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#21
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"Cyclists need good manners"
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote: YOu know for sure she was not on a zebra crossing? Or not legally crossing more than 20m (or 50m depending on jurisdiction) from a crossing place? Why the presumption of guilt? I make no such presumptions as I was not present. I don't even know the locale as I live in Melbourne. But IF I did want to cros a (perhaps) busy road near a popular beach, and IF I was walking my elderly dog (which I do not have) I would think it wise to take the slow moving dog to cross at a signalled crossing, for its own sake. I also would not be too surprised if traffic, be it cyclists or motorists, yelled at me if I stepped out in front of traffic and slowly crossed the road. Yeah, maybe I am presuming too much!! -- Cheers Peter ~~~ ~ _@ ~~ ~ _- \, ~~ (*)/ (*) |
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#22
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"Cyclists need good manners"
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote: I dunno. You assume the woman was not crossing legitimately, and that the "yelled at us to hurry up" was a call of warning, not an angry yell. Try as I might I can't seem to get much anger into a yell of "hurry up!" Now if it was "hurry up, you m----- f-----" that would count as an angry call. But Ms East didn't complain of this. I have no idea if it was a legitimate crossing, nor if the rider was riding at a suitable pace for the conditions, nor if the rider was being aggro. I just note that to assume that the writer of the letter needed anger management but the cyclist didn't is making many assumptions not supported by the evidence. And I think I clarified that I make no such assumptions, and in fact don't regard either as in need of anger management. Life's too short for this frustration over such a tiny mistake. -- Cheers Peter ~~~ ~ _@ ~~ ~ _- \, ~~ (*)/ (*) |
#23
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"Cyclists need good manners"
Peter Signorini wrote:
Now if it was "hurry up, you m----- f-----" that would count as an angry call. I find nothing offensive about minced fabrics? Russ. |
#24
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"Cyclists need good manners"
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:55:38 +1100
cfsmtb wrote: Duracell Bunny Wrote: Whatever makes you think I'm angry about it? Ah, come on, don't you know that simply expressing an opinion is commonly misconstrued, by those with less advanced social skills, as being extremely biased or even gives the illusion of being angry? Well yes. As was evinced by DB's reaction to the original letter. Zebee - listening to the conversation of kitchen equipment. |
#25
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"Cyclists need good manners"
In aus.bicycle on Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:44:23 +1100
Peter Signorini wrote: "Zebee Johnstone" wrote: YOu know for sure she was not on a zebra crossing? Or not legally crossing more than 20m (or 50m depending on jurisdiction) from a crossing place? Why the presumption of guilt? I make no such presumptions as I was not present. I don't even know the locale as I live in Melbourne. Well you are... because yo uasked Theo the same sort of questions. I don't know either. But I didn't base a comment on the idea that *wasn't* it. But IF I did want to cros a (perhaps) busy road near a popular beach, and IF I was walking my elderly dog (which I do not have) I would think it wise to take the slow moving dog to cross at a signalled crossing, for its own sake. Maybe there wasn't one. Maybe it was a Zebra crossing. Maybe the crossing was in a slow for peds area. I don't know. Neither do you. The difference is that I didn't assume either way. I also would not be too surprised if traffic, be it cyclists or motorists, yelled at me if I stepped out in front of traffic and slowly crossed the road. IT isn't clear what happened. For example, where was the cyclist, how fast, why "hurry up" when getting past a ped is easy? I don't know what happned, so I'm not willing to paint either as a villain given the evidence presented. Zebee |
#26
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"Cyclists need good manners"
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:00:08 +1100
Peter Signorini wrote: "Zebee Johnstone" wrote: I dunno. You assume the woman was not crossing legitimately, and that the "yelled at us to hurry up" was a call of warning, not an angry yell. Try as I might I can't seem to get much anger into a yell of "hurry up!" Now if it was "hurry up, you m----- f-----" that would count as an angry call. But Ms East didn't complain of this. Whereas I can. TOne of voice, location, all. There's no *need* to call that is the point. The only reason is if you are annoyed. There is a gap between annoyed and angry, but I can as easily hear that as I can hear it being polite in tone. I don't think that it is likely to be polite, because such words seldom are. Exasperated rather than angry or polite is most likely but that's easily heard as anger. (About as easily as the original letter can be read as angry rather than exasperated and at least one person has so read it.) I just note that to assume that the writer of the letter needed anger management but the cyclist didn't is making many assumptions not supported by the evidence. And I think I clarified that I make no such assumptions, and in fact don't regard either as in need of anger management. TO me it looks very much like you have, and you have said so in the other post. If you say that you make no assumption about her being legit or not, then I'll believe you. Life's too short for this frustration over such a tiny mistake. I'm just interested in the way that subcultures work. It happens on aus.moto too, but to a lesser extent. The people there are a lot more inclined to suspect that a rider is in the wrong than people here are. Zebee |
#27
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"Cyclists need good manners"
Donga Wrote: DB, it gives me great pleasure to confer on you honorary membership of the BikeQld list GOMOB (Grumpy Old Men on Bikes). Donga Please accept my resignation. I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member. (with apologies to the great Groucho) DB -- Duracell Bunny |
#28
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"Cyclists need good manners"
Duracell Bunny wrote:
Theo Bekkers Wrote: Are you saying she was jaywalking? What makes you assume that? Thank you for answering my earlier question - clearly you did NOT read my letter to the paper. I did actually You said "She does not say whether or not she was crossing the road on a pedestrian crossing, nor whether she checked that the road was clear before she slowly meandered across the road with her lame dog." For all you and I know, she could have been on a crosswalk, at a set of traffic lights, at an intersection. There are many possible situations in which she would have been in a position where the onus was on the cyclist to give way. Even if she wasn't, it's bad manners to yell "Hurry up" at someone crossing the road, even if you have right of way, because they may be delaying your very important journey by two or three seconds. Then you said "so yes we DO pay for roads." I inferred from that that the pedestrian, who may also own a car, pay taxes, etc., somehow has less right to the roadway, and should ensure that they do not delay any wheeled vehicle by a few seconds. Then you said "Acting aggressively is never the answer to problems." My take is that the initial agression was shown by the cyclist. Pay attention, there's a good chap. **Plonk** Oops, there's that anger management again. Theo |
#29
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"Cyclists need good manners"
Peter Signorini wrote:
"Theo Bekkers" wrote: Are you saying she was jaywalking? What makes you assume that? So Theo, you can confirm that she was crossing legally, and more to the point, with her elderly dog was crossing at a pedestrian crossing with the green man? No I can't. Can you confirm that she wasn't? Pedestrians can legally cross the road anywhere they want, except within 20 metres of a crosswalk or intersection. Theo |
#30
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"Cyclists need good manners"
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
Peter Signorini wrote: So Theo, you can confirm that she was crossing legally, and more to the point, with her elderly dog was crossing at a pedestrian crossing with the green man? YOu know for sure she was not on a zebra crossing? Or not legally crossing more than 20m (or 50m depending on jurisdiction) from a crossing place? Why the presumption of guilt? Apparently the cyclist is always in the right. If the vehicle had been a taxi, he would have been an inconsiderate ******* requiring urgent anger management treatment. Theo |
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