Ultimate low-spoke-count rear wheel

On Oct 6, 5:55*am, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, kolldata wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, thirty-six wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

I have never used wrenches that you adjust the torque. I've always
done everything by hand. After 30 years of working on my bikes, I have
never had any problems. Anyone who needs a torque wrench to tighten
pedals is completely incompetent and should be kept away from any bike
repair task.

Phil W Lee writes:

Dave Lehnen considered Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:04:03
-0700 the perfect time to write:

wrote:
unamazing
this is 'invented' about 10 times a year by hapless industrial design
students
heavy, expensive, inefficient, weak

wle

Sure, that's all true. But it stops the dastardly rider from the Cinzano
team from taking you out of the race by sticking his frame pump through
your spokes.

And confuses the hell out of squirrels

I suggest the addition of a small reservoir of kerosene, and a few
nozzles -- A person with a pack of pyrophilic trained squirrels could put
together a really spectacular circus act.
--

On Oct 6, 6:57*pm, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:39:30 -0700 (PDT), "









wrote:
On Oct 6, 5:55*am, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, kolldata wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, thirty-six wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

I have never used wrenches that you adjust the torque. I've always
done everything by hand. After 30 years of working on my bikes, I have
never had any problems. Anyone who needs a torque wrench to tighten
pedals is completely incompetent and should be kept away from any bike
repair task.

While on the surface the common conception that good mechanics don't
need torque wrenches will suffice it really isn't a universal truth.
While one can, if a competent mechanic, torque things evenly and
probably the pedals won't fall off but *if, for instance, you have
always worked on conventional metal framed bikes and are suddenly
faced with a carbon bike your experience may very well result in
stripped threads.

--
John B.

Of course, an experienced mechanic working with a new materials ceases
to be experienced with respect to that material and needs some
training and practice. A good mechanic will be aware of this and will
practice prior to tightening things. I have tightened carbon
components carefully and have had no problems. with carbon, I may try
to err on the light end first test it repeatedly and then tighten a
tad more.

In article ,
says...
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Seems they were so embarassed by the bike that they were only willing to
ride it in the dark.

Mike

On Oct 7, 1:57*am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Oct 6, 12:55*pm, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, kolldata wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, thirty-six wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

Yet you manage to go out of your way and use an anti-sieze grease
which takes away the simple feedback mechanism which reminds one when
to stop cranking. * Most home mechanics need these cues to get the
fastening torque high enough, without stripping the thread. If I used
a 24" lever, the simple act of standing on it would likely be too much
for the crank thread. * The normal 14" pedal spanner does the job well
and gets the pedal axle to a cracking torque with a little bouncing.
A regular 15mm spanner is not long enough, even with all my weight and
bouncing on the spanner.

I don't think that anyone mentioned anti-seize but regardless;
anti-seize is used on many fittings and it apparently isn't a cause
for over torque.

But your comments about "standing on the wrench" is a bit confusing as
if you are the normal, plumpish British chappie you probably weigh in
the neighborhood of, say 170 lbs.

About 150 lb right now.

Using a 14" spanner, as you say,
then by standing on the wrench you have torqued the fastener to some
14 X 170 lbs = 2,380 inch pounds.

Nah, stop exagerating , about 170 ft.lb because I'm measuring the
whole length of the spanner, not giving it's effective length.


Shimano specifies some 304 inch lbs. of torque for their pedals - see
Shimano Technical Service Instructions sheet for PD-M 959, 540, 520
pedals. (Usually comes packed with a new set of pedals).


Must be made of veined cheese.

On Oct 10, 2:07*pm, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:57 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 6, 12:55 pm, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, kolldata wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, thirty-six wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

Yet you manage to go out of your way and use an anti-sieze grease
which takes away the simple feedback mechanism which reminds one when
to stop cranking. Most home mechanics need these cues to get the
fastening torque high enough, without stripping the thread. If I used
a 24" lever, the simple act of standing on it would likely be too much
for the crank thread. The normal 14" pedal spanner does the job well
and gets the pedal axle to a cracking torque with a little bouncing.
A regular 15mm spanner is not long enough, even with all my weight and
bouncing on the spanner.

I don't think that anyone mentioned anti-seize but regardless;
anti-seize is used on many fittings and it apparently isn't a cause
for over torque.

But your comments about "standing on the wrench" is a bit confusing as
if you are the normal, plumpish British chappie you probably weigh in
the neighborhood of, say 170 lbs.

About 150 lb right now.

Using a 14" spanner, as you say,
then by standing on the wrench you have torqued the fastener to some
14 X 170 lbs = 2,380 inch pounds.

O.K. !50 lbs and a 14" 9/16" spanner. Subtract half the width of the
nut from 14" = 13-7/16" = 13.4375 X 150 =2015.625 "lb. if you want to
be picky.

No, I'm not being picky, you are being an arse with your 6 significant
places. The centre of my hand or the placement of the ball of my
foot on the spanner is not going to be at the very end and 2" in is
probably a good estimate, especially whenthe other end is a fixed cup
spanner.


Nah, *stop exagerating , *about 170 ft.lb *because I'm measuring the
whole length of the spanner, not giving it's effective length.

Shimano specifies some 304 inch lbs. of torque for their pedals - see
Shimano Technical Service Instructions sheet for PD-M 959, 540, 520
pedals. (Usually comes packed with a new set of pedals).

Must be made of veined cheese.

I don't know if you have cheesy pedals but 304 "lbs is the number
Shimano mentions.


Look, if pedal spanners are that long to remove a pedal because of
self tightening, then to prevent fretting on the crank face, one must
tighten to a state which a pedal would self-tighten if otherwise
fastened to a low torque. In this way there is no relative movement
between pedal axle and crank when in use, either at the track or
climbing a 1in3 with a 54" gear on 170mm cranks.

On 12/10/2011 12:46 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:37:40 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On Oct 10, 2:07 pm, John wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:57 am, John wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 6, 12:55 pm, John wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

Yet you manage to go out of your way and use an anti-sieze grease
which takes away the simple feedback mechanism which reminds one when
to stop cranking. Most home mechanics need these cues to get the
fastening torque high enough, without stripping the thread. If I used
a 24" lever, the simple act of standing on it would likely be too much
for the crank thread. The normal 14" pedal spanner does the job well
and gets the pedal axle to a cracking torque with a little bouncing.
A regular 15mm spanner is not long enough, even with all my weight and
bouncing on the spanner.

I don't think that anyone mentioned anti-seize but regardless;
anti-seize is used on many fittings and it apparently isn't a cause
for over torque.

But your comments about "standing on the wrench" is a bit confusing as
if you are the normal, plumpish British chappie you probably weigh in
the neighborhood of, say 170 lbs.

About 150 lb right now.

Using a 14" spanner, as you say,
then by standing on the wrench you have torqued the fastener to some
14 X 170 lbs = 2,380 inch pounds.

O.K. !50 lbs and a 14" 9/16" spanner. Subtract half the width of the
nut from 14" = 13-7/16" = 13.4375 X 150 =2015.625 "lb. if you want to
be picky.

No, I'm not being picky, you are being an arse with your 6 significant
places. The centre of my hand or the placement of the ball of my
foot on the spanner is not going to be at the very end and 2" in is
probably a good estimate, especially whenthe other end is a fixed cup
spanner.

My figures are a cut and paste from the calculator but if you prefer I
can round them.


Nah, stop exagerating , about 170 ft.lb because I'm measuring the
whole length of the spanner, not giving it's effective length.

O.K. we'll try again. A 14 in. 9/16 spanner with your 2 inch from the
end is effectively approximately 1/2 of 9/16 + half your hand width +
2 inches. or 14" - (0.28 + 2 + 1.75) or 10" X your stated 170 lbs =
1,700 inch lbs. or something like 5 times what Shimano says.

Shimano specifies some 304 inch lbs. of torque for their pedals - see
Shimano Technical Service Instructions sheet for PD-M 959, 540, 520
pedals. (Usually comes packed with a new set of pedals).

304 in. lbs. is the minimum.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830672281.pdf

"Tightening torque:
35 – 55 N·m
{304 – 477 in. lbs.}"

So only about 4 times the recommended.

Personally, I've never needed to do pedals up as tight as would happen
by bouncing on a pedal spanner though.

--
JS.

On Oct 12, 3:20*am, James wrote:
On 12/10/2011 12:46 PM, John B. wrote:









On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:37:40 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
*wrote:

On Oct 10, 2:07 pm, John *wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

*wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:57 am, John *wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

*wrote:
On Oct 6, 12:55 pm, John *wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

*wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John *wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

*wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John *wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

*wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, *wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, *wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank *wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

Yet you manage to go out of your way and use an anti-sieze grease
which takes away the simple feedback mechanism which reminds one when
to stop cranking. Most home mechanics need these cues to get the
fastening torque high enough, without stripping the thread. If I used
a 24" lever, the simple act of standing on it would likely be too much
for the crank thread. The normal 14" pedal spanner does the job well
and gets the pedal axle to a cracking torque with a little bouncing.
A regular 15mm spanner is not long enough, even with all my weight and
bouncing on the spanner.

I don't think that anyone mentioned anti-seize but regardless;
anti-seize is used on many fittings and it apparently isn't a cause
for over torque.

But your comments about "standing on the wrench" is a bit confusing as
if you are the normal, plumpish British chappie you probably weigh in
the neighborhood of, say 170 lbs.

About 150 lb right now.

Using a 14" spanner, as you say,
then by standing on the wrench you have torqued the fastener to some
14 X 170 lbs = 2,380 inch pounds.

O.K. !50 lbs and a 14" 9/16" spanner. Subtract half the width of the
nut from 14" = 13-7/16" = 13.4375 X 150 =2015.625 "lb. if you want to
be picky.

No, I'm not being picky, you are being an arse with your 6 significant
places. * The centre of my hand or the placement of the ball of my
foot on the spanner is not going to be at the very end and 2" in is
probably a good estimate, especially whenthe other end is a fixed cup
spanner.

My figures are a cut and paste from the calculator but if you prefer I
can round them.

Nah, *stop exagerating , *about 170 ft.lb *because I'm measuring the
whole length of the spanner, not giving it's effective length.

O.K. we'll try again. *A 14 in. 9/16 spanner with your 2 inch from the
end is effectively approximately 1/2 of 9/16 + half your hand width +
2 inches. or 14" - (0.28 + 2 + 1.75) *or 10" X your stated 170 lbs =
1,700 inch lbs. or something like 5 times what Shimano says.

Shimano specifies some 304 inch lbs. of torque for their pedals - see
Shimano Technical Service Instructions sheet for PD-M 959, 540, 520
pedals. (Usually comes packed with a new set of pedals).

304 in. lbs. is the minimum.

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...e/SI/Pedals/PD...

"Tightening torque:
35 – 55 N·m
{304 – 477 in. lbs.}"

So only about 4 times the recommended.

Personally, I've never needed to do pedals up as tight as would happen
by bouncing on a pedal spanner though.

--
JS.

It's only torquing up after the lubricant has shifted and the threads
close. The little bounce is required because there should be no
lubricating effect as the oil has been displaced, it's just to
overcome the stiction. If you use grease, you could overstess the
crank threads using this retorque as the threads remain lubricated.
But the axle tension will drop when the grease eventually displaces
and the crak face is then at risk of the dreaded fretting. ;-)

On Oct 12, 2:46*am, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:37:40 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:07 pm, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:57 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 6, 12:55 pm, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, kolldata wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, thirty-six wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

Yet you manage to go out of your way and use an anti-sieze grease
which takes away the simple feedback mechanism which reminds one when
to stop cranking. Most home mechanics need these cues to get the
fastening torque high enough, without stripping the thread. If I used
a 24" lever, the simple act of standing on it would likely be too much
for the crank thread. The normal 14" pedal spanner does the job well
and gets the pedal axle to a cracking torque with a little bouncing.
A regular 15mm spanner is not long enough, even with all my weight and
bouncing on the spanner.

I don't think that anyone mentioned anti-seize but regardless;
anti-seize is used on many fittings and it apparently isn't a cause
for over torque.

But your comments about "standing on the wrench" is a bit confusing as
if you are the normal, plumpish British chappie you probably weigh in
the neighborhood of, say 170 lbs.

About 150 lb right now.

Using a 14" spanner, as you say,
then by standing on the wrench you have torqued the fastener to some
14 X 170 lbs = 2,380 inch pounds.

O.K. !50 lbs and a 14" 9/16" spanner. Subtract half the width of the
nut from 14" = 13-7/16" = 13.4375 X 150 =2015.625 "lb. if you want to
be picky.

No, I'm not being picky, you are being an arse with your 6 significant
places. * The centre of my hand or the placement of the ball of my
foot on the spanner is not going to be at the very end and 2" in is
probably a good estimate, especially whenthe other end is a fixed cup
spanner.

My figures are a cut and paste from the calculator but if you prefer I
can round them.



Nah, stop exagerating , about 170 ft.lb because I'm measuring the
whole length of the spanner, not giving it's effective length.

O.K. we'll try again. *A 14 in. 9/16 spanner with your 2 inch from the
end is effectively approximately 1/2 of 9/16 + half your hand width +
2 inches. or 14" - (0.28 + 2 + 1.75) *or 10" X your stated 170 lbs =
1,700 inch lbs. or something like 5 times what Shimano says.









Shimano specifies some 304 inch lbs. of torque for their pedals - see
Shimano Technical Service Instructions sheet for PD-M 959, 540, 520
pedals. (Usually comes packed with a new set of pedals).

Must be made of veined cheese.

I don't know if you have cheesy pedals but 304 "lbs is the number
Shimano mentions.

Look, if pedal spanners are that long to remove a pedal because of
self tightening, then to prevent fretting on the crank face, one must
tighten to a state which a pedal would self-tighten if otherwise
fastened to a low torque. * In this way there is no relative movement
between pedal axle and crank when in use, either at the track or
climbing a 1in3 with a 54" gear on 170mm cranks.

--
John B.

Good job I don't use Shimano pedals or cranks or my life would fall
apart. What did Campagnolo and Time say back in 1989 or so? I
think it was a damn sight more than what you say Shimano are saying.
I'll admit I'm at the upper end of what is used, but this is the sort
of level used by professional bike mechanics. All the skinny guys
certainly lift their feet off the floor.

On 12/10/2011 1:58 PM, thirty-six wrote:
On Oct 12, 2:46 am, John wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:37:40 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:07 pm, John wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 7, 1:57 am, John wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 6, 12:55 pm, John wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 08:12:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, John wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 5, 2:36 am, John wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:24:57 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Oct 4, 4:21 pm, wrote:
On Oct 2, 9:16 am, wrote:

On Oct 2, 4:31 pm, Frank wrote:

wrote:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicycle/14216/

Intricate gearing:
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110818/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110819/
http://www.gizmag.com/spokeless-bicy...icture/110820/
Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Those pedals better be held in with Loctite. Because they probably
didn't spend the money on a tandem front crank.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There is such a thing as a pedal spanner. Stand on it to tighten the
pedal then bounce a little to crack it on full whack. It never shifts
from this installed position in either direction despite your
unfounded fears.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

place your 14 or 15 long handle open end wrench on shaft with the
unoccupied end grabbed by a large vise grip. brace pedal upward with
tuba4 and stand on it !

Pedal spanner should have a 22degree offset head and be twice the
length of the crank, which is turned so that the pedal to be cracked
tight is near the bottom of the cycle. Very occasionally it is
helpful to hold the rear brake. Should the spanner or mechanic slip,
he has only a little way to fall. With a genuine spanner, it doesn't
slip. Plimsoles work well for me.

To paraphrase someone or another:

It might be better if you used the word " torqued." Cracked can mean
broken. So awfully inaccurate, you should never
use the word.

--
John B.

No, it's not a euphemism and there's no-one near death's door,
"cracked tight" is the correct term as the thread is heard and/or felt
to stick, slip, stick. Torqued does not convey the feel nor noise.

As I have said in other posts, "England must be different". I can't
think of anything that I was tightening that goes "stick, slip,
click". But specifically pedals - you just put a 24 inch cheater bar
on the wrench and pull. Smooth as silk if you use anti-seize.

--
John B.

Which means you have no feedback and so can easily overtorque a soft
crank ith a 24" long bar.

Only for the uninitiated. A competent mechanic doesn't do that.

--
John B.

Yet you manage to go out of your way and use an anti-sieze grease
which takes away the simple feedback mechanism which reminds one when
to stop cranking. Most home mechanics need these cues to get the
fastening torque high enough, without stripping the thread. If I used
a 24" lever, the simple act of standing on it would likely be too much
for the crank thread. The normal 14" pedal spanner does the job well
and gets the pedal axle to a cracking torque with a little bouncing.
A regular 15mm spanner is not long enough, even with all my weight and
bouncing on the spanner.

I don't think that anyone mentioned anti-seize but regardless;
anti-seize is used on many fittings and it apparently isn't a cause
for over torque.

But your comments about "standing on the wrench" is a bit confusing as
if you are the normal, plumpish British chappie you probably weigh in
the neighborhood of, say 170 lbs.

About 150 lb right now.

Using a 14" spanner, as you say,
then by standing on the wrench you have torqued the fastener to some
14 X 170 lbs = 2,380 inch pounds.

O.K. !50 lbs and a 14" 9/16" spanner. Subtract half the width of the
nut from 14" = 13-7/16" = 13.4375 X 150 =2015.625 "lb. if you want to
be picky.

No, I'm not being picky, you are being an arse with your 6 significant
places. The centre of my hand or the placement of the ball of my
foot on the spanner is not going to be at the very end and 2" in is
probably a good estimate, especially whenthe other end is a fixed cup
spanner.

My figures are a cut and paste from the calculator but if you prefer I
can round them.



Nah, stop exagerating , about 170 ft.lb because I'm measuring the
whole length of the spanner, not giving it's effective length.

O.K. we'll try again. A 14 in. 9/16 spanner with your 2 inch from the
end is effectively approximately 1/2 of 9/16 + half your hand width +
2 inches. or 14" - (0.28 + 2 + 1.75) or 10" X your stated 170 lbs =
1,700 inch lbs. or something like 5 times what Shimano says.









Shimano specifies some 304 inch lbs. of torque for their pedals - see
Shimano Technical Service Instructions sheet for PD-M 959, 540, 520
pedals. (Usually comes packed with a new set of pedals).

Must be made of veined cheese.

I don't know if you have cheesy pedals but 304 "lbs is the number
Shimano mentions.

Look, if pedal spanners are that long to remove a pedal because of
self tightening, then to prevent fretting on the crank face, one must
tighten to a state which a pedal would self-tighten if otherwise
fastened to a low torque. In this way there is no relative movement
between pedal axle and crank when in use, either at the track or
climbing a 1in3 with a 54" gear on 170mm cranks.

--
John B.

Good job I don't use Shimano pedals or cranks or my life would fall
apart. What did Campagnolo and Time say back in 1989 or so? I
think it was a damn sight more than what you say Shimano are saying.
I'll admit I'm at the upper end of what is used, but this is the sort
of level used by professional bike mechanics. All the skinny guys
certainly lift their feet off the floor.

From:
http://www.parktool.com/uploads/files/blog/torque.pdf

quote
Component Shimano® Other by brand
Pedal into crank 307 minimum Campagnolo® 354
Ritchey® 307
Truvativ® 276-300
/quote

Not an authoritive source, or probably as old as you would like, but it
appears that Campy are very similar to Shimano now.

--
JS.