Park Tool Glueless Patches

David White writes:

jim beam wrote:
wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.

Whew! Let me catch my breath.

Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.

If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?

I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error in not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html


jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.

here are some facts:

1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.

2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.

3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.

given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???

"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.

jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.



I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.

In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either. Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.

So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?

On Sep 20, 9:48 am, jim beam wrote to
Jobst the Great and Mighty:

-----8snip----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability to
analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.


BINGO!!!!

On Sep 20, 12:20 pm, wrote:
David White writes:
jim beam wrote:
wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.

Whew! Let me catch my breath.

Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.

If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?

I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error in not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.

here are some facts:

1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.

2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.

3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.

given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???

"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.

jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.

I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.

In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either.

This is my experience, as well. Earlier this summer, I finally opened
a small tube of Rema cement which I purchased no later than 1996
(probably 93 or 94). It was perfectly fresh.


Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.

So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?

Henny Penny wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.

Whew! Let me catch my breath.

Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.

If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?

I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error for not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.

here are some facts:

1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.

2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.

3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.

given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???

"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.

jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.

I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.

In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either. Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.

So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?

Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup. I, for one, have experienced them on glue tubes that
lay around for a year or so, mine and those of others who discovered
on piercing the metal membrane under the cap that there was no glue in
the tube other than a small amount of dry rubber on the inner walls.
This was independent of brand of glue except that they were in crimped
tubes.

Jobst Brandt

wrote:
Henny Penny wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.

Whew! Let me catch my breath.

Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.

If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?

I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error for not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.

here are some facts:

1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.

2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.

3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.

given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???

"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.

jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.

I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.

In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either. Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.

So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?

Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup. I, for one, have experienced them on glue tubes that
lay around for a year or so, mine and those of others who discovered
on piercing the metal membrane under the cap that there was no glue in
the tube other than a small amount of dry rubber on the inner walls.
This was independent of brand of glue except that they were in crimped
tubes.

independent of brand, bit NOT independent of rattling about in your
saddle bag picking up pinpoint punctures of the tube. why don't you get
some glasses? then you won't make dumb-ass and derogatory statements
about perfectly competent manufacturers who know what they're doing.

On 9/20/2008 3:59 PM wrote:

Henny Penny wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.

Whew! Let me catch my breath.

Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.

If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?

I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error for not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.

here are some facts:

1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.

2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.

3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.

given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???

"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.

jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.

I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.

In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either. Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.

So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?

Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup. I, for one, have experienced them on glue tubes that
lay around for a year or so, mine and those of others who discovered
on piercing the metal membrane under the cap that there was no glue in
the tube other than a small amount of dry rubber on the inner walls.
This was independent of brand of glue except that they were in crimped
tubes.

Jobst Brandt

I reckon that 100% reliability in patch kits is unlikely to be achieved.
They're not used for life support, after all.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

wrote:

Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup. I, for one, have experienced them on glue tubes that
lay around for a year or so, mine and those of others who discovered
on piercing the metal membrane under the cap that there was no glue in
the tube other than a small amount of dry rubber on the inner walls.
This was independent of brand of glue except that they were in crimped
tubes.

Jobst Brandt

I've had similar experiences.

In article ,
wrote:

Henny Penny wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.

Whew! Let me catch my breath.

Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.

If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?

I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error for not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.

here are some facts:

1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.

2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.

3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.

given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???

"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.

jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.

I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.

In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either. Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.

So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?

Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup. I, for one, have experienced them on glue tubes that
lay around for a year or so, mine and those of others who discovered
on piercing the metal membrane under the cap that there was no glue in
the tube other than a small amount of dry rubber on the inner walls.
This was independent of brand of glue except that they were in crimped
tubes.

Solution is to open the tube at the point of sale.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

Henny Penny wrote:

Went by a local shop today to pick up a new kit, since the cement
in mine was done for. All they had was a huge kit (size of an
altoids tin) and a very small Park Tool glueless setup. I told the
shop owner I wasn't fond of the glueless thing, since I'd heard of
so many poor experiences with them. He told me that the earlier
ones had some issues, and the cheap (aka Bell) ones were not so
hot, but the newer Park patches worked pretty good - he had not had
any complaints or problems. Anyone have any input on this? I
figure it's better than nothing, and it's really small, which is
good, but I'm wondering if I should trust the things or consider it
a temporary holdover until I get by a better stocked shop (planning
to send my bike in for the break-in tuneup before too long anyway)
where I can pick up a small kit that includes the vulcanizing
solution. I considered just buying the solution separately, but
I'm not sure how old the patches themselves are, and the solution
would cost 75% what a new small kit would cost. I also considered
super-glue as an adhesive, but read a few reviews that it dried too
hard and and as a result didn't hold well if allowed to fully cure
to the tube before the tube formed to the tire, and ran the risk of
adhering to the tire if installed too soon. Any experience/input
appreciated.
Whew! Let me catch my breath.
Glueless patches are better than nothing, I used to carry them, but
no longer do as they're not as good as cemented patches. My first
line of defense is spare tubes, second is glued patches. If you
take a bit of care with both, I don't see a need for a third line of
defense. Of course they take up no room, so there's no harm in
them, I just gave them up after never having a need for several
years.
If you can manually pull the patch off, then it isn't reliable, and
that's what glueless patches are. Just consider why we have these
patches at all. It is because glue tube manufacturers make leaky
crimps on the bottom of the tube. You wouldn't try to hold air
pressure with a crimp seal, so why do it with other vapors?
I am amazed how these folks stay in business while offering a reliably
faulty product. That is to say, they are not aware of the cause of
dried glue tubes but never question their product. They seem to pass
it off on user error for not securing the cap properly, never trying it
themselves how unopened tubes are dry.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html

jobst, your relentless self-promotion is sick. and your inability
to analyze a problem but still mouth off and extrapolate minutiae of
almost-fact into giant edifice of fantasy just spectacular.
here are some facts:
1. rubber cement [rema] uses trichloroetheylene as it solvent.
2. since #1. is highly volatile and can diffuse through other
polymers, its best container is metal.
3. metal crimps are most effective seals - vis their use in cans for
over a century.
given that rema are using the best kind of container, and an
effective sealing method for that kind of container, and given that
the tube of cement you buy is still liquid unsealed when you take it
home from the shop, even though it's been sitting on the shelf for a
while, or the shelf in ones garage for years, what do /you/ think is
the most likely exit point from that container, once the end cap
seal is broken and a plastic cap is screwed on???
"unopened dry"??? in all my decades of cycling and patching tubes,
i've never had an "unopened" tube be dry. not unless it's been
rattling around in the box under my saddle and has worn through at
some pinpoint. and thus we would have typical jobstian
failure-to-observe-the-facts-and-blame-someone-else-for-your-own-failings,
as per usual.
jobst, i don't understand what you personally get out of these kinds
of postings, but they poison the real-world knowledge pool with
untruths and bull****, and unjustly damage the reputations of
perfectly competent manufacturers, entirely without reason.
seriously, if i were one that you'd slandered in this way, i'd sue
your dumb ass just to bankrupt you and shut you up. seriously, it's
not being dumb that's the problem with you - it's your compulsion
for broadcasting it.
I for one have certainly have had unopened tubes turn out to be
dry. Not the big ones but the little ones.
In over thirty years of using a bicycle as my main form of travel this
has never happened to me either. Sounds more like you had a hole in the
tube or something. having said that I would always replace my PR kit
every few years anyway to be sure to be sure.
So, you mention "tubes" - plural. How many? Were they the same kind? The
same batch?
Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup. I, for one, have experienced them on glue tubes that
lay around for a year or so, mine and those of others who discovered
on piercing the metal membrane under the cap that there was no glue in
the tube other than a small amount of dry rubber on the inner walls.
This was independent of brand of glue except that they were in crimped
tubes.

Solution is to open the tube at the point of sale.


no, that /ensures/ the tube will dry quickly. [why else would tubes be
sealed in the first place???] if you want to do something at point of
sale, squeeze the tube gently. if it collapses, it's dried. or if you
want to be yet more sophisticated, weigh it.

On 2008-09-20, wrote:
[...]
Maybe we need a survey to show how widespread dried out unopened tubes
of bicycle tire rubber cement have occurred with bicyclists who read
this newsgroup.

I've never known an unopened one to dry out.