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Wider tires, All-road bikes



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 956
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 12:47:37 PM UTC-8, duane wrote:
On 22/01/2019 1:12 p.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 8:17:12 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski



This is one-step removed from the tweed ride. Look at these guys (from Jan's site): https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=640&h=518

WTF is the deal with handlebar bags these days? One water bottle and a canvas handlebar bag? If you can stop for water, you can stop for whatever crap you have in the handlebar bag. The last thing I want riding on gravel is a bulky canvas handlebar bag to add swing weight to the bars. Mandatory wool jerseys and dynos. Gak. It all screams for attention.

I passed a guy riding into work today who had some uber fat Jan Heine/Grant Petersen approved retro bike with canvas bags and fat tires, steel frame -- all new. Who the hell needs 45mm tires and a bunch of canvas bags (in a wet climate no less) to ride to work? What a lug. I'm on 32mm for wet traction and sailed by. I'll switch back to 28mm tires as soon as the worst weather passes.

I ride gravel roads all the time on 25/28mm tires -- and even some single track. No special bike, because unlike James, most close-in gravel for me connects to pavement, and lugging around fat tires on hilly pavement is tiring. If I'm going to do an all-gravel or more gravel adventure, I'll take my gravel bike or my CX commuter.

It's odd to me that the Heine crowd puts down much of cycling as fashion driven and yet they are the biggest fashionistas imaginable -- re-imagining the past and dismissing as "plecebo" those things I prove every week, e.g., that heavy fat tires bikes are boat anchors. I'm sorry, I can feel the difference between a ProRace 25mm and the 32mm Zaffiro on my commuter.

Everything from the past was not better. It wasn't. Sorry. I am from the past and can say that with reasonable certainty.

-- Jay Beattie.


Going to have to agree with you there but then again, to each his/her
own as long as they don't bug me for my choices. Is it me or do those
guys look sort of grim?

BTW as for heavy tires, a guy passed me today on a fat bike.
Considering it was -22C and blowing snow I figured he was to mean for me
to mess with g. What the hell is this idea of snow and -22C? It used
to be warmer when it snowed...


It's that man-made global warming.
Ads
  #12  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 677
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 12:07:50 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:12:07 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 8:17:12 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski



This is one-step removed from the tweed ride. Look at these guys (from Jan's site): https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=640&h=518

WTF is the deal with handlebar bags these days? One water bottle and a canvas handlebar bag? If you can stop for water, you can stop for whatever crap you have in the handlebar bag. The last thing I want riding on gravel is a bulky canvas handlebar bag to add swing weight to the bars. Mandatory wool jerseys and dynos. Gak. It all screams for attention.

I passed a guy riding into work today who had some uber fat Jan Heine/Grant Petersen approved retro bike with canvas bags and fat tires, steel frame -- all new. Who the hell needs 45mm tires and a bunch of canvas bags (in a wet climate no less) to ride to work? What a lug. I'm on 32mm for wet traction and sailed by. I'll switch back to 28mm tires as soon as the worst weather passes.

I ride gravel roads all the time on 25/28mm tires -- and even some single track. No special bike, because unlike James, most close-in gravel for me connects to pavement, and lugging around fat tires on hilly pavement is tiring. If I'm going to do an all-gravel or more gravel adventure, I'll take my gravel bike or my CX commuter.

It's odd to me that the Heine crowd puts down much of cycling as fashion driven and yet they are the biggest fashionistas imaginable -- re-imagining the past and dismissing as "plecebo" those things I prove every week, e.g., that heavy fat tires bikes are boat anchors. I'm sorry, I can feel the difference between a ProRace 25mm and the 32mm Zaffiro on my commuter.

Everything from the past was not better. It wasn't. Sorry. I am from the past and can say that with reasonable certainty.

-- Jay Beattie.


I convert MTBs to drop bars and 1.5 or 1.75 tires for asphalt/gravel/dirt road riding. What's nice is that the tires don't cost all that much certainly not 67.? pounds as the tires in the article are. Plus the 26 x 1.5 or 26 x 1.75 tires are fairly easy to come by. With an adjustable stem the bike can be adjusted for a low fast ride on pavement or a very upright position on grave or scenic routes if one wants too.

Cheers


I'm beginning to see bikes over here with what appear to be 4 inch, or
maybe larger, tires. They look much like a hard tail MTB but with much
wider forks.

A couple of months ago I passed an immensely fat chap riding one and I
remember I thought at the time that perhaps the wider tires would
support more weight :-)


Cheers,
John B.


  #13  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:14:45 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:12:07 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

This is one-step removed from the tweed ride. Look at these guys (from Jan's site): https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=640&h=518

WTF is the deal with handlebar bags these days? One water bottle and a canvas handlebar bag? If you can stop for water, you can stop for whatever crap you have in the handlebar bag. The last thing I want riding on gravel is a bulky canvas handlebar bag to add swing weight to the bars. Mandatory wool jerseys and dynos. Gak. It all screams for attention.


:-) Yet if they were in multi-colored lycra jerseys with team and
product logos, they wouldn't be screaming for attention? Hah.

I'm not going to say that those guys didn't make their choices based
on the fashion in their peer group. That happens with some of the
people in any peer group. But it's not a given. FWIW, I started
using handlebar bags in about 1975 and have used them ever since.
I don't stop to drink from my water bottle, and I don't usually stop
to take off my jacket, put on my hat, look at a map, grab a camera,
grab a granola bar, etc. All that stuff is in my handlebar bag
and easily accessible.

I passed a guy riding into work today who had some uber fat Jan Heine/Grant Petersen approved retro bike with canvas bags and fat tires, steel frame -- all new. Who the hell needs 45mm tires and a bunch of canvas bags (in a wet climate no less) to ride to work? What a lug. I'm on 32mm for wet traction and sailed by. I'll switch back to 28mm tires as soon as the worst weather passes.


Yes, I ride 28s or 32s. But if he likes 45, that's fine with me.
I have a couple friends who ride tires fatter than 35 (I don't know
the exact sizes). They seem to work fine for them.

It's odd to me that the Heine crowd puts down much of cycling as fashion driven and yet they are the biggest fashionistas imaginable -- re-imagining the past and dismissing as "plecebo" those things I prove every week, e.g., that heavy fat tires bikes are boat anchors. I'm sorry, I can feel the difference between a ProRace 25mm and the 32mm Zaffiro on my commuter.


FWIW, Heine likes light weight. He just seems to think that going to
ultra-narrow tires is counterproductive, even though they may be
lighter. That makes sense to me. We could debate the optimum tire
size, but we'd have to first spend time describing the road surface.
Because I'm sure narrow tires are not as fast on rougher surfaces.

Everything from the past was not better. It wasn't. Sorry. I am from the past and can say that with reasonable certainty.


19mm tires are now from the past! :-)

- Frank Krygowski


I just did 27 miles Saturday and 15 miles was through heavy, loose gravel. My tires are 25 mm Michelin's with no tread. Nobody even got close to me. Though I was really worn out.

I just got back from my first normal ride of the season. 45 miles. All on pavement. Millions of stop lights and an average speed of 12.8 which is faster than hell for that distance and that number of lights. I'm not nearly as tired as I was from the gravel. Same bike.
  #14  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:19:31 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 3:08:51 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 11:17:12 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski


Good grief! They're wearing H****ts too! LOL


Yes, like so many people, Jan Heine is a bit irrational about
helmets. Judging by photos in the magazine, he used to wear them
only when riding in the U.S., but not in Japan or Europe. More
recent photos show he's taken up wearing helmets in Japan, but still
not when he's riding in Europe. And in his blog posts, he's
indicated a fair amount of helmet skepticism. But one sits on his
head in almost all photos.

- Frank Krygowski


A helmet isn't going to save your life but is sure as hell can save your scalp.
  #15  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 956
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:54:35 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:14:45 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:12:07 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

This is one-step removed from the tweed ride. Look at these guys (from Jan's site): https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=640&h=518

WTF is the deal with handlebar bags these days? One water bottle and a canvas handlebar bag? If you can stop for water, you can stop for whatever crap you have in the handlebar bag. The last thing I want riding on gravel is a bulky canvas handlebar bag to add swing weight to the bars. Mandatory wool jerseys and dynos. Gak. It all screams for attention.


:-) Yet if they were in multi-colored lycra jerseys with team and
product logos, they wouldn't be screaming for attention? Hah.


Not nearly as self-consciously. It's like they're making a point.

I'm not going to say that those guys didn't make their choices based
on the fashion in their peer group. That happens with some of the
people in any peer group. But it's not a given. FWIW, I started
using handlebar bags in about 1975 and have used them ever since.
I don't stop to drink from my water bottle, and I don't usually stop
to take off my jacket, put on my hat, look at a map, grab a camera,
grab a granola bar, etc. All that stuff is in my handlebar bag
and easily accessible.


All that stuff is in my jersey pocket. I will ride 100 miles with my reduced wallet, a couple Cliff bars, two GUs, my iPhone and that's it. If I need more, I stop. I can even put my rain jacket or vest in a jersey pocket. And if I wanted a bag, I would get a bigger seat pack. Handlebar bags add mass to steering, they rattle, etc., etc. Maybe I'd use one on a tour (even though I typically used low riders), but for a one-bottle ride? And if they were so good, why did they disappear only to become epidemic in the last year or so. This is like some weird fashion wave -- in leather and cotton. Cotton? Really? (yes, I know it "swells" and becomes magically waterproof and thus all the cotton rain jackets in the world).

I passed a guy riding into work today who had some uber fat Jan Heine/Grant Petersen approved retro bike with canvas bags and fat tires, steel frame -- all new. Who the hell needs 45mm tires and a bunch of canvas bags (in a wet climate no less) to ride to work? What a lug. I'm on 32mm for wet traction and sailed by. I'll switch back to 28mm tires as soon as the worst weather passes.


Yes, I ride 28s or 32s. But if he likes 45, that's fine with me.
I have a couple friends who ride tires fatter than 35 (I don't know
the exact sizes). They seem to work fine for them.

It's odd to me that the Heine crowd puts down much of cycling as fashion driven and yet they are the biggest fashionistas imaginable -- re-imagining the past and dismissing as "plecebo" those things I prove every week, e.g., that heavy fat tires bikes are boat anchors. I'm sorry, I can feel the difference between a ProRace 25mm and the 32mm Zaffiro on my commuter.


FWIW, Heine likes light weight. He just seems to think that going to
ultra-narrow tires is counterproductive, even though they may be
lighter. That makes sense to me. We could debate the optimum tire
size, but we'd have to first spend time describing the road surface.
Because I'm sure narrow tires are not as fast on rougher surfaces.

Everything from the past was not better. It wasn't. Sorry. I am from the past and can say that with reasonable certainty.


19mm tires are now from the past! :-)


I don't care what tires a person uses either, but when you claim that fat tires roll better and are faster than lighter, narrower tires (with their "placebo" effect (his words)), you're riding on thin ice. If that were true, the entire pro peleton would by riding 45mm tires. I think Heine found a niche and is working it as hard as he can. Next thing will be the superiority of toe clips and straps and nail-on cleats with free-range cow leather soles.

I rode and raced on 19mm SuperComp HDs, and they were fine. I like more of a footprint these days. BTW, the 28mm 4Seasons on my Synapse are really grippy. I was very impressed this weekend, riding them in the rain -- probably better than the 32s on my commuter. Like I said, I think its all about compound.

-- Jay Beattie.


Masking tires wider only works for a little wider tires. As the tires get wider the contact patch gets shallower. This means that the contact patch stays on the ground for a shorter period of time and hence doesn't sink into the pavement as much. This works on ridings of normal size up to about a 27 mm width max. After that the contact patch starts adding contact surface and slows down.

More or less the same thing with softer tires. If you have a perfectly smooth surface a narrow tire with high pressure is fastest. But as the pavement gets rougher an rougher the harder tires waste a lot of energy throwing the bike up into the air. As you reduce pressure the tires roll over obstacles instead of being thrown about by them. This too has limits. If you make the tire too soft you're increasing surface area and slowing the bike up with rolling resistance.

When I went from 23 mm to 28's on the bad surfaces around here I thought that I had just supercharged the bike.
  #16  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
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Posts: 146
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On 1/22/2019 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:19:31 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 3:08:51 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 11:17:12 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski

Good grief! They're wearing H****ts too! LOL


Yes, like so many people, Jan Heine is a bit irrational about
helmets. Judging by photos in the magazine, he used to wear them
only when riding in the U.S., but not in Japan or Europe. More
recent photos show he's taken up wearing helmets in Japan, but still
not when he's riding in Europe. And in his blog posts, he's
indicated a fair amount of helmet skepticism. But one sits on his
head in almost all photos.

- Frank Krygowski


A helmet isn't going to save your life but is sure as hell can save your scalp.

Well that's exactly it, you see: as you get older, you got less and less
scalp, so it becomes more precious.
  #17  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,668
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 3:11:42 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 10:12:07 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 8:17:12 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes.."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski



This is one-step removed from the tweed ride. Look at these guys (from Jan's site): https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=640&h=518

WTF is the deal with handlebar bags these days? One water bottle and a canvas handlebar bag? If you can stop for water, you can stop for whatever crap you have in the handlebar bag. The last thing I want riding on gravel is a bulky canvas handlebar bag to add swing weight to the bars. Mandatory wool jerseys and dynos. Gak. It all screams for attention.

I passed a guy riding into work today who had some uber fat Jan Heine/Grant Petersen approved retro bike with canvas bags and fat tires, steel frame -- all new. Who the hell needs 45mm tires and a bunch of canvas bags (in a wet climate no less) to ride to work? What a lug. I'm on 32mm for wet traction and sailed by. I'll switch back to 28mm tires as soon as the worst weather passes.

I ride gravel roads all the time on 25/28mm tires -- and even some single track. No special bike, because unlike James, most close-in gravel for me connects to pavement, and lugging around fat tires on hilly pavement is tiring. If I'm going to do an all-gravel or more gravel adventure, I'll take my gravel bike or my CX commuter.

It's odd to me that the Heine crowd puts down much of cycling as fashion driven and yet they are the biggest fashionistas imaginable -- re-imagining the past and dismissing as "plecebo" those things I prove every week, e.g., that heavy fat tires bikes are boat anchors. I'm sorry, I can feel the difference between a ProRace 25mm and the 32mm Zaffiro on my commuter.

Everything from the past was not better. It wasn't. Sorry. I am from the past and can say that with reasonable certainty.

-- Jay Beattie.


What, you mean you don't like32 mm tires under fenders that rattle like everything is about to break? Who wouldn't miss that?


Getting fenders not to rattle is an art form. You have to take extra measures with modern fenders that have those brake bridge mounts that do not hold the fender rigidly.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #18  
Old January 23rd 19, 12:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
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Posts: 146
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On 1/22/2019 10:17 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski

Wider tires is something that could help a lot of 'normal' riders, but
running fat(ter) tires also requires running fatter rims for them to
work well--and most people still don't bother with that part.

I've seen online a lot where someone says that they have a bike with
30mm tires and ask if they can put ~45's or whatever on it... -and
everyone else says "yea sure, if the tires will fit in the
frame/fenders". And it's true that it works, but it works lousy. I'm
usually the only one pointing out that you don't get the full benefit of
fatter tires unless you move to wider rims as well.

It goes something like this:
1. The only reason to run fatter tires is to run them at lower
pressures, to absorb road bumps better.
2. But if you get wide tires and mount them on narrow rims, then you
have to keep them inflated to fairly-high pressures to keep them from
squirming and folding over in turns.
3. So if you mount a fat tire on a skinny rim, all you end up with is a
much heavier, hard-riding tire. The fatter tire's greater cushioning
ability is lost with the raised inflation pressure that becomes necessary.

Both of my bikes use medium-width tires--one is usually 1.5" wide and
the other is either 1.4 or 1.75. The last major modification I did to
both of them was change them from the ~25mm rims that they came with, to
~34mm width "downhill" rims.

-----

As for Mr Heine: I consider him to still be green, as he hasn't
graduated to recumbents yet.
  #19  
Old January 23rd 19, 01:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 289
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:12:05 -0800, jbeattie wrote:

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 8:17:12 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Here's Jan Heine's latest on wide tire road bikes, or "All-Road Bikes."

https://janheine.wordpress.com/

I guess that link takes you to the most recent edition of his blog, so
when this post gets old you'll probably have to scan downwards.

- Frank Krygowski



This is one-step removed from the tweed ride. Look at these guys (from
Jan's site):
https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...paceline1.jpg?

w=640&h=518

WTF is the deal with handlebar bags these days? One water bottle and a
canvas handlebar bag?


well over here, that must be a jaunt to the shops.

I passed a guy riding into work today who had some uber fat Jan
Heine/Grant Petersen approved retro bike with canvas bags and fat tires,
steel frame -- all new. Who the hell needs 45mm tires and a bunch of
canvas bags (in a wet climate no less) to ride to work?


Shopping on the way home. My bicycle is utlitarian.



I ride gravel roads all the time on 25/28mm tires -- and even some
single track. No special bike,


We all did back then, before marketing started driving the local bike
shop. Lol, wanky racers in their lycra for a start. VBG

Everything from the past was not better. It wasn't. Sorry. I am from the
past and can say that with reasonable certainty.


Sturney Archer 3 speed hubs are still great, reliable and uncomplicated.
  #20  
Old January 23rd 19, 04:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,239
Default Wider tires, All-road bikes

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 13:19:29 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And in his blog posts, he's
indicated a fair amount of helmet skepticism. But one sits on his
head in almost all photos.


The helmets in the photos protect him from idiots.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

 




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