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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
A friend of mine was, yes arrested, for riding a bicycle in a
"dangerous manner". I was curious to know if cyclists are bound by the same laws and rules as motor vehicles (on roads)? Surely doubtful the cyclist was in breach of the highway code by say doing over 40 on a 30mph road? I wasn't even aware that the motor vehicle driving licence test was mandatory for cyclists? The arrest came after the officers had no fixed penalty notices on them? Hearing this story I found it absolutely bizarre. |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
MO wrote:
A friend of mine was, yes arrested, for riding a bicycle in a "dangerous manner". I was curious to know if cyclists are bound by the same laws and rules as motor vehicles (on roads)? Surely doubtful the cyclist was in breach of the highway code by say doing over 40 on a 30mph road? I wasn't even aware that the motor vehicle driving licence test was mandatory for cyclists? www.highwaycode.gov.uk We don't need driving licences, but laws still applies. The arrest came after the officers had no fixed penalty notices on them? Hearing this story I found it absolutely bizarre. I would be surprised if the plod nicked him, unless he was doing something very stupid/dangerous. The plod would not want to waste his own time. Martin. |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
MO wrote on 24/04/2007 21:44 +0100:
A friend of mine was, yes arrested, for riding a bicycle in a "dangerous manner". I was curious to know if cyclists are bound by the same laws and rules as motor vehicles (on roads)? Surely doubtful the cyclist was in breach of the highway code by say doing over 40 on a 30mph road? I wasn't even aware that the motor vehicle driving licence test was mandatory for cyclists? The arrest came after the officers had no fixed penalty notices on them? Hearing this story I found it absolutely bizarre. There is an offence of dangerous cycling in the Road Traffic Act 1991: "28. — (1) A person who rides a cycle on a road dangerously is guilty of an offence. (2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above a person is to be regarded as riding dangerously if (and only if)— (a)the way he rides falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful cyclist, and (b)it would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist that riding in that way would be dangerous. (3) In subsection (2) above “dangerous” refers to danger either of injury to any person or of serious damage to property; and in determining for the purposes of that subsection what would be obvious to a competent and careful cyclist in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he could be expected to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused." Doing 40mph in a 30mph limit is not in itself illegal on a bicycle - the speed limits do not apply to bicycles - so it would depend on how he was riding. The Highway Code is irrelevant. It is not the law and you cannot be prosecuted for disobeying the Highway Code. You need to look at the laws referred to in the Highway Code. -- Tony "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
In message .com, MO
writes A friend of mine was, yes arrested, for riding a bicycle in a "dangerous manner". I was curious to know if cyclists are bound by the same laws and rules as motor vehicles (on roads)? Well some of them yes (such as stopping at red traffic lights), some of them not (such as speeding), there are some that apply just to pedal cycles. Surely doubtful the cyclist was in breach of the highway code by say doing over 40 on a 30mph road? Well, it most likely is in breach of some part of the highway code, I'm not going to look it up. Speed limits as such do not apply to cyclists. But I have heard of other cases of cyclists being charged with this offence (or a similar archaic sounding 'furious cycling' IIRC) for cycling faster than the motor vehicle speed limit. It's not for breach of the speed limit per se, but presumably the rationale would be that if someone is cycling significantly faster than the speed limit, then that could be dangerous and a risk to other road users. I wasn't even aware that the motor vehicle driving licence test was mandatory for cyclists? It isn't. But what's that got to do with it? You don't have to have a driving licence to be charged with motor vehicle offences when driving. We still have a responsibility as cyclist to cycle within the law. The arrest came after the officers had no fixed penalty notices on them? The arresting aspect seems a bit unusual. Hearing this story I found it absolutely bizarre. You friend is probably a bit unlucky here -- Chris French |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
Tony Raven wrote:
Doing 40mph in a 30mph limit is not in itself illegal on a bicycle - the speed limits do not apply to bicycles - so it would depend on how he was riding. I wonder if rule number 50[1] in the "Rules for cyclists" section - "You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals." actually means "You MUST only obey /some/ traffic signs". [1] http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm#50 -- Matt B |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
Matt B writes:
Tony Raven wrote: Doing 40mph in a 30mph limit is not in itself illegal on a bicycle - the speed limits do not apply to bicycles - so it would depend on how he was riding. I wonder if rule number 50[1] in the "Rules for cyclists" section - "You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals." actually means "You MUST only obey /some/ traffic signs". [1] http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm#50 You must obey signs - but the sign intructs you to obey the relevant law, which is quite explicit in applying to motor vehicles only. This is has been done to death before. The law on speed limits applies only to the drivers of motor vehicles, and nothing in the law relating to signage makes it apply to anyone else. I agree that it's not that clear from the HC - but read the legislation and it's clear. (FWIW there are local by-laws in some places - Richmond Park springs to mind - where limits on cycles are in place.) |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
Paul Rudin wrote on 25/04/2007 06:10 +0100:
Matt B writes: This is has been done to death before. And yet you still respond to Troll B. Curious. -- Tony "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
chris French wrote on 24/04/2007 22:34 +0100:
Well, it most likely is in breach of some part of the highway code, I'm not going to look it up. Speed limits as such do not apply to cyclists. But I have heard of other cases of cyclists being charged with this offence (or a similar archaic sounding 'furious cycling' IIRC) for cycling faster than the motor vehicle speed limit. The last such case was Tony Adams in Cambridge in IIRC 1997. He was cycling below the speed limit but doing so on a city street busy with pedestrians "training for a time trial". It was the manner and circumstances of his cycling not the speed that led to the charge. It's not for breach of the speed limit per se, but presumably the rationale would be that if someone is cycling significantly faster than the speed limit, then that could be dangerous and a risk to other road users. Insufficient for a dangerous cycling charge. It has to be obvious that there is a danger of injury to a third party or serious damage to property for the charge to stick. Just exceeding the motor vehicle speed limit on a quiet road in insufficient but since when did many policemen know the law. I wasn't even aware that the motor vehicle driving licence test was mandatory for cyclists? It isn't. But what's that got to do with it? You don't have to have a driving licence to be charged with motor vehicle offences when driving. We still have a responsibility as cyclist to cycle within the law. Lad near us got points recorded for if and when he ever applies for a license for driving without one. His friend in the passenger seat got points on his provisional license having been judged to be supervising a learner driver and therefore able to be charged also with a driving offence. -- Tony "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell |
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
Paul Rudin wrote:
Matt B writes: Tony Raven wrote: Doing 40mph in a 30mph limit is not in itself illegal on a bicycle - the speed limits do not apply to bicycles - so it would depend on how he was riding. I wonder if rule number 50[1] in the "Rules for cyclists" section - "You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals." actually means "You MUST only obey /some/ traffic signs". [1] http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm#50 You must obey signs - but the sign intructs you to obey the relevant law, which is quite explicit in applying to motor vehicles only. This is has been done to death before. Yes, I know. I wasn't questioning whether speed limits applied, or even /should/ apply, to bikes, but whether the HC is inaccurate in its use of the "MUST" word. snip -- Matt B |
#10
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Legal standpoint of cycling and road use
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:10:09 +0100, Paul Rudin wrote:
Matt B writes: Don't feed the Troll. |
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