"an elderly woman ... died after being struck by a bicycle on theCedar River trail"

To: ,
From: Mark Klinke
Sender:
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 19:03:45 -0700
Subject: Rogue Trail Builders (long)

Good stuff Tom. I personally haven't spent time on trails in some
time, but I do try to have your view which is the right thing to do to
maintain the quality of our trail systems. It only takes one person
to ruin a good thing and anyone can justify their behavior in their
minds. As long as people refuse to work toward a mutually
beneficial end we'll get static and resistance which is not good for
how we are perceived and what areas we are allowed to ride, legally.

Interestingly enough I was just sent this from the Issaquah Alps
President's
column. I'm not forwarding this to initiate anything other than
there
are some salient points here for trail etiquette and similarity to
your post. If perception is everything then we can learn from this.

Some problems never seem to go away. Twenty-plus years ago our club
founders were battling a 'new' problem. Fat-tire bicycles were
tearing
up the "Issaquah Alps" trail system that club volunteers had so
lovingly
built. Harvey Manning, Bill Longwell and others had just completed a
decade long struggle to get motorcycles and jeeps out of park lands
on
Cougar, Tiger and Squak Mountains. Then suddenly the marketing of
'mountain bikes' in the 1980's resulted gangs of kids racing each
other
down our 'Alps' trails on bikes!
Bill, who was crouched on his knees
pulling roots on a Tiger Mtn. trail, was nearly run over. Harvey,
walking a new trail with his Sheltie dogs, was startled "out of his
wits," and had to leap into the blackberries while the dogs scooted
in
all directions. As he later said, "All peace and tranquility of the
woods vanished that day." He was furious at being run off of a trail
that he had built, in a park that he had saved with years of
lobbying!
Also on Cougar Mtn., a woman on horseback had her whole life changed
in
less than ten seconds. A biker group came flying down Cave Hole
trail
hill at perhaps 20mph. Terrified, her horse reared up and then fell
sideways on top of her, breaking her leg. That left her with a life-
long
limp, ended her riding career, and "took away any wish to ever be
out
on those trails again." The bike riders never even stopped.....
In
recent years, IATC members have been finding outrageous scrap-lumber
forts, ramps, jumps and high 'cat-walks' nailed into trees. Illegal,
unsafe; built without the knowledge or approval of the landowner,
these
bike 'play-parks' also show a total disregard for nature and the very
trees that they are using. Altogether, these are the events and
actions
that polarize us againt bikes and lead us to say, "No bikes in the
Issaquah Alps trail system."
This also mirrors my experience in
twenty years as park manager at Cougar Mountain. We tried for a time
to
have 'multiple-use' trails where bicycles were allowed, but it didn't
work. The bikers were constantly trespassing onto all of the other
trails, and as noted above, there were frequent conflicts with other
users. On Tiger Mountain, DNR has now spent thousands of dollars
building bridges and trails just for bikes - but again, riders are
trespassing all over the mountain. And, again in total disdain for
the
environment, some bikers engage in what they call the 'sport' of
'free-riding' - which is basically flinging themselves downhill
anywhere
through the woods where there is no trail at all. They suit up in
body
armor for this, and brag about their injuries, but have no concern at
all for for damage to plants, animals, ground-nesting birds, etc. -
It's all man against nature, and is a testosterone-stupidity that
certainly doesn't deserve to be called a sport.
Trail damage and
construction costs are also issues. Anyone who has ever seen bike
ruts
channeling water into mud holes, or bashed tree trunks and crushed
plants on trail corners, or switchback cut-throughs, understands the
problem. (Not to mention the TV commercials & magazine ads where
'mountain' bikes throw mud and thrash through streams, showing the
kids
that this is somehow OK)! The real long-term cost to the environment
and
park agencies is huge. However, for a lot of us hikers and walkers,
just seeing bike tracks is an affront. It means that a machine has
invaded the very place we came to get away from things man-made. It
says
that we now have to be constantly on alert to being run-over from
the
rear or smashed into from the front. We have to be ready to jump
sideways into the brush in a split-second. In public meetings the
bikers
always say, "Oh, we would never do that, or go that fast." They
don't
seem to understand our anger or our fears. I wonder how they might
feel
if a dirt-bike motorcycle gang invaded their new trails at Grand
Ridge
and Duthie Hill. Perhaps then they would feel the same fear of
collision
and assualt by a machine. Might they then experience the same
anger
at having their woods and trails torn up by more powerful outside
invaders ?
The tragedy of an elderly woman who died after being
struck by a bicycle on the Cedar River trail this year points out
another problem. Older folks may have hearing loss, or directional
hearing aids. Younger folks may have i-pods, ear-buds, cell phones or
perhaps so much 'texting' focus that they just don't hear a warning.
Often the warning comes too late, or people are confused about what
they
should do. When many people hear "On your left !" they instinctively
turn to the left. Pre-schoolers and doggies (on or off leash) are
always
unpredictable. Bikers need to slow down to walking speed, and then
wait
for recognition and room to pass. Just as with runners or horses,
the
request should be "Hello there, may we pass here ?".
I guess what I
am hoping for is both a change of attitude and behavior. Instead of
yelling at people to "get out of the way!" bikers need to show
courtesy
and say "thanks for sharing the trail." Instead of being speed and
muscle 'conquerors' of the woods, bikers need to slow down and chat
with
the people they meet. Hikers are there for exercise too, but they
view
the woods as a treasure chest of surprises to be appreciated. You
can't
enjoy Chocolate Lillies or Phantom Orchids at 15 miles per hour - in
fact you'll probably run over them before you see them. As Harvey
was
fond of saying, "You just don't go to a museum expecting to play
basketball!" There is a reason why bikes are not permitted in nature
parks, on interpretive trails, in wilderness areas, and on Mt.
Rainier
& Olympic National Park trails.
Now we have news articles stating
that Issaquah should become "...a mountain bike mecca", when in fact
the bikers represent only a very small percentage of the population.
(Some problems never go away). Nation-wide, and locally, walking and
hiking are by far the most popular forms of outdoor recreation; and
trails serve by far the largest number of people for the least cost.
So
we of the IATC again say, "Bikers, pay your dues. Help parks acquire
land, and then get permission to build your own trails, to standards
that will match your type of use." To the park agencies we say, "Plan
seperate trails for seperate uses, and provide the law enforcement
needed to keep them seperate." To everyone we say, " Slow down, show
some respect for the other users out there on the trail; and please
take
the time to really respect and enjoy nature and the wonderful parks
and
forests that we have here in the northwest."


Mark K.
To:
From:
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:04:23 -0700
Subject: Rogue Trail Builders (long)

On Aug 23, 1:34*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

It only takes one person
to ruin a good thing and anyone can justify their behavior in their
minds. *

I couldn't help but notice that your "fan mail" doesn't include a
single note of support or sympathy resulting from your assault on two
unarmed mountain bikers.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/fanmail

Why do you think that is?

"Shraga" wrote in message
...
On Aug 23, 1:34 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

It only takes one person
to ruin a good thing and anyone can justify their behavior in their
minds.

I couldn't help but notice that your "fan mail" doesn't include a
single note of support or sympathy resulting from your assault on two
unarmed mountain bikers.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/fanmail

Why do you think that is?

We don't really know who was assaulting who, do we. But leave it to fools
like you to rush to judgment.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Aug 23, 11:31*am, Shraga wrote:
On Aug 23, 1:34*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:



It only takes one person
to ruin a good thing and anyone can justify their behavior in their
minds. *

I couldn't help but notice that your "fan mail" doesn't include a
single note of support or sympathy resulting from your assault on two
unarmed mountain bikers.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/fanmail

Why do you think that is?

I read that more charges were added and that his friend Terri was in
the courtroom making a fool out of herself.

"Bill Weir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 23, 11:31 am, Shraga wrote:
On Aug 23, 1:34 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:



It only takes one person
to ruin a good thing and anyone can justify their behavior in their
minds.

I couldn't help but notice that your "fan mail" doesn't include a
single note of support or sympathy resulting from your assault on two
unarmed mountain bikers.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/fanmail

Why do you think that is?

I read that more charges were added and that his friend Terri was in
the courtroom making a fool out of herself.

The only one who is making a fool of himself is you.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Aug 23, 11:50*am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Shraga" wrote in message

...
On Aug 23, 1:34 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:



It only takes one person
to ruin a good thing and anyone can justify their behavior in their
minds.
I couldn't help but notice that your "fan mail" doesn't include a

single note of support or sympathy resulting from your assault on two
unarmed mountain bikers.

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/fanmail
Why do you think that is?

We don't really know who was assaulting who, do we. But leave it to fools
like you to rush to judgment.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

My use or omission of the word "alleged" in my post has nothing to do
with its point, pea-brain. It also has nothing to do with his guilt or
innocence.

It has to do with the fact that during an obvious time of need, the
only two people defending the doctor are semi-literate lunatics who
hurt his cause more than they help it.

So please, keep posting.

"Shraga" wrote in message
...
On Aug 23, 11:50 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
We don't really know who was assaulting who, do we. But leave it to fools
like you to rush to judgment.

My use or omission of the word "alleged" in my post has nothing to do
with its point, pea-brain. It also has nothing to do with his guilt or
innocence.

Oh, but it does and did. Why else would you post such nonsense?

It has to do with the fact that during an obvious time of need, the
only two people defending the doctor are semi-literate lunatics who
hurt his cause more than they help it.

These newsgroups are full of criminal types like you who think it is
acceptable to be cycling on hiking trails. I am sure that Mr. Vandeman does
not think I am hurting his cause. Criminal mountain bikers are forever the
sum of all evil in the world. When they crash and die on hiking trails, I
rejoice!

So please, keep posting.

I only respond to fools like you. So YOU keep posting. But if you can't take
the heat, then get out of the kitchen!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

To Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the
Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


You are just another man with his head up his ass who is overwhelmed with
his own self importance... accept that fact jerk-off.

"Guinness" wrote in message
...
To Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of
the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
You are just another man with his head up his ass who is overwhelmed with
his own self importance... accept that fact jerk-off.

Ed Dolan the Great is Great and Saint Edward the Great is even Greater. Now,
what else did you want to know?

I urge you to become humble and self-effacing like Ed Dolan the Great. Pride
goeth before a fall you know. For your penance, Saint Edward the Great
requires that you say 100 Our Fathers and 1000 Hail Marys. Go my son and sin
no more!

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

No **** YOU and your "OUR FATHERS" and "HAIL MARY'S." Sounds to me like
you're nothing more than another self-effacing pedophile catholic looking to
pick a fight after someone caught you with your hand in the cookie jar!

As for me, my only sin is I waste time trying to talk sense into ****ups
like you!

**** YOU AND YOU'RE SUPPOSED "ORDER OF PERPETUAL SORROWS."


"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...
"Guinness" wrote in message
...
To Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of
the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
You are just another man with his head up his ass who is overwhelmed with
his own self importance... accept that fact jerk-off.

Ed Dolan the Great is Great and Saint Edward the Great is even Greater.
Now, what else did you want to know?

I urge you to become humble and self-effacing like Ed Dolan the Great.
Pride goeth before a fall you know. For your penance, Saint Edward the
Great requires that you say 100 Our Fathers and 1000 Hail Marys. Go my son
and sin no more!

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota