Busch & Muller wiring diagrams

On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 07:34:06 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/2/2019 11:02 PM, pH wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 4:41:52 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 7:32:14 PM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Assembly instructions:
http://en.bumm.de/service/download/a...tructions.html
These are everything they appear ever to have published, and they're just external wiring connections, basically instructions not to cross over the wires.


That's the sort of document I hoped to find, but the level of detail
and my (non-)grasp of German conspire to defeat comprehension. Oh, wait!

In the figure at

http://en.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_upl...gen/171y-d.pdf

one sees items 1 and 2, with lightning and ground symbols. They
seem to correspond to micro-spade connectors that go to the D-
Toplicht-plus taillight. There's a seemingly matching pair of
micro-spade connectors on the right side of the fixture. That
right-hand pair is unused and might be what I'm looking for.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

It's a bit more complicated than that, Bob. BUMM makes basically two kinds of headlamps, all under the assumption that there is 3W of power available, that is 6V at 15kph, about 10mph, at 500mA. So BUMM makes
--- headlamps intended to consume all of that 3W, to be used with battery taillights,
and
-- headlamps intended to consume 2.4W, to pass through 0.6W for the consumption of the rear lamp.

So, if a lamp from BUMM has a second set of connectors, they're for the rear lamp, and the front lamp will be a bit weaker than the type which dissipates the full, glorious 3W.


This particular Lumotec Oval actually has two extra contact pairs; one pair
goes to the taillight, the other was unused. I can't guess what it was for.
It acts like a direct connection to the dyamo.

Now, you and I would build such a system by stacking up different numbers of LEDs in the front and rear lamps to draw 0.5A* at different voltages but there is no guarantee that BUMM did the simple thing.

However, I suspect that the additional circuitry, if any, inside the BUMM lamps consist only of a rectifier and a voltage regulator, with the regulated total voltage available disposed between the lamps by the choice of LEDs.

I were you, I'd argue that the lamp is old and has earned its cost, but keep my meter handy to check that I'm not cross-wiring it, which could be fatal to the glowing part of the lamps.


The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED set
I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit wired like this:
http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif


For my purposes it's perfectly satisfactory, the only remaining issue
is contriving a good mechanical support for the light bar.

I agree that the old light is overdue for replacement, but the bike is
not much used at night; the purpose of the jury-rigged LED setup is mostly
for a DRL. Someday I'll acquire a modern light, in the meantime this is
much better than nothing.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

What's a "DRL", Bob?
pH


It's a modern totem which functions like a St Christopher
medal.

Certainly one of the most profound statements ever posted to this
site.
--
cheers,

John B.

AMuzi wrote:
On 8/2/2019 11:02 PM, pH wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 4:41:52 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 7:32:14 PM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Assembly instructions:
http://en.bumm.de/service/download/a...tructions.html
These are everything they appear ever to have published, and they're just external wiring connections, basically instructions not to cross over the wires.


That's the sort of document I hoped to find, but the level of detail
and my (non-)grasp of German conspire to defeat comprehension. Oh, wait!

In the figure at

http://en.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_upl...gen/171y-d.pdf

one sees items 1 and 2, with lightning and ground symbols. They
seem to correspond to micro-spade connectors that go to the D-
Toplicht-plus taillight. There's a seemingly matching pair of
micro-spade connectors on the right side of the fixture. That
right-hand pair is unused and might be what I'm looking for.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

It's a bit more complicated than that, Bob. BUMM makes basically two kinds of headlamps, all under the assumption that there is 3W of power available, that is 6V at 15kph, about 10mph, at 500mA. So BUMM makes
--- headlamps intended to consume all of that 3W, to be used with battery taillights,
and
-- headlamps intended to consume 2.4W, to pass through 0.6W for the consumption of the rear lamp.

So, if a lamp from BUMM has a second set of connectors, they're for the rear lamp, and the front lamp will be a bit weaker than the type which dissipates the full, glorious 3W.


This particular Lumotec Oval actually has two extra contact pairs; one pair
goes to the taillight, the other was unused. I can't guess what it was for.
It acts like a direct connection to the dyamo.

Now, you and I would build such a system by stacking up different numbers of LEDs in the front and rear lamps to draw 0.5A* at different voltages but there is no guarantee that BUMM did the simple thing.

However, I suspect that the additional circuitry, if any, inside the BUMM lamps consist only of a rectifier and a voltage regulator, with the regulated total voltage available disposed between the lamps by the choice of LEDs.

I were you, I'd argue that the lamp is old and has earned its cost, but keep my meter handy to check that I'm not cross-wiring it, which could be fatal to the glowing part of the lamps.


The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED set
I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit wired like this:
http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif


For my purposes it's perfectly satisfactory, the only remaining issue
is contriving a good mechanical support for the light bar.

I agree that the old light is overdue for replacement, but the bike is
not much used at night; the purpose of the jury-rigged LED setup is mostly
for a DRL. Someday I'll acquire a modern light, in the meantime this is
much better than nothing.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

What's a "DRL", Bob?
pH


It's a modern totem which functions like a St Christopher
medal.

Bravo! Well put.

bob prohaska

On 8/3/2019 1:38 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 6:30 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED
set I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit

My SON and Shimano dynamos all peak at well over 7V, but the extra pair
of outputs on your lamp is just weird. Maybe it's an output for BUMM's
E-Werk, a dynamo-driven system for charging your phone, GPS, etc.

Unlikely, Lumotec Oval being a 1990's product. Much more likely to be the
same part as in the sidewall-dyno, "wireless" versions intended for
double-wiring to generator and tail.

Yes. And the simplest fix is to buy a replacement LED from Reflectalite.

I'd rather not spend 12+ UKP (NL412 bulb) to turn a dim L.Oval into some DRL
toy, but that's bobp's choice.

I understand the urge to tinker, just as I understand the urge to dig up
ground, plant vegetable seeds, install fences to keep groundhogs and
rabbits away, scratch away at weeds in the hot sun, spend time watering,
picking off bugs, fertilizing, spraying, etc.

I don't do gardening; I buy vegetables. I do some tinkering with lights
and other things. But sometimes I'll spend $15 to get an easy solution
that just works.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 1:38 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 6:30 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED
set I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit

My SON and Shimano dynamos all peak at well over 7V, but the extra pair
of outputs on your lamp is just weird. Maybe it's an output for BUMM's
E-Werk, a dynamo-driven system for charging your phone, GPS, etc.

Unlikely, Lumotec Oval being a 1990's product. Much more likely to be the
same part as in the sidewall-dyno, "wireless" versions intended for
double-wiring to generator and tail.

Yes. And the simplest fix is to buy a replacement LED from Reflectalite.

I'd rather not spend 12+ UKP (NL412 bulb) to turn a dim L.Oval into some DRL
toy, but that's bobp's choice.

I understand the urge to tinker, just as I understand the urge to dig up
ground, plant vegetable seeds, install fences to keep groundhogs and
rabbits away, scratch away at weeds in the hot sun, spend time watering,
picking off bugs, fertilizing, spraying, etc.

I don't do gardening; I buy vegetables. I do some tinkering with lights
and other things. But sometimes I'll spend $15 to get an easy solution
that just works.



It's even better to spend nothing and re-use old parts on hand.
That's what motivated the original question. Thanks to Andre's reply
it worked.

bob prohaska

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 1:34:10 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/2/2019 11:02 PM, pH wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 4:41:52 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 7:32:14 PM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Assembly instructions:
http://en.bumm.de/service/download/a...tructions.html
These are everything they appear ever to have published, and they're just external wiring connections, basically instructions not to cross over the wires.


That's the sort of document I hoped to find, but the level of detail
and my (non-)grasp of German conspire to defeat comprehension. Oh, wait!

In the figure at

http://en.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_upl...gen/171y-d.pdf

one sees items 1 and 2, with lightning and ground symbols. They
seem to correspond to micro-spade connectors that go to the D-
Toplicht-plus taillight. There's a seemingly matching pair of
micro-spade connectors on the right side of the fixture. That
right-hand pair is unused and might be what I'm looking for.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

It's a bit more complicated than that, Bob. BUMM makes basically two kinds of headlamps, all under the assumption that there is 3W of power available, that is 6V at 15kph, about 10mph, at 500mA. So BUMM makes
--- headlamps intended to consume all of that 3W, to be used with battery taillights,
and
-- headlamps intended to consume 2.4W, to pass through 0.6W for the consumption of the rear lamp.

So, if a lamp from BUMM has a second set of connectors, they're for the rear lamp, and the front lamp will be a bit weaker than the type which dissipates the full, glorious 3W.


This particular Lumotec Oval actually has two extra contact pairs; one pair
goes to the taillight, the other was unused. I can't guess what it was for.
It acts like a direct connection to the dyamo.

Now, you and I would build such a system by stacking up different numbers of LEDs in the front and rear lamps to draw 0.5A* at different voltages but there is no guarantee that BUMM did the simple thing.

However, I suspect that the additional circuitry, if any, inside the BUMM lamps consist only of a rectifier and a voltage regulator, with the regulated total voltage available disposed between the lamps by the choice of LEDs.

I were you, I'd argue that the lamp is old and has earned its cost, but keep my meter handy to check that I'm not cross-wiring it, which could be fatal to the glowing part of the lamps.


The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED set
I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit wired like this:
http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif


For my purposes it's perfectly satisfactory, the only remaining issue
is contriving a good mechanical support for the light bar.

I agree that the old light is overdue for replacement, but the bike is
not much used at night; the purpose of the jury-rigged LED setup is mostly
for a DRL. Someday I'll acquire a modern light, in the meantime this is
much better than nothing.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

What's a "DRL", Bob?
pH


It's a modern totem which functions like a St Christopher
medal.

Depends on what you use for daylight running lamps.

I use a BUMM Cyo on its nighttime mode, s set up considerately to blind no one. With the normal motion of the bike, it's unmissable. See the photos near the bottom of the page at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec5.html
where to an oncoming driver my lamp is much more visible than the car behind the bike.

At the back I run the best of the current BUMM rear lamps, Toplight Line Plus, on whenever the bike moves.

The combo works fine, as the photographs show.

Andre Jute

bob prohaska wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 1:38 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 6:30 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED
set I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit

My SON and Shimano dynamos all peak at well over 7V, but the extra pair
of outputs on your lamp is just weird. Maybe it's an output for BUMM's
E-Werk, a dynamo-driven system for charging your phone, GPS, etc.

Unlikely, Lumotec Oval being a 1990's product. Much more likely to be the
same part as in the sidewall-dyno, "wireless" versions intended for
double-wiring to generator and tail.

Yes. And the simplest fix is to buy a replacement LED from Reflectalite.

I'd rather not spend 12+ UKP (NL412 bulb) to turn a dim L.Oval into some DRL
toy, but that's bobp's choice.

I do some tinkering with lights
and other things. But sometimes I'll spend $15 to get an easy solution
that just works.

Please post your bicycle lamp cutoff beamshots that Reflectalite
conveniently forgot to.

(I could *_SAVE_* $15 by using up 2.4 and 3 Watt halogen bulbs, btw.;-)

It's even better to spend nothing and re-use old parts on hand.

Especially as the L.Oval optic is both narrow-angled and very sensitive to
source placement, you'd be lucky to have a retrofitted NL412 bulb to
produce, ab installatio, a useful nightime or at least a sensible DRL pattern.

--
"As the man said, for every complex problem there’s a simple solution, and
it’s wrong."
― Umberto Eco, Foucault's Pendulum

On 8/4/2019 3:30 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
bob prohaska wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 1:38 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 6:30 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED
set I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit

My SON and Shimano dynamos all peak at well over 7V, but the extra pair
of outputs on your lamp is just weird. Maybe it's an output for BUMM's
E-Werk, a dynamo-driven system for charging your phone, GPS, etc.

Unlikely, Lumotec Oval being a 1990's product. Much more likely to be the
same part as in the sidewall-dyno, "wireless" versions intended for
double-wiring to generator and tail.

Yes. And the simplest fix is to buy a replacement LED from Reflectalite.

I'd rather not spend 12+ UKP (NL412 bulb) to turn a dim L.Oval into some DRL
toy, but that's bobp's choice.

I do some tinkering with lights
and other things. But sometimes I'll spend $15 to get an easy solution
that just works.

Please post your bicycle lamp cutoff beamshots that Reflectalite
conveniently forgot to.

(I could *_SAVE_* $15 by using up 2.4 and 3 Watt halogen bulbs, btw.;-)

It's even better to spend nothing and re-use old parts on hand.

Especially as the L.Oval optic is both narrow-angled and very sensitive to
source placement, you'd be lucky to have a retrofitted NL412 bulb to
produce, ab installatio, a useful nightime or at least a sensible DRL pattern.

I don't know about the beam pattern; and I'm not surprised Reflectalite
doesn't post a photo. Even if their website were not one of the most
amateurish I've seen, their LED replacement bulbs are intended to fit
hundreds of different lamps. The most competent company could never post
photos of the hundreds of beam shots.

As I said, I gave one to a friend and he reports he likes it. IIRC, it's
on his ultra-retro bike, and he uses it at night, not as a DRL. But as a
DRL, I can't imagine the Reflectalite bulb is any worse than the
glaringly bright, unfocused DRLs currently on the American market.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 5:10:42 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 12:02:03 AM UTC-4, pH wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 4:41:52 PM UTC-7, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 7:32:14 PM UTC+1, bob prohaska wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Assembly instructions:
http://en.bumm.de/service/download/a...tructions.html
These are everything they appear ever to have published, and they're just external wiring connections, basically instructions not to cross over the wires.


That's the sort of document I hoped to find, but the level of detail
and my (non-)grasp of German conspire to defeat comprehension. Oh, wait!

In the figure at

http://en.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_upl...gen/171y-d.pdf

one sees items 1 and 2, with lightning and ground symbols. They
seem to correspond to micro-spade connectors that go to the D-
Toplicht-plus taillight. There's a seemingly matching pair of
micro-spade connectors on the right side of the fixture. That
right-hand pair is unused and might be what I'm looking for.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

It's a bit more complicated than that, Bob. BUMM makes basically two kinds of headlamps, all under the assumption that there is 3W of power available, that is 6V at 15kph, about 10mph, at 500mA. So BUMM makes
--- headlamps intended to consume all of that 3W, to be used with battery taillights,
and
-- headlamps intended to consume 2.4W, to pass through 0.6W for the consumption of the rear lamp.

So, if a lamp from BUMM has a second set of connectors, they're for the rear lamp, and the front lamp will be a bit weaker than the type which dissipates the full, glorious 3W.


This particular Lumotec Oval actually has two extra contact pairs; one pair
goes to the taillight, the other was unused. I can't guess what it was for.
It acts like a direct connection to the dyamo.

Now, you and I would build such a system by stacking up different numbers of LEDs in the front and rear lamps to draw 0.5A* at different voltages but there is no guarantee that BUMM did the simple thing.

However, I suspect that the additional circuitry, if any, inside the BUMM lamps consist only of a rectifier and a voltage regulator, with the regulated total voltage available disposed between the lamps by the choice of LEDs.

I were you, I'd argue that the lamp is old and has earned its cost, but keep my meter handy to check that I'm not cross-wiring it, which could be fatal to the glowing part of the lamps.


The two unused contacts are AC, seemingly unregulated. With the LED set
I'm using just under 7 volts AC appears on a circuit wired like this:
http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/schematic.gif


For my purposes it's perfectly satisfactory, the only remaining issue
is contriving a good mechanical support for the light bar.

I agree that the old light is overdue for replacement, but the bike is
not much used at night; the purpose of the jury-rigged LED setup is mostly
for a DRL. Someday I'll acquire a modern light, in the meantime this is
much better than nothing.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

What's a "DRL", Bob?
pH

DRL = Daylight Running Light.

Cheers

Thank-you.
pH

Am 03.08.2019 um 01:41 schrieb bob prohaska:
This particular Lumotec Oval actually has two extra contact pairs; one pair
goes to the taillight, the other was unused. I can't guess what it was for.
It acts like a direct connection to the dyamo.

Actually, the standard contacts a

2* "from hub dynamo (cable)"
2* "from old-style dynamo (connector)"
2* "to rear light (connector)"

According to the text, the second and third set are interchangeable.

The switches certainly work correct to ensure no power from a hub dynamo
to the rear light; I would not guess without testing what happens with
power from the dynamo connector to the read light when the light is
switched off.

The power settings are certainly aimed at Dynamo input (i.e. "fixed
power at 0.5A") to be split as 0.4A front and 0.1A rear; there is a
Zener diode somewhere inside as a voltage limiter to prevent burn-though.

But all this extra wiring is completely independent on whether you
replace the front bulb by a front LED (with the appropriate additional
electronics inside).

Rolf

On 8/5/2019 5:05 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 03.08.2019 um 01:41 schrieb bob prohaska:
This particular Lumotec Oval actually has two extra contact pairs; one
pair
goes to the taillight, the other was unused. I can't guess what it was
for.
It acts like a direct connection to the dyamo.

Actually, the standard contacts a

2* "from hub dynamo (cable)"
2* "from old-style dynamo (connector)"
2* "to rear light (connector)"

I'm curious about the internal differences related to a hub dynamo vs.
an old style dynamo. The differences in those dynamos' outputs are
almost entirely just differences in frequency of the AC.


According to the text, the second and third set are interchangeable.

The switches certainly work correct to ensure no power from a hub dynamo
to the rear light; I would not guess without testing what happens with
power from the dynamo connector to the read light when the light is
switched off.

The power settings are certainly aimed at Dynamo input (i.e. "fixed
power at 0.5A") to be split as 0.4A front and 0.1A rear; there is a
Zener diode somewhere inside as a voltage limiter to prevent burn-though.

But all this extra wiring is completely independent on whether you
replace the front bulb by a front LED (with the appropriate additional
electronics inside).

The replacement LEDs from Reflectalite just pop into the same socket as
the original halogen bulb. I wonder if they have some sort of regulating
electronics built in. If so, it must be a very small circuit.


--
- Frank Krygowski