Wheel bearing - pre-load & run in.

On 9/9/2014 6:35 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:16:43 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

"Ian Field" considered Sat, 6 Sep
2014 20:14:53 +0100 the perfect time to write:



wrote in message
...
yes and no.....thin plated bearings...gray bearings go with worn/used
hubs.

Grade 5 go with above average hubs or as new hubs...grade 5 runs new
longer than gray bearings.

The new ball bearings were very shiny when I put them in, and sort of grey
when I examined them a few days later to see why the hub hadn't stayed
adjusted for long.

All the shinyness had become little shiny flecks in the grease.

That would be evidence for them being plated, not through-hardened.

As you found out, under stress, a plated ball will shed it's plating,
at which point it becomes birdshot in grinding paste.


Does someone actually make plated bearings for sale to the public?
My uncle worked at a bearing factory and he once mentioned that they
were making some gold plated bearings for NASA some sort of space
thingy, but I don't believe I ever encountered a plated "ball bearing"
for general use.


I think that's an urban myth. People see metal flecks from
spalled bearings and mating surfaces and assume it's chrome
peeling of the balls.

Here's a great photo:
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachme...s-102_3001.jpg

or
https://tinyurl.com/p5m4et7


If I recall those were titanium nitride vapor deposition
bearings for NASA. Only gold in color, like this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

and here we have 2 vapor nitride Ti elephants from Force India

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73...e9e1a8fc5a.jpg

"Sir Ridesalot" wrote in message
...
On Monday, September 8, 2014 4:47:10 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message

...

On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:16:43 AM UTC-4, Phil W Lee wrote:

"Ian Field" considered Sat, 6 Sep



2014 20:14:53 +0100 the perfect time to write:



All the shinyness had become little shiny flecks in the grease.



That would be evidence for them being plated, not through-hardened.



As you found out, under stress, a plated ball will shed it's plating,

at which point it becomes birdshot in grinding paste.



I'd have thought it would be essentially impossible to buy soft but
plated

steel balls, when one asked for ball bearings.



Then you'll probably get caught out just like I did.

If you've used soft plated balls a couple of times then tthere's a very
good chance that those balls deformed and knackered the hub cups too.

Given that I found the wheel - and that the bearings were loose and dry
before I replaced the balls, it was most likely the cups that did the
damage.

The fact that the plating fell off the balls is something I've mentioned to
the shop where I bought them.

"AMuzi" wrote in message
...
On 9/9/2014 6:35 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:16:43 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

"Ian Field" considered Sat, 6 Sep
2014 20:14:53 +0100 the perfect time to write:



wrote in message
...
yes and no.....thin plated bearings...gray bearings go with worn/used
hubs.

Grade 5 go with above average hubs or as new hubs...grade 5 runs new
longer than gray bearings.

The new ball bearings were very shiny when I put them in, and sort of
grey
when I examined them a few days later to see why the hub hadn't stayed
adjusted for long.

All the shinyness had become little shiny flecks in the grease.

That would be evidence for them being plated, not through-hardened.

As you found out, under stress, a plated ball will shed it's plating,
at which point it becomes birdshot in grinding paste.


Does someone actually make plated bearings for sale to the public?
My uncle worked at a bearing factory and he once mentioned that they
were making some gold plated bearings for NASA some sort of space
thingy, but I don't believe I ever encountered a plated "ball bearing"
for general use.


I think that's an urban myth. People see metal flecks from spalled
bearings and mating surfaces and assume it's chrome peeling of the balls.

Through hardened balls couldn't have peeled *THAT* much without breaking up
completely.

There was a *LOT* of very shiny flecks in the grease, and the balls were
dull grey after only a couple of days use.

All things considered, the hub was probably dodgy to start with - but it
seems to have uncovered another problem that I might not have found out
about for some time.

At the end of the day - the dodgy hub was a blessing in disguise!

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 10:32:10 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2014 6:35 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Does someone actually make plated bearings for sale to the public?
My uncle worked at a bearing factory and he once mentioned that they
were making some gold plated bearings for NASA some sort of space
thingy, but I don't believe I ever encountered a plated "ball bearing"
for general use.

I think that's an urban myth. People see metal flecks from
spalled bearings and mating surfaces and assume it's chrome
peeling of the balls.


Here's a great photo:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachme...s-102_3001.jpg



or

https://tinyurl.com/p5m4et7

If I recall those were titanium nitride vapor deposition
bearings for NASA. Only gold in color, like this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

IIRC, NASA had some unusual problems with bearings, in that space vacuum
removed all lubricants - in fact, anything that was not the parent metal -
which led to metal-to-metal adhesion and failures.

Actually, one of my bicycling buddies is a recently retired NASA engineer
specializing in bearings. He's now moved out of state, but we still
email occasionally. If people are really curious, I could contact him
about gold (or other) plated bearings for NASA. He may know about them,
if they exist.

But I'm pretty confident this has nothing to do with Ian's problems.

- Frank Krygowski

On 9/9/2014 11:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 10:32:10 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2014 6:35 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Does someone actually make plated bearings for sale to the public?
My uncle worked at a bearing factory and he once mentioned that they
were making some gold plated bearings for NASA some sort of space
thingy, but I don't believe I ever encountered a plated "ball bearing"
for general use.

I think that's an urban myth. People see metal flecks from
spalled bearings and mating surfaces and assume it's chrome
peeling of the balls.


Here's a great photo:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachme...s-102_3001.jpg



or

https://tinyurl.com/p5m4et7

If I recall those were titanium nitride vapor deposition
bearings for NASA. Only gold in color, like this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

IIRC, NASA had some unusual problems with bearings, in that space vacuum
removed all lubricants - in fact, anything that was not the parent metal -
which led to metal-to-metal adhesion and failures.

Actually, one of my bicycling buddies is a recently retired NASA engineer
specializing in bearings. He's now moved out of state, but we still
email occasionally. If people are really curious, I could contact him
about gold (or other) plated bearings for NASA. He may know about them,
if they exist.

But I'm pretty confident this has nothing to do with Ian's problems.

- Frank Krygowski


couldn't find any reference to gold or TiN in NASA bearings
but I did find this:

http://www.ebearing.com/news2001/news235.htm

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Every second, the high-pressure fuel turbopumps must supply up to 970 pounds (440 kg) of liquid oxygen and 162 pounds (73kg) of liquid hydrogen. The pump bearings themselves must sustain the main pumpshaft speed of 30,000 RPM and handle up to 25,000 horsepower. Finally, the bearings must have an operating temperature range of plus or minus 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit (815 degrees Celsius).

holy cow !

My father managed a company made power supply resistors for NASA esp the Saturn moon booster. I had a ham license asking what the resistors cost. I remember $300.

Resistors were soaked in an oil solution in an 'aquarium' at 300-400 degrees. I was told ...not to touch the aquarium.

Never did see the ceramics mixed.

Sounds like Deore

On 9/9/2014 1:35 PM, AMuzi wrote:



couldn't find any reference to gold or TiN in NASA bearings but I did
find this:

http://www.ebearing.com/news2001/news235.htm

I found this: From http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/spacemech/vol1.html
"Solid lubricant films are used in a variety of mechanisms on various
spacecraft and launch vehicles. Relative to liquid lubricants, solid
lubricants generally have lower vapor pressures, better boundary
lubrication properties and relative insensitivity to radiation effects,
and operate in wider temperature ranges. [Hilton]

Lead coating has had good success as a solid lubricant in vacuum
applications.
Optimum performance of lead and other metals is achieved at
approximately 1 um (micron) thickness.
Deposition of soft metals (Pb, Au, Ag, In) by ion plating provides
excellent adhesion. These films have been particularly effective in
spacecraft bearings found in solar array drive mechanisms in European
satellites and on the Hubble space telescope.
A particular disadvantage of lead is that it oxidizes rapidly and
must be stored in vacuum dry environments.
Gold and silver are used in situations requiring electrical
conductivity.
Sputter-deposited MoS2 has a lower coefficient of friction than
ion-plated Pb (0.01 versus 0.1), which means that MoS2 components should
develop less torque. "


--
- Frank Krygowski

poster applied wong method. Preload is for almost new hubs. Needs a very regular bearing wear line on cones.

If a used assembly is preloaded fersure either bearings cones or both will quickly wear.

Opinion here is fooling with new cones and preload is for racer types and racer events...ie you have the equipment n hubs are brought up to new spec. For the tinker racer.

For usd street junk, new bearings, locktite, boundary thick grease: assembled to roll roll roll

The Yellow jersey should share the secret with us


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYtgkPF9ekQ

AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2014 11:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 10:32:10 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2014 6:35 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Does someone actually make plated bearings for sale to the public?
My uncle worked at a bearing factory and he once mentioned that they
were making some gold plated bearings for NASA some sort of space
thingy, but I don't believe I ever encountered a plated "ball bearing"
for general use.

I think that's an urban myth. People see metal flecks from
spalled bearings and mating surfaces and assume it's chrome
peeling of the balls.


Here's a great photo:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachme...s-102_3001.jpg



or

https://tinyurl.com/p5m4et7

If I recall those were titanium nitride vapor deposition
bearings for NASA. Only gold in color, like this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

IIRC, NASA had some unusual problems with bearings, in that space vacuum
removed all lubricants - in fact, anything that was not the parent metal -
which led to metal-to-metal adhesion and failures.

Actually, one of my bicycling buddies is a recently retired NASA engineer
specializing in bearings. He's now moved out of state, but we still
email occasionally. If people are really curious, I could contact him
about gold (or other) plated bearings for NASA. He may know about them,
if they exist.

But I'm pretty confident this has nothing to do with Ian's problems.

- Frank Krygowski


couldn't find any reference to gold or TiN in NASA bearings but I did find this:

http://www.ebearing.com/news2001/news235.htm


Good for +/- 1500 F. That's a hell of a trick.