HEART RATE

wrote:
Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a
population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way
to find out what max HR is is to induce it.

Isn't there a correlation between nose length and the
number of doughnuts you can carry?

Bob Schwartz

"Donald Munro" wrote in message
. com...
wrote:
Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based
on measuring the circumfrence of your head.

Ted van de Weteringe wrote:
Thanks, I am going to use that.

You must have a big head.

Well, for certain you have a big mouth. Though my guess is that in person
you're really quiet.

"Then there are the differences among sports. Swimmers, for example,
have lower heart rates when they swim than runners when they run. The
reason, Dr. O'Connor explained, is that during running, your heart has
to push blood against gravity to bring it to your head. During
swimming, your heart does not have to exert that extra force."
"Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up.
A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up
pretty
high up there."
In cycle riding position then what? Warming up, awakening lactose
cycles in the hands, arms, neck, tissue surounding cranial nerve
pathways on the neck and shoulders, back muscles takes several short
sprints up-standing? Better to stretch and jog before riding or
swimming.
Your warmup may indicate a training hole where the lactose threshold
is slow to respond. Read Carmichael/Armstrong's training manual. As I
ease up on the total mileage, my lactose threshold moves further away
into each ride. Before cutting back from daily 25 mile rides, that
threshold was bang off the start with no lag.
Somewhere here is written something about aerobic thresholds.
Practically, aerobic energy supply doesn't contribute to riding hard.
On pumping capacity: short frequent runs may give larger gains than
stressing the heart to max. Try squeezing a tennis ball in each hand
to pump blood back up your arms, relaxes the atrium.

wrote in message
...

Fats and carbs will be burned at higher intensities as well, but I
agree that using HR is a nice way to keep the intensity at a level
that doesn't waste time by being too easy, nor too hard which could
result in less total work due to burnout.

So, Joe, you ride a bike only as a workout?

On Apr 11, 3:29*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
? wrote:
[...] I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...

Eddy Mazzoleni, real life inspiration for the legendary Fabrizio
Mazzoleni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Mazzoleni?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

sorry; didn't think I had to be more specific

the legendary eddy.....

( you mean eddy the eagle ?
no, the merckx

On Apr 11, 7:20*am, " wrote:
On Apr 11, 12:34 am, wrote:





On Apr 11, 12:31 am, Ted van de Weteringe

wrote:
Andrew Price wrote:
210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4

Are tou sure you put the brackets right? Seems a bit pointless to
separate 210 + 4.

max hr formulas are techno-medico bull... do a standing out of the
saddle run up a tough incline, or hold a good sprint at the end of a
few hours on the road- you'll see your max or thereabouts; and you'll
see your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during
the spring. I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and
there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual
than yourself; hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual
exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during
the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to
continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually
speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr
values are irrelevant

Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up. A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up pretty
high up there. Getting your heart rate truly high is a pain in the ass
and I don't enjoy it that much. You should aim at getting dry heaves,
or even barfing. When I was younger I would do sprint repeats once a
weak. It was awful.

Andres- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

warm up of course; I have to go about 20 min to get to some worthwhile
inclines, so I was speaking from a personal perspective.

but I was thinking a bit more last night after I posted and I wonder
if the max hr is more of a pain threshold; the point where one says
"enough !" where someone else chooses to continue, I always feel I can
do more but don't because the agony becomes greater- this is
especially true of roller workouts where there are fewer variables to
influence the outcome; and the truth is I get scared that I might be
damaging my heart so I start to ease off then- but then at least I
know I can go that hard and survive, ergo "permission to continue"

dry heaves or barfing...never got there while training; but to the
blackout point a few times, but that is meaningless because the
question when cycling is where do you want to go ? how fast do you
want to go ? faster than before ? or faster than someone else ?; an
interesting example I had reciently is last week I did a 3hr hilly
ride which I felt went very well and discvovered after that almost to
the date 1 year ago I had recorded the same route under very similar
conditions; the times marked at the usual markers were within minutes
of each other and the hr graphs when overlayed and compared kilometer
to kilometer, was almost parallel. so what changed ? I was a year
older and and maybe 2 kgs lighter; avg hr; max hr; times, avg speed,
less than 2% difference.

"datakoll" wrote in message
...

"Then there are the differences among sports. Swimmers, for example,
have lower heart rates when they swim than runners when they run. The
reason, Dr. O'Connor explained, is that during running, your heart has
to push blood against gravity to bring it to your head. During
swimming, your heart does not have to exert that extra force."
"Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up.
A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up
pretty
high up there."
In cycle riding position then what? Warming up, awakening lactose
cycles in the hands, arms, neck, tissue surounding cranial nerve
pathways on the neck and shoulders, back muscles takes several short
sprints up-standing? Better to stretch and jog before riding or
swimming.
Your warmup may indicate a training hole where the lactose threshold
is slow to respond. Read Carmichael/Armstrong's training manual. As I
ease up on the total mileage, my lactose threshold moves further away
into each ride. Before cutting back from daily 25 mile rides, that
threshold was bang off the start with no lag.
Somewhere here is written something about aerobic thresholds.
Practically, aerobic energy supply doesn't contribute to riding hard.
On pumping capacity: short frequent runs may give larger gains than
stressing the heart to max. Try squeezing a tennis ball in each hand
to pump blood back up your arms, relaxes the atrium.

Swimming has lower HRs because the water helps remove heat from the body so
much better. Competition pools are kept at 78 degrees F.

"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
...

"datakoll" wrote in message
...

"Then there are the differences among sports. Swimmers, for example,
have lower heart rates when they swim than runners when they run. The
reason, Dr. O'Connor explained, is that during running, your heart has
to push blood against gravity to bring it to your head. During
swimming, your heart does not have to exert that extra force."
"Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up.
A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up
pretty
high up there."
In cycle riding position then what? Warming up, awakening lactose
cycles in the hands, arms, neck, tissue surounding cranial nerve
pathways on the neck and shoulders, back muscles takes several short
sprints up-standing? Better to stretch and jog before riding or
swimming.
Your warmup may indicate a training hole where the lactose threshold
is slow to respond. Read Carmichael/Armstrong's training manual. As I
ease up on the total mileage, my lactose threshold moves further away
into each ride. Before cutting back from daily 25 mile rides, that
threshold was bang off the start with no lag.
Somewhere here is written something about aerobic thresholds.
Practically, aerobic energy supply doesn't contribute to riding hard.
On pumping capacity: short frequent runs may give larger gains than
stressing the heart to max. Try squeezing a tennis ball in each hand
to pump blood back up your arms, relaxes the atrium.

Swimming has lower HRs because the water helps remove heat from the body
so much better. Competition pools are kept at 78 degrees F.

Also, wouldn't the blood descending from the head help to offset the
pressure needed to return the blood from the lower extremities back up to
the heart?

On Apr 11, 3:56*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
wrote in message

...



Fats and carbs will be burned at higher intensities as well, but I
agree that using HR is a nice way to keep the intensity at a level
that doesn't waste time by being too easy, nor too hard which could
result in less total work due to burnout.

So, Joe, you ride a bike only as a workout?

Nope. That's partly why I don't use an HRM either.

I only meant the comment in the context of someone trying to maximize
weight loss. Sure they would burn more by going harder, but it
wouldn't be something they could do for long enough.

Joseph

On Apr 11, 10:06 am, wrote:
On Apr 11, 7:20 am, " wrote:



On Apr 11, 12:34 am, wrote:

On Apr 11, 12:31 am, Ted van de Weteringe

wrote:
Andrew Price wrote:
210 - (half age in years) - (0.11*(weight in kg)) + 4

Are tou sure you put the brackets right? Seems a bit pointless to
separate 210 + 4.

max hr formulas are techno-medico bull... do a standing out of the
saddle run up a tough incline, or hold a good sprint at the end of a
few hours on the road- you'll see your max or thereabouts; and you'll
see your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during
the spring. I read that eddy had a very low max, something like
150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and
there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual
than yourself; hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual
exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during
the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to
continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually
speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr
values are irrelevant

Yours is a good way of doing it. Ideally, you want to be warmed up. A
good way of doing it is to do several short sprints up a hill after a
good warm up. By the fifth or six sprint, your heart rate should get
up there. Running up hill sprints should also get your heart up pretty
high up there. Getting your heart rate truly high is a pain in the ass
and I don't enjoy it that much. You should aim at getting dry heaves,
or even barfing. When I was younger I would do sprint repeats once a
weak. It was awful.

Andres- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

warm up of course; I have to go about 20 min to get to some worthwhile
inclines, so I was speaking from a personal perspective.

but I was thinking a bit more last night after I posted and I wonder
if the max hr is more of a pain threshold; the point where one says
"enough !" where someone else chooses to continue, I always feel I can
do more but don't because the agony becomes greater- this is
especially true of roller workouts where there are fewer variables to
influence the outcome; and the truth is I get scared that I might be
damaging my heart so I start to ease off then- but then at least I
know I can go that hard and survive, ergo "permission to continue"

dry heaves or barfing...never got there while training; but to the
blackout point a few times, but that is meaningless because the
question when cycling is where do you want to go ? how fast do you
want to go ? faster than before ? or faster than someone else ?; an
interesting example I had reciently is last week I did a 3hr hilly
ride which I felt went very well and discvovered after that almost to
the date 1 year ago I had recorded the same route under very similar
conditions; the times marked at the usual markers were within minutes
of each other and the hr graphs when overlayed and compared kilometer
to kilometer, was almost parallel. so what changed ? I was a year
older and and maybe 2 kgs lighter; avg hr; max hr; times, avg speed,
less than 2% difference.

I was thinking that at the point that you feel like barfing, passing
out, dizy, etc, you are pretty close to your max heart rate. In AT
(aerobic threshold) you feel the exhaustion and pain while trying to
maintain AT. This is when you are going close to max on a long hill.
This is the point that you produce lactic acid at the same rate or
slightly higher rate than you get rid of it. It hurts because you
accumulate lactic acid while your heart and breathing increase to get
rid of it.

With sprints, you don't necessarily feel the pain until a little after
the all out effort. In sprinting, you engage your anaerobic system.
and go until your legs give out. The all out part of a sprint may last
10 to 20 seconds. After that you can't go any more because your legs
are flooded with lactic acid. Then it takes a few seconds for your
heart to catch up to send enough blood to the muscles to start getting
rid of lactic acid. So, usually in the sprint, there is a delayed
effect where the heart does not increase and then when you stop, it
shoots up.

So, let's say that you are riding at around your AT and it is 170. At
that point, you sprint. If you look at your heart rate monitor it may
go to 174-176. When your legs give out and you stop, your heart will
keep going up to 185-190 and then it will start going down.

After a few sprints, the max heart rate that your monitor reads will
be pretty close to your true max, I think.

For some reason, in my case, when my heart rate and respiration shoots
up, I start to dry heave. If I do lots of sprints I end up with a
headache. I haven't had that feeling in a long time. Now, I am mister
aerobic. I can go forever and keep a hard effort within the Aerobic
range. However, I rarely get into AT or sprint, and I really don't
like to either.


Andres