Is $1,200 USD a fair price for a customized Electra Amsterdam Royal 8?

He could order from two sources and pay shipping but no sales tax. On
a fred bike like that the components dont matter. Still save a couple
hundred $$$. There is no need to pay $50 for SPD type pedals as
generics are as good and very cheap. He asked if it was a deal. I
say no. Some may say yes but they are usually those who pay more at a
shop for items that can be had much cheaper on line


On Mar 3, 6:21*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 2, 11:30*pm, wrote:

You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! *Here's what ir
should cost
Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
Shimano M520 pedals- *$38.99 (Universal Cycles)
* OR
Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)

What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
components?

Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)

But that's not what Jay wants.

Or - Just as comfy less geeky
B-17 Standard *---$64
Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 *(nashbar.com)

There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
wants a particular kickstand for a reason.

Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

He needs two. You've calculated for one.

Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
overpriced parts)

Total $1014 with comparable accessories

You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
charges? And where's the sales tax?

Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?

Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
what *was required in the first instance.

Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html



On Feb 29, 8:30*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,

*"Jay" wrote:
Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago commuter
bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop. Is
this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the stock
parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).

I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so I can
wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.

Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?

I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front, because of
the weight distribution.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850

Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- $145
Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74

Subtotal -- $1240.62
25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and tires)
Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
Tax -- $102.87
Total -- $1245.84

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for any info - J.

Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.

The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
they will get for the OEM take-off parts.

I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.

I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mar 3, 6:12 pm, wrote:
He could order from two sources and pay shipping but no sales tax. On
a fred bike like that the components dont matter. Still save a couple
hundred $$$.

meet jim beam!
plonk

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, wrote:
You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
should cost
Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
OR
Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)

What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
components?

Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)

But that's not what Jay wants.

I think Andre has it about right.

I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
(including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
striping on the bike:

http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html

Or - Just as comfy less geeky
B-17 Standard ---$64
Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)

There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
wants a particular kickstand for a reason.

I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
their ilk).

Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

He needs two. You've calculated for one.

Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
overpriced parts)

Total $1014 with comparable accessories

You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
charges? And where's the sales tax?

A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
totally transparent to me.

Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?

There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.

Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
discussed.

Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
what was required in the first instance.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,

"Jay" wrote:
Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
commuter
bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
Is
this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
stock
parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).

I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
I can
wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.

Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?

I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
because of
the weight distribution.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850

Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets --
$145
Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74

Subtotal -- $1240.62
25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
tires)
Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
Tax -- $102.87
Total -- $1245.84

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for any info - J.

Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.

The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
they will get for the OEM take-off parts.

I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.

I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. A
fred bike is hard to describe. Basically those dutch style ones are
drab and have no style. People think theyre making a statemebt with
them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
transportation with nice style. A shop may be fine and I understand
buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
there is no need to pay the inflated prices
most shops charge
On Mar 3, 7:56*pm, "Jay" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...
On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, wrote:

You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
should cost
Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
OR
Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)

What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
components?

Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)

But that's not what Jay wants.

I think Andre has it about right.

I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
(including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
striping on the bike:

http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html

Or - Just as comfy less geeky
B-17 Standard ---$64
Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)

There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
wants a particular kickstand for a reason.

I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
their ilk).

Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

He needs two. You've calculated for one.

Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
overpriced parts)

Total $1014 with comparable accessories

You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
charges? And where's the sales tax?

A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
totally transparent to me.

Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?

There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.

Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
discussed.

Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
what *was required in the first instance.

Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html



On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,

"Jay" wrote:
Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
commuter
bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
Is
this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
stock
parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).

I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
I can
wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day.

Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?

I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
because of
the weight distribution.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850

Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- *
$145
Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74

Subtotal -- $1240.62
25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
tires)
Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
Tax -- $102.87
Total -- $1245.84

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for any info - J.

Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.

The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
they will get for the OEM take-off parts.

I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles.

I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

" ??? wrote:
That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . With
more searching he might have saved more. None of those items are shop
only installs and comparable items are easy to find.

Take Jay's hourly wage times what it would take him to do the parts
swaps himself, and the shop rate looks pretty good, unless Jay is an
experienced mechanic with all the tools readily at hand. There is also
the time it would take Jay to hawk the unused parts on Craigslist, eBay
et al.

Who wants a two legged kickstand?

A serious commuter.

Nashbar pedals are as good as any and there are
other tires that perform as well for less- vittoria randonneurs for
$29 at REI . Nashbar ergo gel grips are $6 and just as good as ergon.

I have found that off-brand "SPD compatible" pedals are often found to
be lacking in the compatibility department.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

" TOP POSTED:
He could order from two sources and pay shipping but no sales tax. On
a fred bike like that the components dont matter. Still save a couple
hundred $$$. There is no need to pay $50 for SPD type pedals as
generics are as good and very cheap. He asked if it was a deal. I
say no. Some may say yes but they are usually those who pay more at a
shop for items that can be had much cheaper on line

The obvious prejudice against a practical city bicycle is showing. For
Jay's needs, he would be silly to buy a "non-Fred" skinny tire road
bicycle or a true ATB.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Mar 4, 1:13*am, wrote:
It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. *A
fred bike is hard to describe. *Basically those dutch style ones are
drab and have no style. * People think theyre making a statemebt with
them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
transportation with nice style. *A shop may be fine and I understand
buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
there is no need to pay the *inflated prices

I bought both my Dutch city bikes by mail-order from two and three
countries away. One of them is almost exactly comparable to what Jay
is getting, except I didn't get a Brooks saddle, Ergon grips, special
pedals or a two-footed stand (I got some other nice custom stuff but
nowhere near that value). And here's the trick: I paid exactly what
Jay paid, and all I got that he doesn't is a prestige name.

Your taste must be off if you think Dutch city bike styles have
anything in the slightest off about them. My black Gazelle
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20Bauhaus.html
causes a lot of open envy, and my blue and silver Trek
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...%20Smover.html
gets me stopped on the roads
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...simon%201.html
at least twice a week,
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...simon%202.html
including by racers who want to inspect the Bontrager wheels.

Sounds to me like a "Fred bike" is one ridden by someone who has the
strength of mind not to become a fashion victim.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

most shops charge
On Mar 3, 7:56*pm, "Jay" wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...
On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, wrote:

You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
should cost
Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850
Shimano M520 pedals- $38.99 (Universal Cycles)
OR
Nashbar clipless ---- $17.99 (nashbar.com)

What's the point of buying a bike like this and fitting generic-****
components?

Brooks B17 Champion Flyer-- $99 (wallbike.com)

But that's not what Jay wants.

I think Andre has it about right.

I have spec'ed the following saddle, because I like the contrast of the
copper rivets against the black leather; and I think the copper color
(including the copper rails) will be a nice cosmetic match with the pin
striping on the bike:

http://www.wallbike.com/b17cscopper.html

Or - Just as comfy less geeky
B-17 Standard ---$64
Ascent kickstand--- $5.95 (nashbar.com)

There's probably a better kickstand than that on the bike already. Jay
wants a particular kickstand for a reason.

I like the Swiss-made double-leg kickstand, because I use the darn thing
several times a day. I just want it to work, in the wind. I have never seen
a single-leg kickstand which performs as well in the wind or on bad
pavement, as a double-leg kickstand. I would throw a $6 kickstand in the
trash, since it is not worth the price of shipping it back to China (or
their ilk).

Schwalbe Marathon Plus-- $38.00 (unoversal cycles)

He needs two. You've calculated for one.

Total $1070 with specc'ed accessories (with no need for "discount" for
overpriced parts)

Total $1014 with comparable accessories

You've left off the Ergon grips. And you haven't put your mind in
gear, pal. How many times is it now that Jay will have to pay carriage
charges? And where's the sales tax?

A BIG factor in my decision to have the LBS RTC handle the details, is all
the spec'ed stuff is delivered from wherever, to RTC. They handle all the
details. I just don't want to be bothered, and if that costs me a few bucks,
I will pay. If there is a screw-up, or extra charges of any sort, that is
totally transparent to me.

Install accessories yourself and save a bundle

The OP told us he doesn't like messing around with his bike. A store
that comes highly recommended by other posters, and even another
dealer, will give him free fitting of the custom parts -- and you want
him to give it up to save perhaps a handful of dollars?

There is no doubt that RTC is a first rate shop, and I have beena customer
of many Chicago (and suburbs) bike shops. They have the mechanical know-how,
and the right customer focus. That is important to me, since I expect to
bring the bike to them for repairs/maintenance.

Whether the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 is a Fred-bike, I am not qualified to
answer. Mostly because I can't find a good definition of a Fred-bike, though
I have heard the term used. I am not racing - I am commuting - already
discussed.

Calculate again, Big Jim, after you read the threads and discover
what *was required in the first instance.

Andre Jutehttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html

On Feb 29, 8:30 pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,

"Jay" wrote:
Welcome to the latest installment of 'Jay's all-weather Chicago
commuter
bike'. Here is the quote I have received from Rapid Transit Cycleshop.
Is
this a fair price? I don't think I am getting much credit for the
stock
parts I am rejecting (in favor of my spec'ed parts).

I want to use the same pedals as I am currently using on my folder, so
I can
wear the same bike shoes, whichever bike I decide to ride that day..

Is that Brooks saddle price a bit high?

I think I want to go wider tire in back, narrower tire in front,
because of
the weight distribution.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amsterdam Royal 8 -- $850

Shimano M520 clipless pedals (comes with cleats) -- $55
Brooks B17 Black Champion Flyer w/steel rails and copper rivets -- *
$145
Pletscher 2 leg kickstand (silver or black?) -- $56.88
Ergon GP1 grips Men's large -- $42
Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 35? 37? -- 2 x $45.87 = $91.74

Subtotal -- $1240.62
25% discount off swapped items (pedals, saddle, kickstand, grips and
tires)
Subtotal after discount -- $1142.97
Tax -- $102.87
Total -- $1245.84

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for any info - J.

Well, they're throwing in the labor of swapping pedals, seat, kickstand,
grips, and tires for free. That ought to figure into your equation.

The 25% discount is probably a reasonable maximum, considering how much
they will get for the OEM take-off parts.

I tend not to give most LBSen much stick for their pricing. If you are
concerned about the cost, well, more pricing information about the
Brooks B17 Champion Flyer can be found on the Web. It's more than Harris
charges, for example, but they stock and specialize in those saddles..

I guess what I'm saying is that they're not egregiously ripping you off.
Only you can decide if what they're offering is worth the price.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote in message
...
It's your money- I can think of a lot that $200 saved could buy. A
fred bike is hard to describe. Basically those dutch style ones are
drab and have no style. People think theyre making a statemebt with
them but there are many other bikes that provide trouble free
transportation with nice style. A shop may be fine and I understand
buying a bike from them if you arent comfortable buying on line but
there is no need to pay the inflated prices
most shops charge
On Mar 3, 7:56 pm, "Jay" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...
On Mar 2, 11:30 pm, wrote:

You're being hosed dude!!! Bent over and reamed raw!! Here's what ir
should cost

I think the top-poster (and snip) Internet police are hot on your trail.

J.

On Mar 4, 1:15*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
" ??? wrote:
That was a quick example in three minutes I saved him $2-300 . * With
more searching he might have saved more. *None of those items are shop
only installs and comparable items are easy to find.

Take Jay's hourly wage times what it would take him to do the parts
swaps himself, and the shop rate looks pretty good, unless Jay is an
experienced mechanic with all the tools readily at hand. There is also
the time it would take Jay to hawk the unused parts on Craigslist, eBay
et al.

There's more to it than the mere economics, Tom. Elsewhere I describe
some really minor but vastly irritating little problems of working on
Nexus-equipped bikes
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.bi...b6fe0c7?hl=en#
which disappear magically someone shows you the knack of doing the job
instantly. A good shop will certainly show Jay how these two little
jobs are done if he asks, and let him watch as they do them while the
tyres are being swapped.

Andre Jute
The devil lies in the details


* Who wants a two legged kickstand?

A serious commuter.

Nashbar pedals are as good as any and there are
other tires that perform as well for less- vittoria randonneurs for
$29 at REI . *Nashbar ergo gel grips are $6 and just as good as ergon.

I have found that off-brand "SPD compatible" pedals are often found to
be lacking in the compatibility department.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...

Andre Jute
The devil lies in the details

The devil is absolutely in the details. I don't want to be a bike-mechanic
trainee. I want to do what I do (IT administration), and I will pay a LBS a
fair price, for what they know how to do.

Who wants a two legged kickstand?

A serious commuter.

Especially in the wind, and on bad pavement. It is often convenient to have
the rear wheel off the ground, so it spins freely. Not hard to imagine those
scenarios.

J.