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I crash into religion



 
 
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  #1131  
Old May 23rd 06, 12:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Default I crash into religion

jtaylor wrote:
"Sorni" wrote in message
...
jtaylor wrote:
"Sorni" wrote in
message ...

While many mountain bikers and BMXers use such pads, most people of
course deem their head more important to protect than their limbs.
Gray matter, facial features, eyes, etc.

You wear a cycle helmet that covers your face and eyes?





(My comment, /in context/, was that most mtb-ers don't wear all the
elbow and knee pads and chest protectors, etc. They DO wear helmets
because the head is more important to at least /try/ to protect.
Yours may not be.)


But why, then, did you say "facial features, eyes, etc."


Because along with helmets most mountain bikers wear -- gasp -- protective
eyewear. (As for "facial features", a regular helmet can help protect them
in some circumstances; and I suppose that some mtb-ers wear mouth-guards,
too.)

The /point/ of my comment was that most mountain bikers don't wear "Star
Wars" plastic courage pads and armor.

BTW, you gonna hump EVERY post I make from now on -- including revisiting
ones from almost two weeks ago?

Are you subscribing to the supposed magical protective properties of
helmets - y'know, like the ability to prevent something like 75% of
leg injuries?


Please find a quote from me suggesting anything remotely like that.

{blowing tumbleweed wave file goes here}


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  #1132  
Old May 23rd 06, 03:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Default I crash into religion


jtaylor wrote:
"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 May 2006 07:55:50 -0300, "jtaylor"
wrote:

You wear a cycle helmet that covers your face and eyes?


Some do -- those motorcycle-style helmet with moutgaurds and face
masks. I saw a bike messenger in an actual motorcycle helmet, on the
road, on Friday.


Good god, next we'll have MFFHL's (Manditory Full-Face Helmet Laws).


Don't laugh. Thompson & Rivara, of "85%" fame, produced one paper that
wailed about injuries to the chins and lower faces of cyclists, and
pointed out that helmets with rigid chin guards would reduce these
tragedies.

I don't recall if they called for making these mandatory, as they do
for other helmets. If there's interest, I can dig out a citation.

- Frank Krygowski

  #1133  
Old May 23rd 06, 09:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Default I crash into religion


"Sorni" wrote in message
news

Are you subscribing to the supposed magical protective properties of
helmets - y'know, like the ability to prevent something like 75% of
leg injuries?


Please find a quote from me suggesting anything remotely like that.


Well, basically any post you make which

a) indicates that you believe that helmets have a population level benefit

b) says you know so-and-so and he/she had such-and-such an accident and
his/her helemt saved their life

falls into that category...


  #1134  
Old May 23rd 06, 04:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Default I crash into religion

jtaylor wrote:
"Sorni" wrote in message
news

Are you subscribing to the supposed magical protective properties of
helmets - y'know, like the ability to prevent something like 75% of
leg injuries?


Please find a quote from me suggesting anything remotely like that.


Well, basically any post you make which

a) indicates that you believe that helmets have a population level
benefit


Don't recall ever saying that, but yes I think cyclists /in general/ are
safer wearing helmets; and that I, in particular, am because of the type of
riding I do. Just by coincidence, the 50 or 60 other cyclists I know or
have known personally all seem to think the same, as they all wear lids,
too. And then, of course, there are the literally thousands I've seen on
trails and roads, and the vast majority apparently agree, as well. It's
quite unusual to see a "real cyclist" around here riding lidless. Sorry.


b) says you know so-and-so and he/she had such-and-such an accident
and his/her helemt saved their life


I've never* claimed a helmet saved anyone's life (including my own). Sorry.

*It's possible I /may/ have said or thought that many years ago, but reading
more about the issue has pretty much convinced me that it's highly unlikely
(although not impossible in far-fetched scenarios)...

Sorry.


  #1135  
Old May 23rd 06, 05:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Default I crash into religion

Sorni wrote:

Don't recall ever saying that, but yes I think cyclists /in general/ are
safer wearing helmets; and that I, in particular, am because of the type of
riding I do. Just by coincidence, the 50 or 60 other cyclists I know or
have known personally all seem to think the same, as they all wear lids,
too. And then, of course, there are the literally thousands I've seen on
trails and roads, and the vast majority apparently agree, as well. It's
quite unusual to see a "real cyclist" around here riding lidless. Sorry.


One million lemmings can't be wrong eh? Many professional sports people
have curious rituals that they have to perform to give them luck. They
are convinced they work but I doubt any of us would give them much credence.

What you say about cyclists in the US is very true and I have found very
strongly held views to be very common there. I believe 38% of US
cyclists wear a helmet compared with 22% in the UK yet the UK head
injury rate per bn km is half that of the US despite the narrower roads,
more aggressive driving and much higher traffic density and speed in the
UK. In the Netherlands where its only 0.1%, head injury rates are a
further factor of three lower.

Meanwhile in your own backyard of San Diego where there is an MHL for
under 18's, Ji et al noted "Despite the increase of helmet use, we were
not able to show significant reduction of serious head injury rates over
the study period."



I've never* claimed a helmet saved anyone's life (including my own). Sorry.

*It's possible I /may/ have said or thought that many years ago, but reading
more about the issue has pretty much convinced me that it's highly unlikely
(although not impossible in far-fetched scenarios)...


So you disagree with Todd's view that they twice saved his life?


--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci
  #1136  
Old May 23rd 06, 11:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,uk.rec.cycling
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Default I crash into religion

On Tue, 23 May 2006 17:42:26 +0100, Tony Raven
wrote:

Sorni wrote:

Don't recall ever saying that, but yes I think cyclists /in general/ are
safer wearing helmets; and that I, in particular, am because of the type of
riding I do. Just by coincidence, the 50 or 60 other cyclists I know or
have known personally all seem to think the same, as they all wear lids,
too. And then, of course, there are the literally thousands I've seen on
trails and roads, and the vast majority apparently agree, as well. It's
quite unusual to see a "real cyclist" around here riding lidless. Sorry.


One million lemmings can't be wrong eh? Many professional sports people
have curious rituals that they have to perform to give them luck. They
are convinced they work but I doubt any of us would give them much credence.


I was and still am a hobby cyclist (except for a brief period working
as a messenger) but for sure the helmet was a big part of my
demonstrating to myself and the cycling community that I was
"serious."

JT

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