Firecrackers!

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:24:06 -0500, Kevan Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:41:58 -0500, "di" from Cox
Communications wrote:

"Kevan Smith" wrote in message

Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely
a
chase or bite?

No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.


I can read and also reason, if your water plan doesn't work you probably
won't have time for another option. I prefer to use a more effective way to
stop them before getting attacked.

You likely won't be attacked if the water plan fails, which I have never seen
happen. But, if you want a plan B, I suggest improving your sprint.

I'll say it again: If I ever see someone spraying ammonia on a dog, I'm
calling the cops and reporting it and seeing it through to the end. Obviously,
_you_ don't have to worry about that.

Neither do I Kevan. People don't rely on cops here - they take care
of their own business (a concept foreign to socialists).

As difficult as this may seem to you Kevan, no one requires your
permission or approval. No one.

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:21:53 -0500, Kevan Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:58:57 GMT, Mark Mitchell
from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:


And a child throwing rocks/snowballs at cars is not malicious. It is usually play.

It is wrong though. In the same way that a dog chasing a bicyclist is
wrong. And it should be discouraged. If the owner is not willing to take
responsibility for the safety (whether the threat is real or not) of
others, I have no problem correcting the dog myself.

A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little choice in the matter.
If the instinct is strong enough, no amount of your "correction" is going to
stop it. The way we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive
directions.

That goes right along with the other socialist agenda - that one's
sexual orientation is what it is, and that peple shouldn't be forced
to accept other's *judgements* but left to their own instinct.

So, we let dogs bite people, and pedophiles abuse children, right?

Kevan, I have come to the inalterable conclusion that you are gay.
Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 21:42:53 -0700, (Tom Keats)
wrote:

In article ,
Michael J. Klein writes:

Another assumption is that a chasing dog is someone's pet. Depending
upon where one lives, that may or may not be the case. Where I live,
the wild dog popluation frequently overtakes, kills and eats humans.
Water doesn't "shock" wild animals very much.

Yes, feral dog packs are something else altogether, and nothing I'd
want to encounter (although i have seen them from a distance, chasing
deer down.) A pack of dogs can be so overwhelming, I wouldn't know
whether water, ammonia, firecrackers or small arms would afford
much of a defense from them.

I snapped a pic of some once, roaming the streets in south Taiwan (I
just reviewed the photographs of that time, and I have 2 shots of the
wild dogs). My host suggested that I get back in the car as the
previous week an eldery woman had been killed and eaten by them.

A couple of decades ago, somebody had the bright idea of
setting some 'wild' Black Forest boars loose in the upper
Fraser Valley in British Columbia. They tree'd a fair
number of hikers. I don't think squirting stuff at them
would have backed them off, either. Except maybe
barbecue sauce ;-)

hahaha! Dunno what they were thinking huh?

Back when I lived in the US, I was walking my dog, who was a rescued
animal. She was very nervous and didn't like to be approached by
other dogs. One night it was pitch black (as it often is in NH) and I
heard 2 things - growling and toenails on pavement - the neighbor's
dog had gotten loose and was running towards my dog at full spee!. I
had my right hand on my 9mm and was just about to draw when the dog
suddenly stopped dead in its tracks and turned around.

I can only conclude that Kevin must have willed it to be so.
Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

In article ,
Kevan Smith writes:

A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little choice in the matter.
If the instinct is strong enough, no amount of your "correction" is going to
stop it. The way we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive
directions.

Chasing is one thing, but viciously attacking is quite another.
whenever vicious pit bulls, rottweillers, etc attack, maul
or even kill citizens, it gets a lot of media attention, and
rightly so. Especially when the dogs' owners are named.

But maybe all that media attention colours people's notions
about dogs in general. Nothing like the media to stir up
a seething pot of paranoia and fear. Sometimes (albeit
relatively rarely), it's justified. But in most cases where
vicious dogs have seriously hurt or even killed people, I
doubt any sort of weaponry would have helped anyway, because
it seems to me, most of those victims were in a state of panic,
and generally have been children and smaller women. I'm not
saying children and women are incapable of protecting
themselves -- just that those seem to be the size of people
that vicious dogs tend to go after.

It helps to know the difference between a nippy li'l border
collie that wants to herd you, a wolf-y type dog (like
samoyeds and huskies) that just wants to tag along with you,
and a bloodthirsty pair of pit bulls with a hair up their
collective ass about killing something. And, as Ron Hardin
previously mentioned, to be able to read their body language.
Unfortunately, not everybody can, and I'm not so sure they
should be expected to. I guess to some folks, a dog is a dog
is a (vicious) dog.

Anyways, screw weapons!


klahowya,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Anyways, screw weapons!

A strange way to end what had been an intelligent and reasonable opinion about
dogs, etc.


James S. Prine
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

Kevan Smith wrote:

"di" from Cox Communications wrote:
Kevan wrote:
You're going from chasing to biting. If a dog is biting you, sure, defend
yourself. Spraying a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is
merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs just do it for play,
not to commit harm. And, as I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I
have seen it work many times.

Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to determine if it's merely a
chase or bite?

No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to freakin' read.

Somebody said he'd tried water, to no effect. What about mixing a
LITTLE ammonia with the water? Or do you have a better suggestion? I'm
not a fast rider, and just about any dog larger than a toy poodle can
easily catch me. I can do a good enough angry bear imitation to scare
off most dogs, but it doesn't work when I'm on my bike.

--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------------------
"The primary purpose of any government entity
is to employ the unemployable."

Ammonia is a caustic substance that can blind you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Aside from all the legal, ethical and moral questions, I question the
practicality of carrying a water pistol loaded with ammonia. Ammonia
evaporates, so how long would a batch remain effective? And, wouldn't you
likely smell like old urine?

Aside: I recall once while riding a motorcycle, having a "viscious" dog
rush out after me. I could easily have outrun him, but, out of curiosity, I
stopped. (I was wearing boots, so I wasn't too worried about being bitten.
I spoiled the poor dog's game. He stopped, wagged his tail, growled, wagged
his tail, sniffed my leg, and just didn't know what to do. As I rode off,
he just watched me.

In article ,
othanks (James S. Prine) writes:

Anyways, screw weapons!

A strange way to end what had been an intelligent and reasonable opinion about
dogs, etc.

Not necessarily. Weapons do much more harm than good.
The last thing this world needs is to be turned into
an arsenal. The first thing it needs is a global
block party.

As for weapons, it seems to me the average civilian
(such as myself) who might once in a blue moon need
'em, can't use 'em. All possessing a weapon does is
add to the inventory. Oh, I've killed my share of
upland fowl, and other delicious life forms such
as various salmonids. I've never feared for my life
from pheasants or grouse or trout, though. I also
used to be into muzzle-loader, black powder target stuff.
That wasn't weapon-oriented either; that was just about
the sport of trying to shoot a 5-shot one-holer in paper
at 100 yards w/ open sights -- which at one time in my
youth, I was actually able to approach.

In my previous post I mentioned how some folks might think:
'a dog is a dog is a dog'. Up here in Canada, a gun is a
gun is a gun, and they're all 'weapons'. So a li'l
single-shot, swingable, slightly-modified-choked 4/10 is
equiv to an M-16. But I've grown out of all that crap
anyway (but not my taste for roast pheasant, or a mess
of pan-fried brook trout for breakfast.)

And the people who actually want weapons, don't really
need 'em. And a lot of those people IMO /shouldn't/
have 'em.

I just think it's better to concentrate more on helpin'
rather than hurtin'.


klahowya,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2004-06-21, Kevan Smith wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:58:57 GMT, Mark Mitchell
from BellSouth Internet Group wrote:


And a child throwing rocks/snowballs at cars is not malicious. It is usually play.

It is wrong though. In the same way that a dog chasing a bicyclist is
wrong. And it should be discouraged. If the owner is not willing to take
responsibility for the safety (whether the threat is real or not) of
others, I have no problem correcting the dog myself.

A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little choice in the matter.
If the instinct is strong enough, no amount of your "correction" is going to
stop it. The way we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive
directions.

I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.

A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that negative reinforcement
(correction) is inappropriate. Meditate on the primary defence of skunks
and porcupines and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
stop an instinctive behavior.

Mark

- --
Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFA1qiMLVmEOl6/PWERAgXGAJ9qTeGpipF0irnxTShLB6hJ5sgZOwCgqnyJ
FIbZzj7A8gDDB7TpQZrwrrs=
=3jwD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

In article ,
Mark Mitchell writes:

I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.

A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that negative reinforcement
(correction) is inappropriate. Meditate on the primary defence of skunks
and porcupines and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
stop an instinctive behavior.

Porcupines and skunks are such sociable critters.
They don't set out to maliciously inflict barbs or
stinks on anyone. Au contraire. They don't require
'correction'. just because they have a defense, doesn't
mean they're gonna use it as an offense, until they have to.
What's really sad is, often they seek out human interaction
and conversation and dialog, and they end up with hostility
and fear instead. Same with domestic dogs.

Since you disagree that 'negative reinforcement, or "correction"'
is inappropriate (wow, what a compound negative), I invite
you to kick at a skunk the next time one whiffs at your shoes.
I've got one here. I've named her 'Sundown', after the Gordon
Lightfoot song. Haven't seen her for a few days, 'cuz she's
having babies. But she'll re-emerge, and when she and her brood
does, I'd hope they'd take a liking to you.


--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca