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#11
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
"Bruce Jensen" wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 24, 7:59 am, "Jeff Strickland" wrote: snip It's unclear if the bear, estimated to be about 54 kilograms (120 pounds), had in fact fatally attacked the woman. "They don't know whether the bear was the cause or whether it was just there," said Mark Woodburn, vice-president of Panorama Mountain Village. The ministry is investigating the incident and an autopsy will be done on the bear to determine if it had killed the woman. An autopsy will also be done on the woman. The mountain operations were closed Sunday as RCMP and conservation officers investigated the incident. /snip Jumping to conclusions again, are we? It sounds like the reporter was, anyway. It is very sad that the bear was killed without haivng answered some questions. It seems like there could have been another solution than the wild west variety "shoot first" approach. However, in grizz or cougar country, the LAST thing I'd do is act like a meal and go fast, at least off well-established roads with good side visibility. That not only makes it harder for the person to be aware of what the heck is around the corner, but also gives the predator the impression that you are a frightened snack. Your speed is likely to trigger a chase response in the critter...and you probably cannot outrun either animal, on foot or on wheels. And for heaven's sake, no matter how you travel, carry pepper spray that you can retrieve quickly. Bruce Jensen First, the rangers (searchers of the missing woman) found the bear over a body. The way they recover a human from a bear is that they shoot the bear to protect the other humans from being attacked. People shoot bears. Too bad, so sad. Glad I'm not a bear. Second, they do not know that the woman was going fast or slow. They did not describe the area other than to say she was riding a marked trail -- that appears by other parts of the story to be a ski run in winter. Third, the story does not suggest that the woman may have gone down, and the bear simply took advantage of the situation to have a meal. Fourth, most animals will always go the other way in response to human visitation. Indeed, all animals know people are coming long before people know there are animals in the area. Lastly, what conclusion did the reporter jump to? |
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
On Jul 24, 8:16 am, Bruce Jensen wrote:
It sounds like the reporter was, anyway. It is very sad that the bear was killed without haivng answered some questions. It seems like there could have been another solution than the wild west variety "shoot first" approach. IMHO, RCMP made the right call to shoot the bear. At the time, they probably couldn't be certain she was dead, and obviously the priority was to save her life if at all possible. The bear was guarding the kill and not letting them approach. Look at it from the officer's perspective: The consequences of the opposite scenario (woman bleeding to death while RCMP await a conservation officer to tranquilize the bear) are far worse than perhaps hastily shooting the bear. If nothing else, I am sure that this poor person's family would be grateful that her remains were protected as much as possible. Regards, Anthony |
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
On Jul 24, 9:03 am, "Jeff Strickland" wrote:
First, the rangers (searchers of the missing woman) found the bear over a body. The way they recover a human from a bear is that they shoot the bear to protect the other humans from being attacked. People shoot bears. Not decent ones (sorry, that's slightly churlish). I gather your knowledge of bears is somewhat limited. A 120-pound bear will sometimes protect a food source, but many will be smart enough to recognize if they're outnumbered by humans and retreat. OTOH, many people, especially law enforcement types, are pretty trigger-happy and are liable to shoot *just because.* This is a personal observation based on what I've seen here localy. This article also does not say whether the bear was attempting to defend its "food" so we cannot tell whether the shot was warranted. Finally, small black bears - in fact, any bears apart from polar bears - rarely attack humans as a food source. I believe that more creative and less deadly options *may* have existed. Of course, I was not there, and neither were you. Heck, based on what you say below, the bear may have even willing to retreat if they gave it more than a second of response time. Second, they do not know that the woman was going fast or slow. They did not describe the area other than to say she was riding a marked trail -- that appears by other parts of the story to be a ski run in winter. That's nice. Third, the story does not suggest that the woman may have gone down, and the bear simply took advantage of the situation to have a meal. It does not state it, but it implies that the *possibility exists* with the following paragraphs: "It's unclear if the bear, estimated to be about 54 kilograms (120 pounds), had in fact fatally attacked the woman. "They don't know whether the bear was the cause or whether it was just there," said Mark Woodburn, vice-president of Panorama Mountain Village. " Fourth, most animals will always go the other way in response to human visitation. Indeed, all animals know people are coming long before people know there are animals in the area. Most, but not all, especially if they are familar with otherwise harmless people. I have personally watched thousands of wild animals, bears included, who have made little or no effort to stay at much more than arms length. I have surprised a few, too, and after a brief period of alertness, they may either retreat or go about their business. It depends quite a bit on the the circumstances. Lastly, what conclusion did the reporter jump to?- Hide quoted text - Sorry, I misread - Mike made that conclusion. Actually, the reporter did a pretty good job reporting the facts, and not making assumptions. The statistical probability remains that rapidly moving humans put themselves at greater risk of animal attack than those who walk. Runners and cyclists have been attacked far more than walkers by predators, although not exclusively so. A cyclist moves faster than a walker, and his/her legs will appear as though to run. Finally, the bear may have been unfairly shot. Bruce Jensen |
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
"OzCableguy" wrote in message ... "Terryc" wrote in message ... Give you a tip, if you ever go campng in Northern Australia, do not camp near water. Make it a few hundred metres away. Rather unpopular one bicycle trip when I insisted. NO arguments the next morning from anyone in the group. It was a big ******* that left tracks right where they wanted to camp. I forgot about those. Saying "crikey" should have brought it to mind. :-) There have been verified sightings as far down as Rockhampton too (http://tinyurl.com/2z8wff) but not down this far yet (Brisbane) thank goodness. But I guess there's other scary stuff like the fierce snake, taipans, king browns, red belly black, death adders, redbacks, funnelwebs, blue ringed octopus, irukandji, stonefish... hmmm... maybe we'd be better off with bears and cougars... -- www.ozcableguy.com www.oztechnologies.com Shoot mate. Most of the stuff living in your Outback will either bite you, stick you, or sting you! I spent two years in the NT and let me tell you, you ain't living until you're sitting around a campfire in the evening and someone tells you there's a snake under your chair. After a few minutes FROZEN to my seat I used a flashlight to get him to move. I focused it on the ground and he thought it was warm. He kept trying to move into the light until he was a few feet away and I could move and change my skivvies!! That was "invigorating". Marty |
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
On Jul 24, 12:05 pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:
OTOH, many people, especially law enforcement types, are pretty trigger-happy and are liable to shoot *just because.* This is a personal observation based on what I've seen here localy. Not sure where local is for you, but I can believe that for some areas police might not do such a great job when it comes to dealing with wildlife. However, I know that up here (Yukon territory, north of BC) our RCMP frequently deal with these types of situations. Most of them are trained as conservation officers as well as police. A place like Invermere I would expect the same. A bear guarding a fresh kill is likely to be quite aggressive, and might not be easily forced away, even with gunfire. Probably the worst situation outside of a mother guarding cubs. Like I said in my earlier post, I think the officers made the right call. |
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
I'm not concerned with the welfare of the bear, sorry.
I am concerned with the outlandish lies of Michael J Vandeman that are told in furtherance of the lie that says we should all stay at home and watch nature programs on TV instead of getting a first-hand experience. Mike will tell you that his agenda is bike tires, but it is really rubber. Rubber belongs on cement, not dirt. That is Mike's real agenda. "Bruce Jensen" wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 24, 9:03 am, "Jeff Strickland" wrote: First, the rangers (searchers of the missing woman) found the bear over a body. The way they recover a human from a bear is that they shoot the bear to protect the other humans from being attacked. People shoot bears. Not decent ones (sorry, that's slightly churlish). I gather your knowledge of bears is somewhat limited. A 120-pound bear will sometimes protect a food source, but many will be smart enough to recognize if they're outnumbered by humans and retreat. OTOH, many people, especially law enforcement types, are pretty trigger-happy and are liable to shoot *just because.* This is a personal observation based on what I've seen here localy. This article also does not say whether the bear was attempting to defend its "food" so we cannot tell whether the shot was warranted. Finally, small black bears - in fact, any bears apart from polar bears - rarely attack humans as a food source. I believe that more creative and less deadly options *may* have existed. Of course, I was not there, and neither were you. Heck, based on what you say below, the bear may have even willing to retreat if they gave it more than a second of response time. Second, they do not know that the woman was going fast or slow. They did not describe the area other than to say she was riding a marked trail -- that appears by other parts of the story to be a ski run in winter. That's nice. Third, the story does not suggest that the woman may have gone down, and the bear simply took advantage of the situation to have a meal. It does not state it, but it implies that the *possibility exists* with the following paragraphs: "It's unclear if the bear, estimated to be about 54 kilograms (120 pounds), had in fact fatally attacked the woman. "They don't know whether the bear was the cause or whether it was just there," said Mark Woodburn, vice-president of Panorama Mountain Village. " Fourth, most animals will always go the other way in response to human visitation. Indeed, all animals know people are coming long before people know there are animals in the area. Most, but not all, especially if they are familar with otherwise harmless people. I have personally watched thousands of wild animals, bears included, who have made little or no effort to stay at much more than arms length. I have surprised a few, too, and after a brief period of alertness, they may either retreat or go about their business. It depends quite a bit on the the circumstances. Lastly, what conclusion did the reporter jump to?- Hide quoted text - Sorry, I misread - Mike made that conclusion. Actually, the reporter did a pretty good job reporting the facts, and not making assumptions. The statistical probability remains that rapidly moving humans put themselves at greater risk of animal attack than those who walk. Runners and cyclists have been attacked far more than walkers by predators, although not exclusively so. A cyclist moves faster than a walker, and his/her legs will appear as though to run. Finally, the bear may have been unfairly shot. Bruce Jensen |
#17
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:26:45 +1000, Terryc
wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:34:46 -0700 Subject: Mountain biker killed by bear in BC Mountain bikers go too fast downhill Some mtb'ers. No, ALL mountain bikers go too fast for wildlife & other trail users. Bear attack suspected in mountain biker's death Just a case of meals on wheels. Lots of old people get it every day. Why shouldn't the bears? Good attitude. Biocentric. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#18
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Death Threat from Mountain Biker (was: Mountain biker killed by bear in BC)
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:29:29 GMT, "john" wrote:
Well he's tried the "dazzle them with brilliance" route and has seen that it doesn't work because, well, he's an idiot. Now he's gone to the "baffle them with bull****" route after seeing everyone doesn't fall for how smart he claims he is. I'm just getting back into the sport after a long break. And back in the mid/late 90's he was creeping around too. I was kind of hoping that nature would have taken its course and he would have been run over by a herd of horses or cows or whatever, but no such luck. Too bad there isn't an extermintor for this type of problem. Your death threat is duly notes. And turned over to the authorities. -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#19
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Mountain biker killed by bear in BC
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:41:21 -0000, Anthony DeLorenzo
wrote: On Jul 24, 8:16 am, Bruce Jensen wrote: It sounds like the reporter was, anyway. It is very sad that the bear was killed without haivng answered some questions. It seems like there could have been another solution than the wild west variety "shoot first" approach. IMHO, RCMP made the right call to shoot the bear. At the time, they probably couldn't be certain she was dead, and obviously the priority was to save her life if at all possible. The bear was guarding the kill and not letting them approach. Look at it from the officer's perspective: The consequences of the opposite scenario (woman bleeding to death while RCMP await a conservation officer to tranquilize the bear) are far worse than perhaps hastily shooting the bear. If nothing else, I am sure that this poor person's family would be grateful that her remains were protected as much as possible. That's incredibly selfish. If you were in the bear's position, you wouldn't want to be shot. Humans are the most selfish species in the world.... Regards, Anthony -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#20
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mike vandeman needs mental help
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:01:16 -0400, "Charlie Maxwell"
wrote: mike, you are a very sick puppy. Please seek mental help, counseling, and/or medication. That's nice. Thanks for demonstrating just how sick mountain bikers are. Have a nice day. Charlie Maxwell "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message .. . Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:34:46 -0700 Subject: Mountain biker killed by bear in BC Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande -- I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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