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Disk brakes might be useful



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 5th 19, 04:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,120
Default Disk brakes might be useful

I went for a ride last Saturday -- it was neither long, nor fast, nor
scenic, a little trip to a neighboring town. On the way back it was
about 25F (-4C), below freezing, but hardly frostbite weather.

The sun was shining, the wind was blowing, the crows were singing
merrily to keep the seagulls in their place. The streets were mostly
clear, at least in the travel lanes, but were damp with melted brine.
We haven't had much snow this year, and local governments are dealing as
best they can with the dire prospect of a road salt budget surplus.

The brine tends to get tracked into the mean right tire track, forming a
dark stripe, which is where I rode a great deal of the time. To the
right were piles of ice and snow, patches of crusty salt, dog**** popsicles
and cigarette butts. To the left it was already a bit hard for drivers
to pass.

Two blocks from home, having not touched the brakes in quite a while, I
meant to slow for a left turn, and applied the brakes. Just perceptible
slowing obtained, even when squeezing hard. This was a little
disappointing, not what most would expect from brakes at all. Unlike
rain, the problem didn't go away as water was wiped from the rims -- it
stayed crappy until I almost missed my turn in the neighbor's front
yard.

When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white frosty
stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more resolutely. Not
normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off
the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann Vainqueur
centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I do find them more
than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those fashionable disk
brakes.

--


Ads
  #2  
Old February 5th 19, 05:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,647
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:
I went for a ride last Saturday -- it was neither long, nor fast, nor
scenic, a little trip to a neighboring town. On the way back it was
about 25F (-4C), below freezing, but hardly frostbite weather.

The sun was shining, the wind was blowing, the crows were singing
merrily to keep the seagulls in their place. The streets were mostly
clear, at least in the travel lanes, but were damp with melted brine.
We haven't had much snow this year, and local governments are dealing as
best they can with the dire prospect of a road salt budget surplus.

The brine tends to get tracked into the mean right tire track, forming a
dark stripe, which is where I rode a great deal of the time. To the
right were piles of ice and snow, patches of crusty salt, dog**** popsicles
and cigarette butts. To the left it was already a bit hard for drivers
to pass.

Two blocks from home, having not touched the brakes in quite a while, I
meant to slow for a left turn, and applied the brakes. Just perceptible
slowing obtained, even when squeezing hard. This was a little
disappointing, not what most would expect from brakes at all. Unlike
rain, the problem didn't go away as water was wiped from the rims -- it
stayed crappy until I almost missed my turn in the neighbor's front
yard.


I remember many snow rides from Europe. Sometimes I had to let the pads
gently rub on the rims well before an intersection to make sure there'd
be some stopping power. Rim brakes are about as "modern" as those wood
blocks against the wheels of a chuckwagon.

Also, winter rides tend to eat rims. So do rain rides. Replacing a brake
rotor takes five minutes (with coffee) and about $20-$25, changing out a
rim is a different story.


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white frosty
stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more resolutely. Not
normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off
the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann Vainqueur
centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I do find them more
than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those fashionable disk
brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #3  
Old February 5th 19, 05:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,104
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

I remember many snow rides from Europe. Sometimes I had to let the pads
gently rub on the rims well before an intersection to make sure there'd
be some stopping power. Rim brakes are about as "modern" as those wood
blocks against the wheels of a chuckwagon.

Also, winter rides tend to eat rims. So do rain rides. Replacing a brake
rotor takes five minutes (with coffee) and about $20-$25, changing out a
rim is a different story.


So many problems! Problems that cyclists have dealt with just fine
for 100 years, but can suddenly be solved only with newly fashionable
equipment!

Yes, it's a good idea to occasionally test your brakes in bad
conditions. It's not difficult. I've been doing that since the 1970s.

(Funny that a southern California guy is giving warnings about
winter riding!)

- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old February 5th 19, 06:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,932
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:
I went for a ride last Saturday -- it was neither long, nor fast, nor
scenic, a little trip to a neighboring town. On the way back it was
about 25F (-4C), below freezing, but hardly frostbite weather.

The sun was shining, the wind was blowing, the crows were singing
merrily to keep the seagulls in their place. The streets were mostly
clear, at least in the travel lanes, but were damp with melted brine.
We haven't had much snow this year, and local governments are dealing as
best they can with the dire prospect of a road salt budget surplus.

The brine tends to get tracked into the mean right tire track, forming a
dark stripe, which is where I rode a great deal of the time. To the
right were piles of ice and snow, patches of crusty salt, dog**** popsicles
and cigarette butts. To the left it was already a bit hard for drivers
to pass.

Two blocks from home, having not touched the brakes in quite a while, I
meant to slow for a left turn, and applied the brakes. Just perceptible
slowing obtained, even when squeezing hard. This was a little
disappointing, not what most would expect from brakes at all. Unlike
rain, the problem didn't go away as water was wiped from the rims -- it
stayed crappy until I almost missed my turn in the neighbor's front
yard.


I remember many snow rides from Europe. Sometimes I had to let the pads
gently rub on the rims well before an intersection to make sure there'd
be some stopping power. Rim brakes are about as "modern" as those wood
blocks against the wheels of a chuckwagon.

Also, winter rides tend to eat rims. So do rain rides. Replacing a brake
rotor takes five minutes (with coffee) and about $20-$25, changing out a
rim is a different story.


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white frosty
stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more resolutely. Not
normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off
the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann Vainqueur
centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I do find them more
than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those fashionable disk
brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims wearing out.

Cheers
  #5  
Old February 5th 19, 07:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,647
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:


[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white
frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more
resolutely. Not normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a
few minutes cleaning off the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann
Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I
do find them more than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components if
there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the years?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #6  
Old February 5th 19, 07:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,644
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 10:06:39 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:


[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white
frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more
resolutely. Not normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a
few minutes cleaning off the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann
Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I
do find them more than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first 1000mi of
foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on soggy winter trail
rides there was this goose bump eliciting sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components if
there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the years?


Regardless of how one feels about discs, it is true that rim brakes will wear out rims when use in wet and grimy conditions. Like I've said before, I work with a clydesdale who commutes 24 miles a day on mostly flat terrain, and he was going through rims every two years. My experience with rim brakes on my commuter was better, but I've been on discs so long that I can't recall how fast I was going through rims.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #7  
Old February 5th 19, 07:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,234
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On 2/5/19 7:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 10:06:39 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:


[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in
white frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck
much more resolutely. Not normally much for washing
bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off the frost and
salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but
Weinmann Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop
cartridge pads. I do find them more than adequate
ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look
back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't
have problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles.
That is even true for my ancient long out of production Shimano
Adamas AX brakes and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the
Dura Ace AX bicycle is kept for nicer weather but I have got
caught out in the rain with it and never had a problem. Not have
i ever worn out a rim because of brake wear. I ride thousands of
miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with
rims wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first
1000mi of foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on
soggy winter trail rides there was this goose bump eliciting
sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components
if there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the
years?


Regardless of how one feels about discs, it is true that rim brakes
will wear out rims when use in wet and grimy conditions. Like I've
said before, I work with a clydesdale who commutes 24 miles a day on
mostly flat terrain, and he was going through rims every two years.
My experience with rim brakes on my commuter was better, but I've
been on discs so long that I can't recall how fast I was going
through rims.


Similar here. Actually I've had exactly the same happen on rim brakes
as described by the OP, but it is rare, you do need just the right
combination of conditions. Freezing rain will do it as well :-(

For me, Shimano mineral oil disc brakes have been maintenance free for
years now. Was looking at the front disc over the weekend and it might
be due for replacement after some 8,000 miles. Given it's a centerlock,
that's going to be a 2 minute job!

  #8  
Old February 5th 19, 08:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,120
Default Disk brakes might be useful

Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:
I went for a ride last Saturday -- it was neither long, nor fast, nor
scenic, a little trip to a neighboring town. On the way back it was
about 25F (-4C), below freezing, but hardly frostbite weather.

The sun was shining, the wind was blowing, the crows were singing
merrily to keep the seagulls in their place. The streets were mostly
clear, at least in the travel lanes, but were damp with melted brine.
We haven't had much snow this year, and local governments are dealing as
best they can with the dire prospect of a road salt budget surplus.

The brine tends to get tracked into the mean right tire track, forming a
dark stripe, which is where I rode a great deal of the time. To the
right were piles of ice and snow, patches of crusty salt, dog**** popsicles
and cigarette butts. To the left it was already a bit hard for drivers
to pass.

Two blocks from home, having not touched the brakes in quite a while, I
meant to slow for a left turn, and applied the brakes. Just perceptible
slowing obtained, even when squeezing hard. This was a little
disappointing, not what most would expect from brakes at all. Unlike
rain, the problem didn't go away as water was wiped from the rims -- it
stayed crappy until I almost missed my turn in the neighbor's front
yard.


I remember many snow rides from Europe. Sometimes I had to let the pads
gently rub on the rims well before an intersection to make sure there'd
be some stopping power. Rim brakes are about as "modern" as those wood
blocks against the wheels of a chuckwagon.

Also, winter rides tend to eat rims. So do rain rides. Replacing a brake
rotor takes five minutes (with coffee) and about $20-$25, changing out a
rim is a different story.


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white frosty
stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more resolutely. Not
normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off
the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann Vainqueur
centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I do find them more
than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those fashionable disk
brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.


What causes you to eventually discard rims? Do they just last forever?
Truly we must live in different worlds.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.


Not sure what you mean by "drastic". Rims are a wear item.

--
  #9  
Old February 5th 19, 08:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 874
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:09:28 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:
I went for a ride last Saturday -- it was neither long, nor fast, nor
scenic, a little trip to a neighboring town. On the way back it was
about 25F (-4C), below freezing, but hardly frostbite weather.

The sun was shining, the wind was blowing, the crows were singing
merrily to keep the seagulls in their place. The streets were mostly
clear, at least in the travel lanes, but were damp with melted brine..
We haven't had much snow this year, and local governments are dealing as
best they can with the dire prospect of a road salt budget surplus.

The brine tends to get tracked into the mean right tire track, forming a
dark stripe, which is where I rode a great deal of the time. To the
right were piles of ice and snow, patches of crusty salt, dog**** popsicles
and cigarette butts. To the left it was already a bit hard for drivers
to pass.

Two blocks from home, having not touched the brakes in quite a while, I
meant to slow for a left turn, and applied the brakes. Just perceptible
slowing obtained, even when squeezing hard. This was a little
disappointing, not what most would expect from brakes at all. Unlike
rain, the problem didn't go away as water was wiped from the rims -- it
stayed crappy until I almost missed my turn in the neighbor's front
yard.


I remember many snow rides from Europe. Sometimes I had to let the pads
gently rub on the rims well before an intersection to make sure there'd
be some stopping power. Rim brakes are about as "modern" as those wood
blocks against the wheels of a chuckwagon.

Also, winter rides tend to eat rims. So do rain rides. Replacing a brake
rotor takes five minutes (with coffee) and about $20-$25, changing out a
rim is a different story.


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in white frosty
stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck much more resolutely. Not
normally much for washing bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off
the frost and salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but Weinmann Vainqueur
centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop cartridge pads. I do find them more
than adequate ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those fashionable disk
brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't have
problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles. That is even
true for my ancient long out of production Shimano Adamas AX brakes
and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the Dura Ace AX bicycle is
kept for nicer weather but I have got caught out in the rain with it
and never had a problem. Not have i ever worn out a rim because of
brake wear. I ride thousands of miles every year too.


What causes you to eventually discard rims? Do they just last forever?
Truly we must live in different worlds.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with rims
wearing out.


Not sure what you mean by "drastic". Rims are a wear item.

--


This morning the normal Tuesday ride was scheduled until I emailed them that the temperature was 2 degrees above freezing in the end town and that in between there was probably ice on the shady downhills. Suddenly they changed their minds. Didn't matter to me since I had to go to the Dentist and I'm still too numb to drink a cup of coffee.
  #10  
Old February 5th 19, 08:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,647
Default Disk brakes might be useful

On 2019-02-05 10:43, Tosspot wrote:
On 2/5/19 7:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 10:06:39 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 09:51, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:24:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-02-05 07:21, Radey Shouman wrote:

[...]


When I got home I looked at the rims. They were coated in
white frosty stuff that looked a lot like snow, but stuck
much more resolutely. Not normally much for washing
bicycles, I spent a few minutes cleaning off the frost and
salt.

To be clear, the brakes are not modern equipment, but
Weinmann Vainqueur centerpulls, albeit with Kool Stop
cartridge pads. I do find them more than adequate
ordinarily.

If I ever buy a new bicycle, I believe I'll favor those
fashionable disk brakes.


Try them out on a friend bike or a rental. You'll never look
back.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

CRIKEY! What am I doing WRONG? I ride all year round and I don't
have problems with my rim brakes stopping any of my bicycles.
That is even true for my ancient long out of production Shimano
Adamas AX brakes and my Shimano Dura Ace AX brakes. Grant the
Dura Ace AX bicycle is kept for nicer weather but I have got
caught out in the rain with it and never had a problem. Not have
i ever worn out a rim because of brake wear. I ride thousands of
miles every year too.

I just don't get how some people have such drastic problems with
rims wearing out.


Well, the rims on my 1st MTB were nearly shot after the first
1000mi of foul weather riding. Most of the time I reached on on
soggy winter trail rides there was this goose bump eliciting
sandpaper noise.

Needless to say, the next MTB had disc brakes and none of this is
happening now. Why should people put up with inferior components
if there are better ones that even reduce cost per mile over the
years?


Regardless of how one feels about discs, it is true that rim brakes
will wear out rims when use in wet and grimy conditions. Like I've
said before, I work with a clydesdale who commutes 24 miles a day on
mostly flat terrain, and he was going through rims every two years.
My experience with rim brakes on my commuter was better, but I've
been on discs so long that I can't recall how fast I was going
through rims.


Similar here. Actually I've had exactly the same happen on rim brakes
as described by the OP, but it is rare, you do need just the right
combination of conditions. Freezing rain will do it as well :-(

For me, Shimano mineral oil disc brakes have been maintenance free for
years now.



Does this mean no bleeding either? I have to "burp" mine about once a
year or about every 2000mi but it's a mountain bike where I am in the
brakes all the time. Mine use DOT-4 fluid so it's a bit of a messy job.
Open reservoir, squeeze lever over and over again until no more bubbles
show and the pressure point becomes hard, top off, close, wipe clean.
That takes only a few minutes but DOT-4 can be nasty on clothes. So
maybe my next set of brakes should be Shimano.


... Was looking at the front disc over the weekend and it might
be due for replacement after some 8,000 miles. Given it's a centerlock,
that's going to be a 2 minute job!


With the six screws it's five minutes because there is usually a set of
fresh ones with Loctite already applied. Torqueing as usual via the
digital suitcase scale.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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