Food for Thought - Well Worth Reading

On 2006-04-26, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Problem is... dealing with boredom and distraction is way way harder
than dealing with aggression, because boredom and distraction is so
entertwined with how modern people use cars that it's almost
impossible to eliminate.

First thing I want to see? Automatics made illegal. They help make
people stupid. And *definitely* cruise control.

THe only way to really drop the toll is to drop the number of cars
being driven by people who don't really want to be driving, they want
to be at their destination. And that means changing the way Australia
runs in a very fundamental way. Can't see that getting up at any
election, can you?

Vote [1] for Space-Time Machine Man.

--
TimC
cpu time/usefulness ratio too high -- core dumped.

On 2006-04-26, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
snip
THe only way to really drop the toll is to drop the number of cars
being driven by people who don't really want to be driving, they want
to be at their destination. And that means changing the way Australia
runs in a very fundamental way. Can't see that getting up at any
election, can you?

Just one of the reasons I wish fuel was about $5 per litre (with
subsidies for freight)...

Why subsidies for freight?

--
TimC
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your
phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch

TimC wrote:

On 2006-04-26, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Problem is... dealing with boredom and distraction is way way harder
than dealing with aggression, because boredom and distraction is so
entertwined with how modern people use cars that it's almost
impossible to eliminate.

First thing I want to see? Automatics made illegal. They help make
people stupid. And *definitely* cruise control.

snip

Why do automatic transmission vehicles make people stupid? I drive one
and find it useful that I can always have two hands on the steering
wheel. Also, the fact that it automatically changes gears makes people
less capable of burning off at lights - at least in a 4 cylinder car.
And I can still throw it in 2nd when going down a "mountain range" as
they call it in SEQ, though it's not much of a range.

As for cruise control, I used a car with it once, and found it very
useful for open highway, particularly at night, when I couldn't see many
landmarks to tell if I changing speed. Without cruise control, I would
look at my speedo, see I was doing 90, speed up a bit, look down a bit
later and discover I was now doing 130. During the day, cruise control
meant that I didn't have to look at my speedo so often and could keep my
eyes on the road/scanning mirrors for more of the time. And after a
marathon, as I drive home, it's useful to be able to relax my foot - of
course when I was close to other vehicles, I got a bit nervous about
trusting the accelerator to the car electronics, and took over. As soon
as I pressed the accelerator or the brake, cruise control switched off.

I would hazard a guess that stupid drivers are stupid drivers regardless
of what they drive, and that autos and cruise control are just fine if
used sensibly. Of course there are bound to be people who use their free
hand to send text messages and who stick their free feet out the window
- but I'd also guess that most of these idiot-types find a way to do it
regardless of their car features...

Tam

TimC Wrote:


Why subsidies for freight?

--
TimC
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate
your
phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch

Who wants to pay $10 a kg for bananas?


--
warrwych

Bleve Wrote:
cfsmtb wrote:
"A week of gentleness in the life of Australia".

Certainly gets my vote.

However the old reptilian brain will probably win out again ..

It's one of those blindlingly obvious things (the issue of the
drivers,
not the roads, being the problem, which is why I have zero patience
for
the crowd that constantly whines about our roads being unsafe, it's
*not* the roads that are the problem, it's the people that use them),
and you're right, human nature is the core of the problem, tied to a
lack of accountabiliy and/or a lack of risk appreciation when "safe"
in
a car.

It's not so much reptilian though, as mamillian, according to Pinker
et
al anyway.


as the guy said - teach people to "think". Not get them to think -
teach them how to think analytically.

The number of kids I get saying to me, my pony won't (fir example) turn
Pony can do it, kid can do it, kid didn't think about the process
involved and consequences of not directing the pony adequately, in the
appropriate time frame. Result? Pony goes anywhere but through the
turn, waiting for the kid to think, analyse and do; and accidents and
injuries may occur as an outcome.

How often does it happen in a car? I don't think we can blame easy
driving cars, driver off with the fairies, distractions etc. A thinking
person takes things into account and still is able to function, act and
understand what they are doing and the consequences of those actions.


--
warrwych

warrwych Wrote:
as the guy said - teach people to "think". Not get them to think - teach
them how to think analytically.

The number of kids I get saying to me, my pony won't (fir example) turn
. Pony can do it, kid can do it, kid didn't think about the process
involved and consequences of not directing the pony adequately, in the
appropriate time frame. Result? Pony goes anywhere but through the
turn, waiting for the kid to think, analyse and do; and accidents and
injuries may occur as an outcome.

How often does it happen in a car? I don't think we can blame easy
driving cars, driver off with the fairies, distractions etc. A thinking
person takes things into account and still is able to function, act and
understand what they are doing and the consequences of those actions.
Everyone is a thinking person, to some extent. It is just their ability
to deal with the distractions and prioritise what is important for every
single minute they are driving in the car. That is the hard part and it
is impacted by traffic volumes - it takes a long time to go a short
distance PLUS you must interact with many other road users - all very
stressful and requires a lot of processing power. Teaching to think
should include developing an understanding of outcomes and
consequences. At the moment it is internally focussed on how to
navigate a car around some streets. There is very little about how to
interact with others and what might happen if the driver screws up.

Apart from basic driver training, I wish people could learn to think
before they even got in the car - Is there a better way of getting
around?


--
sinus

Tamyka Bell Wrote:
TimC wrote:

On 2006-04-26, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Problem is... dealing with boredom and distraction is way way
harder
than dealing with aggression, because boredom and distraction is so
entertwined with how modern people use cars that it's almost
impossible to eliminate.

First thing I want to see? Automatics made illegal. They help make
people stupid. And *definitely* cruise control.

snip

Why do automatic transmission vehicles make people stupid? I drive one
and find it useful that I can always have two hands on the steering
wheel. Also, the fact that it automatically changes gears makes people
less capable of burning off at lights - at least in a 4 cylinder car.
And I can still throw it in 2nd when going down a "mountain range" as
they call it in SEQ, though it's not much of a range.

As for cruise control, I used a car with it once, and found it very
useful for open highway, particularly at night, when I couldn't see
many
landmarks to tell if I changing speed. Without cruise control, I would
look at my speedo, see I was doing 90, speed up a bit, look down a bit
later and discover I was now doing 130. During the day, cruise control
meant that I didn't have to look at my speedo so often and could keep
my
eyes on the road/scanning mirrors for more of the time. And after a
marathon, as I drive home, it's useful to be able to relax my foot - of
course when I was close to other vehicles, I got a bit nervous about
trusting the accelerator to the car electronics, and took over. As soon
as I pressed the accelerator or the brake, cruise control switched off.

I would hazard a guess that stupid drivers are stupid drivers
regardless
of what they drive, and that autos and cruise control are just fine if
used sensibly. Of course there are bound to be people who use their
free
hand to send text messages and who stick their free feet out the window
- but I'd also guess that most of these idiot-types find a way to do it
regardless of their car features...

Tam
Tim, Tam

(I've been wanting to address a response like that for ages)

Intuitively*, I would say that auto transmissions and cruise control
remove the driver just that little bit more from the process which they
are in control of. Likewise driving along with aircon/heater on and the
windows up in a car with suspension which soaks up any feel of the road.


Good drivers may remain good drivers but some of the dozey idiots
behind the wheel will become worse.

(* I would like to see some empirical support for this contention but I
haven't.)

SteveA


--
SteveA

warrwych Wrote:
Who wants to pay $10 a kg for bananas?
$8.99 at the fruit and veg shop now - and none in Safeway or the two
independent groceries around the corner

ali


--
alison_b

SteveA Wrote:
Tim, Tam

(I've been wanting to address a response like that for ages)

SteveA

-SteveA's mission in life is now complete.-


--
cfsmtb

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:21:29 +1000
SteveA wrote:
Intuitively*, I would say that auto transmissions and cruise control
remove the driver just that little bit more from the process which they
are in control of. Likewise driving along with aircon/heater on and the
windows up in a car with suspension which soaks up any feel of the road.

Dunno...

I find the major difference between riding the mighty scooter and the
Guzzi is that on the scooter there's a bit of lag before I take off at
the lights, and it doesn't *quite* rev its ring off when I'm doing it.

On the bike with the manual transmission I leave it in a reasonable
gear and ride it like an auto except when I want to go Very Fast at
which point I redline it and then change gears.

I find in cars that an auto is easier at the transition between very
slow (first) and not quite so slow (second) and I have less aggro when
there's a reason to slow down such as peds or cyclists because I have
less work to do.

Zebee