair of those. What were they thinking when they put all those
pointy setscrews in, hitting your shin bone from time to time when you
walk your bike out of the garage.

Lou

They were thinking that the pedal needs to keep a good grip on your
shoe as you spin the bike around in the air. Picture you're riding
along, and you hit a jump and go for a spin. Partially through the
spin, your shoe slips off the pedal, because those pointy set screws
were too worn down to keep a good grip with your shoe. Your foot hits
the ground, where it stops. The bike and all it's momentum, along
with most of yours, continue on the same path. Problem is, your leg
is now in the way of that path. The result is not pretty at all. All
sorts of blood and gore and a somewhat clean shot to seeing your own
shin bone.

I'm not very good with a camera, but here's an example of what the
results look like about 10 years later. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...JkGmclcNfqVF7A
or http://tinyurl.com/56nmtm


Those pedals came with my commuter. I don't do aerials with that bike
(or any of my bike). That kind of grip seems ridiculous for a commuter.

Lou

On Nov 17, 1:30 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
schreef:





On Nov 16, 4:16 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Chalo schreef:

http://www.danscomp.com/465104.php
My local BMX shop has a great price on these. I pull out the traction
pins so they don't brutalize my shoes. They are not sub-400g, but
they are lightweight for their size and robustness. They look good
and feel good.
I have a pair of those. What were they thinking when they put all those
pointy setscrews in, hitting your shin bone from time to time when you
walk your bike out of the garage.

Lou

They were thinking that the pedal needs to keep a good grip on your
shoe as you spin the bike around in the air. Picture you're riding
along, and you hit a jump and go for a spin. Partially through the
spin, your shoe slips off the pedal, because those pointy set screws
were too worn down to keep a good grip with your shoe. Your foot hits
the ground, where it stops. The bike and all it's momentum, along
with most of yours, continue on the same path. Problem is, your leg
is now in the way of that path. The result is not pretty at all. All
sorts of blood and gore and a somewhat clean shot to seeing your own
shin bone.

I'm not very good with a camera, but here's an example of what the
results look like about 10 years later. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...JkGmclcNfqVF7A
orhttp://tinyurl.com/56nmtm

Those pedals came with my commuter. I don't do aerials with that bike
(or any of my bike). That kind of grip seems ridiculous for a commuter.

Lou- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The pedal I slipped off in the above mentioned instance was actually a
bit more agressive than that pedal, but the pins were worn from
grinds, stalls, etc.

IME slipping a pedal is a LOT more painful than bumping one while
walking your bike, even if not getting airborne or doing tricks.
Riding style still plays a part for sure, but if you're really mashing
the pedals and slip, even just once, you'll understand what all those
pins and grip is for. Even fiddling around a parking lot or riding
down the street or a fire road, if I don't feel my shoes gripping the
pedals quite well I don't enjoy riding the bike. I've thrown out
pedals that didn't engage my sneakers enough in the past. Then again,
I don't think I've ever had a bike that didn't leave the ground, my
stops tend to be one-wheeled, and my input for other things is
sometimes very sudden and intense. So, while I may find myself
wanting more grip than your average commuter, I still hold to my
theory that too much is better than not enough. Slipping a pedal is
painful at best, and a real mess at worst.

So, while a pedal like this http://www.danscomp.com/469012.php?cat=PARTS
may be overkill for normal riding applications, I still think those
pins are a quality safety feature. Even if you only had a few, they
could still bank your leg when walking your bike. If there are no
pins, you run the risk of getting hurt a lot more severely. Walking a
bike without hitting yourself with the pedals isn't overly difficult,
I'd suggest working on your bike-walking technique before switching to
low-grip pedals.

I’m really surprised to hear that people are pulling all the pins and
riding on that smooth metal surface. Seems like a slipped pedal
waiting to happen, as well as a technique that would limit how much
power you can put down and how much of the pedal stroke you can use.
I’ve been thinking about ordering a set of bigger pins (or if they’re
not replaceable, new pedals with bigger pins) for my flat-pedaled
bike, actually. They grip OK, but I’d like a little more.

I am curious what you guys think of Performance Forte CR150 road
pedals. I used to buy Look pedals, but I had bearings fail on both
sets that I bought. The Forte pedals, on the other hand, have been
totally bombproof. Plus they are cheap as snot.

Retro

schreef:
On Nov 17, 1:30 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
schreef:





On Nov 16, 4:16 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Chalo schreef:
http://www.danscomp.com/465104.php
My local BMX shop has a great price on these. I pull out the traction
pins so they don't brutalize my shoes. They are not sub-400g, but
they are lightweight for their size and robustness. They look good
and feel good.
I have a pair of those. What were they thinking when they put all those
pointy setscrews in, hitting your shin bone from time to time when you
walk your bike out of the garage.
Lou
They were thinking that the pedal needs to keep a good grip on your
shoe as you spin the bike around in the air. Picture you're riding
along, and you hit a jump and go for a spin. Partially through the
spin, your shoe slips off the pedal, because those pointy set screws
were too worn down to keep a good grip with your shoe. Your foot hits
the ground, where it stops. The bike and all it's momentum, along
with most of yours, continue on the same path. Problem is, your leg
is now in the way of that path. The result is not pretty at all. All
sorts of blood and gore and a somewhat clean shot to seeing your own
shin bone.
I'm not very good with a camera, but here's an example of what the
results look like about 10 years later. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...JkGmclcNfqVF7A
orhttp://tinyurl.com/56nmtm
Those pedals came with my commuter. I don't do aerials with that bike
(or any of my bike). That kind of grip seems ridiculous for a commuter.

Lou- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The pedal I slipped off in the above mentioned instance was actually a
bit more agressive than that pedal, but the pins were worn from
grinds, stalls, etc.

IME slipping a pedal is a LOT more painful than bumping one while
walking your bike, even if not getting airborne or doing tricks.
Riding style still plays a part for sure, but if you're really mashing
the pedals and slip, even just once, you'll understand what all those
pins and grip is for. Even fiddling around a parking lot or riding
down the street or a fire road, if I don't feel my shoes gripping the
pedals quite well I don't enjoy riding the bike. I've thrown out
pedals that didn't engage my sneakers enough in the past. Then again,
I don't think I've ever had a bike that didn't leave the ground, my
stops tend to be one-wheeled, and my input for other things is
sometimes very sudden and intense. So, while I may find myself
wanting more grip than your average commuter, I still hold to my
theory that too much is better than not enough. Slipping a pedal is
painful at best, and a real mess at worst.

So, while a pedal like this http://www.danscomp.com/469012.php?cat=PARTS
may be overkill for normal riding applications, I still think those
pins are a quality safety feature. Even if you only had a few, they
could still bank your leg when walking your bike. If there are no
pins, you run the risk of getting hurt a lot more severely. Walking a
bike without hitting yourself with the pedals isn't overly difficult,
I'd suggest working on your bike-walking technique before switching to
low-grip pedals.

I’m really surprised to hear that people are pulling all the pins and
riding on that smooth metal surface. Seems like a slipped pedal
waiting to happen, as well as a technique that would limit how much
power you can put down and how much of the pedal stroke you can use.
I’ve been thinking about ordering a set of bigger pins (or if they’re
not replaceable, new pedals with bigger pins) for my flat-pedaled
bike, actually. They grip OK, but I’d like a little more.


I suggest you work on your 'riding bike without slipping of a square
foot of pedal' technique. I can do without those agressive pins thank
you. It is a commuter you know. I'm not in a race on that bike to my
work or grocery shop so I'm always sitting on my saddle. I replaced the
pointy setscrews with some flat headed SST torx screws. My foot doesn't
slip and I can position my foot more easily. If I want minimize the
change of slipping I use clipless pedals.

Lou

Lou

On Nov 17, 2:21 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
schreef:





On Nov 17, 1:30 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
schreef:

On Nov 16, 4:16 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Chalo schreef:
http://www.danscomp.com/465104.php
My local BMX shop has a great price on these. I pull out the traction
pins so they don't brutalize my shoes. They are not sub-400g, but
they are lightweight for their size and robustness. They look good
and feel good.
I have a pair of those. What were they thinking when they put all those
pointy setscrews in, hitting your shin bone from time to time when you
walk your bike out of the garage.
Lou
They were thinking that the pedal needs to keep a good grip on your
shoe as you spin the bike around in the air. Picture you're riding
along, and you hit a jump and go for a spin. Partially through the
spin, your shoe slips off the pedal, because those pointy set screws
were too worn down to keep a good grip with your shoe. Your foot hits
the ground, where it stops. The bike and all it's momentum, along
with most of yours, continue on the same path. Problem is, your leg
is now in the way of that path. The result is not pretty at all. All
sorts of blood and gore and a somewhat clean shot to seeing your own
shin bone.
I'm not very good with a camera, but here's an example of what the
results look like about 10 years later. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...JkGmclcNfqVF7A
orhttp://tinyurl.com/56nmtm
Those pedals came with my commuter. I don't do aerials with that bike
(or any of my bike). That kind of grip seems ridiculous for a commuter..

Lou- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The pedal I slipped off in the above mentioned instance was actually a
bit more agressive than that pedal, but the pins were worn from
grinds, stalls, etc.

IME slipping a pedal is a LOT more painful than bumping one while
walking your bike, even if not getting airborne or doing tricks.
Riding style still plays a part for sure, but if you're really mashing
the pedals and slip, even just once, you'll understand what all those
pins and grip is for. Even fiddling around a parking lot or riding
down the street or a fire road, if I don't feel my shoes gripping the
pedals quite well I don't enjoy riding the bike. I've thrown out
pedals that didn't engage my sneakers enough in the past. Then again,
I don't think I've ever had a bike that didn't leave the ground, my
stops tend to be one-wheeled, and my input for other things is
sometimes very sudden and intense. So, while I may find myself
wanting more grip than your average commuter, I still hold to my
theory that too much is better than not enough. Slipping a pedal is
painful at best, and a real mess at worst.

So, while a pedal like thishttp://www.danscomp.com/469012.php?cat=PARTS
may be overkill for normal riding applications, I still think those
pins are a quality safety feature. Even if you only had a few, they
could still bank your leg when walking your bike. If there are no
pins, you run the risk of getting hurt a lot more severely. Walking a
bike without hitting yourself with the pedals isn't overly difficult,
I'd suggest working on your bike-walking technique before switching to
low-grip pedals.

I’m really surprised to hear that people are pulling all the pins and
riding on that smooth metal surface. Seems like a slipped pedal
waiting to happen, as well as a technique that would limit how much
power you can put down and how much of the pedal stroke you can use.
I’ve been thinking about ordering a set of bigger pins (or if they’re
not replaceable, new pedals with bigger pins) for my flat-pedaled
bike, actually. They grip OK, but I’d like a little more.

I suggest you work on your 'riding bike without slipping of a square
foot of pedal' technique. I can do without those agressive pins thank
you. It is a commuter you know. I'm not in a race on that bike to my
work or grocery shop so I'm always sitting on my saddle. I replaced the
pointy setscrews with some flat headed SST torx screws. My foot doesn't
slip and I can position my foot more easily. If I want minimize the
change of slipping I use clipless pedals.

Lou

Lou- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My my, a bit touchy are we?

I don’t race bikes anymore. That doesn’t mean I want smooth metal
surfaces for pedals. This is the first you’ve mentioned of replacing
the pins with something else, which makes a whole lot more sense. At
that point you’ve got a basically normal pinned flat pedal. If
course, that could hurt you as well if you’re unable to walk your bike
without walking into the pedals.

If you’re not in a race you’re always sitting in the saddle? Also
interesting. Most people I know, myself included, like to come out of
the saddle from time to time, even when not racing! Sometimes to
crank up a killer hill, sometimes to stretch out after a bunch of
miles sitting, sometimes to hop a pothole, etc.

I’m sure I could ride on just the crank arms, sans pedals, if I were
to sit down and go super easy all the time. In fact, I have. The
only time foot slip is an issue is when pushing things to the limit.
I’ve yet to find a way to injure myself pushing the bike, however, so
I guess I’m still one up on you

Dan

Dan

On Nov 17, 2:17*pm, wrote:
I am curious what you guys think of Performance Forte CR150 road
pedals. *I used to buy Look pedals, but I had bearings fail on both
sets that I bought. *The Forte pedals, on the other hand, have been
totally bombproof. *Plus they are cheap as snot.

Retro

I don't use road specific pedals myself, but researched them a while
back before deciding to stick with SPDs. In my research, I found a
whole bunch of people very happy w/ the performance Look knockoffs,
and a couple weight weenies complaining of weight. I don't recall
hearing of any failures, and you're not the first I've heard of having
Look brand pedals fail in the bearings.

I also know a guy who rides Forte SPDs. The only issue he's had in
years was the result of a hard crash onto rocks, and it was a crash
that probably would have put a solid hurt on most pedals. I swear by
my 945s, as do many people who use them, but even they may have been
killed in this crash (although maybe not, mine have survived hundreds
of rock impacts, sometimes bearing my entire weight as I push over a
rock and sometimes cartwheeling down the trail without me). Aside
from smashing them off a rock really hard, I've heard of no Forte
failures on sealed bearing models. Factor in the price, and it'd be
worth a shot to me if I rode that style pedal.

schreef:
On Nov 17, 2:21 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:


My my, a bit touchy are we?

Not really I had a great day today.


I don’t race bikes anymore. That doesn’t mean I want smooth metal
surfaces for pedals. This is the first you’ve mentioned of replacing
the pins with something else, which makes a whole lot more sense. At
that point you’ve got a basically normal pinned flat pedal. If
course, that could hurt you as well if you’re unable to walk your bike
without walking into the pedals.

It sometimes does, taking the bike out of a crowded bike rack, but my
trousers don't get ripped now.


If you’re not in a race you’re always sitting in the saddle?

No, but when I'm on this bike I'm always in the saddle. All other bikes
have clipless pedals.

Also
interesting. Most people I know, myself included, like to come out of
the saddle from time to time, even when not racing! Sometimes to
crank up a killer hill, sometimes to stretch out after a bunch of
miles sitting, sometimes to hop a pothole, etc.

I live in The Netherlands. It is as flat as a pancake and good quality
roads and the commuting distances are short.
Come and look at our commuter bikes. No pins what so ever. Only some
rubberish material. Slippery as hell when wet but we manage ;-)

I’m sure I could ride on just the crank arms, sans pedals, if I were
to sit down and go super easy all the time. In fact, I have. The
only time foot slip is an issue is when pushing things to the limit.
I’ve yet to find a way to injure myself pushing the bike, however, so
I guess I’m still one up on you

Probably, I don't mind.

Lou

On Nov 17, 3:32*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
schreef:

On Nov 17, 2:21 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:

My my, a bit touchy are we?

Not really I had a great day today.



I don’t race bikes anymore. *That doesn’t mean I want smooth metal
surfaces for pedals. *This is the first you’ve mentioned of replacing
the pins with something else, which makes a whole lot more sense. *At
that point you’ve got a basically normal pinned flat pedal. *If
course, that could hurt you as well if you’re unable to walk your bike
without walking into the pedals.

It sometimes does, taking the bike out of a crowded bike rack, but my
trousers don't get ripped now.



If you’re not in a race you’re always sitting in the saddle?

No, but when I'm on this bike I'm always in the saddle. All other bikes
have clipless pedals.

Also
interesting. *Most people I know, myself included, like to come out of
the saddle from time to time, even when not racing! *Sometimes to
crank up a killer hill, sometimes to stretch out after a bunch of
miles sitting, sometimes to hop a pothole, etc.

I live in The Netherlands. It is as flat as a pancake and good quality
roads and the commuting distances are short.
Come and look at our commuter bikes. No pins what so ever. Only some
rubberish material. Slippery as hell when wet but we manage ;-)

I’m sure I could ride on just the crank arms, sans pedals, if I were
to sit down and go super easy all the time. *In fact, I have. *The
only time foot slip is an issue is when pushing things to the limit.
I’ve yet to find a way to injure myself pushing the bike, however, so
I guess I’m still one up on you

Probably, I don't mind.

Lou

Heard interesting and good things about the Netherlands. It would
probably be a cool place to visit sometime. Wet rubbery pedals
though? Ick. May as well have a governor on the bike. I guess if
you're just puttering around it'd be fine though. I rarely get on a
bike to ride less than 10 miles, and can't find 10 miles that don't
have hills involved, so we're clearly looking not only from different
perspectives in regards to equipment, but also at very different
terrain and "typical rides". At any rate, enjoy your riding, be it
with homemade pins or flat rubbery pedals. I'll stick with the
biggest pins I can find on my flat-pedaled bikes, and clipless
elsewhere.

Also, are you aware they sell replacement pin kits that are not hollow
or pointy? May cost less than the torx screws you're using. Depends
on local availability and cost, like a lot of things.