Basso Loto

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
: On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
: My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
: have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
: it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
: and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
: have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.
:
: Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
: expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
: was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
: and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
: "transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
: hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
: Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
: finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
: cleaner.
:
: These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
: to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
: had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
: I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.
:
: After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
: Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
: learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
: light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
: bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
: re-installed.
:
: I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
: wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
: three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
: could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.
:
:
: Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
: the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
: scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
: Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
: the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
: but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
: stolen.
:
: The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
: Imperial Stout or something similar.
:
:
: So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
: are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
: That is really girlisch...
:
:
: No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
: mountain bikers on similar trails get.

:... effectively earning many cents per hour of cleaning time, I'll bet!

: I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: cosmetic difference.

:I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
:chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

:The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.

You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
Checking the oil does.


--
sig 106

On 2019-11-05 10:40, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
: On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
: My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
: have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
: it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
: and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
: have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.
:
: Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
: expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
: was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
: and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
: "transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
: hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
: Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
: finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
: cleaner.
:
: These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
: to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
: had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
: I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.
:
: After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
: Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
: learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
: light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
: bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
: re-installed.
:
: I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
: wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
: three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
: could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.
:
:
: Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
: the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
: scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
: Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
: the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
: but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
: stolen.
:
: The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
: Imperial Stout or something similar.
:
:
: So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
: are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
: That is really girlisch...
:
:
: No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
: mountain bikers on similar trails get.

:... effectively earning many cents per hour of cleaning time, I'll bet!

: I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: cosmetic difference.

:I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
:chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

:The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.

You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
Checking the oil does.


Bingo!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 11/5/2019 1:40 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

: I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: cosmetic difference.

:I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
:chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

:The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.

You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
Checking the oil does.

Here's the difference I see: Typical construction equipment (backhoe,
dozer, etc.) have large spans of steel that are very separate from the
small areas that need cleaning and lubrication. You can wipe off a
grease fitting while staying several feet away from a mud pie on a
backhoe arm. (And they still hose down the arms from time to time.)

Joerg must have to clean mud spatters off his chainrings, cogs, brakes
and derailleurs if he's going to do any lubricating. He must have to
clean mud off his bottom bracket, hubs, pedals and headset if he's going
to maintain them. Those are all inches from his storied down tube.

Would it not make sense to just hose down the entire bike, rather than
cleaning certain parts of it and carefully preserving mud on parts that
are less than a foot away?

When I did a lot of mountain biking, the hose was the primary cleaning
tool. Heck, on some tours we rode towpaths etc. on our touring bikes. I
remember using a do-it-yourself spray car wash to clean off the mud,
mid-tour. Strategically leaving certain mud on the bike makes no sense.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/5/2019 1:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2019 1:40 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

: I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or
mission-critical stuff, very
: regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components,
bearings, lights et
: cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not
is only a
: cosmetic difference.

:I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and
lubricating the
:chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while
carefully
reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

:The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to
cartoon mode.

You need to look at construction equipment. Good
operators lubricate
and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the
grease fittings
are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing
else will
have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the
mud, they just
don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
Checking the oil does.

Here's the difference I see: Typical construction equipment
(backhoe, dozer, etc.) have large spans of steel that are
very separate from the small areas that need cleaning and
lubrication. You can wipe off a grease fitting while staying
several feet away from a mud pie on a backhoe arm. (And they
still hose down the arms from time to time.)

Joerg must have to clean mud spatters off his chainrings,
cogs, brakes and derailleurs if he's going to do any
lubricating. He must have to clean mud off his bottom
bracket, hubs, pedals and headset if he's going to maintain
them. Those are all inches from his storied down tube.

Would it not make sense to just hose down the entire bike,
rather than cleaning certain parts of it and carefully
preserving mud on parts that are less than a foot away?

When I did a lot of mountain biking, the hose was the
primary cleaning tool. Heck, on some tours we rode towpaths
etc. on our touring bikes. I remember using a do-it-yourself
spray car wash to clean off the mud, mid-tour. Strategically
leaving certain mud on the bike makes no sense.


To you.
Makes no sense to me _for my own bike(s)_ either.

But from what I see of bicycles, cleanliness is by no means
a universal desire. You would be surprised. Very much
surprised.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 1:40 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
:
: : I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: : regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: : cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: : cosmetic difference.
:
: :I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
: :chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
: reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.
:
: :The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.
:
: You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
: and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
: are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
: have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
: don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
: Checking the oil does.

:Here's the difference I see: Typical construction equipment (backhoe,
:dozer, etc.) have large spans of steel that are very separate from the
:small areas that need cleaning and lubrication. You can wipe off a
:grease fitting while staying several feet away from a mud pie on a
:backhoe arm. (And they still hose down the arms from time to time.)

:Joerg must have to clean mud spatters off his chainrings, cogs, brakes
:and derailleurs if he's going to do any lubricating. He must have to
:clean mud off his bottom bracket, hubs, pedals and headset if he's going
:to maintain them. Those are all inches from his storied down tube.

:Would it not make sense to just hose down the entire bike, rather than
:cleaning certain parts of it and carefully preserving mud on parts that
:are less than a foot away?

If you have a hose, and don't mind making a muddy mess, maybe. I
dunno. I have never washed a bike I wasn't selling, but I've done a
whole **** ton of rebuilding and repairing them. Why the hell would I
do work not required?

:When I did a lot of mountain biking, the hose was the primary cleaning
:tool. Heck, on some tours we rode towpaths etc. on our touring bikes. I
:remember using a do-it-yourself spray car wash to clean off the mud,
:mid-tour. Strategically leaving certain mud on the bike makes no sense.

It's not strategic anything. It's just not doing more than necessary.

--
sig 9

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 8:35:28 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
"transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other cyclists on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out of your chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them link-by-link"?

I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may cost me 0.1% in my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential thieves
generally don't want that one. They go for another bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works Tarmac Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which gets stolen first?

-- Jay Beattie.

Do you own an MTB? Those chains take a terrible beating and I seldom got 1,000 miles on them if that much whenever there was anything even resembling a water crossing. And this was a good KMC chain. If you don't ride MTB's why the hell are you even talking about it?

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:06:20 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
"transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
mountain bikers on similar trails get.

... effectively earning many cents per hour of cleaning time, I'll bet!

I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
cosmetic difference.

I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
preserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential thieves
generally don't want that one. They go for another bike.

Sheesh. I'd just get a better lock. Or park my bike where I can keep an
eye on it.

But I know that we don't understand how terrible things are in your
area. Why, the mountain lions probably carry lock picks!


--
- Frank Krygowski

All you have left with your life is your imagination.

On 11/5/2019 3:13 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 1:40 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
:
: : I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: : regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: : cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: : cosmetic difference.
:
: :I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
: :chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
: reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.
:
: :The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.
:
: You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
: and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
: are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
: have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
: don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
: Checking the oil does.

:Here's the difference I see: Typical construction equipment (backhoe,
:dozer, etc.) have large spans of steel that are very separate from the
:small areas that need cleaning and lubrication. You can wipe off a
:grease fitting while staying several feet away from a mud pie on a
:backhoe arm. (And they still hose down the arms from time to time.)

:Joerg must have to clean mud spatters off his chainrings, cogs, brakes
:and derailleurs if he's going to do any lubricating. He must have to
:clean mud off his bottom bracket, hubs, pedals and headset if he's going
:to maintain them. Those are all inches from his storied down tube.

:Would it not make sense to just hose down the entire bike, rather than
:cleaning certain parts of it and carefully preserving mud on parts that
:are less than a foot away?

If you have a hose, and don't mind making a muddy mess, maybe. I
dunno. I have never washed a bike I wasn't selling, but I've done a
whole **** ton of rebuilding and repairing them. Why the hell would I
do work not required?

My point is, some cleaning is required. For example, you can't lube your
brakes without cleaning them. Remember Jobst pointing out that lubing
without pre-cleaning just washes grit into bearings?

It seems to me it's more work to clean only the mechanical parts and
leave the frame caked with mud.


:When I did a lot of mountain biking, the hose was the primary cleaning
:tool. Heck, on some tours we rode towpaths etc. on our touring bikes. I
:remember using a do-it-yourself spray car wash to clean off the mud,
:mid-tour. Strategically leaving certain mud on the bike makes no sense.

It's not strategic anything. It's just not doing more than necessary.

He says he does it his way to deter theft by leaving it muddy.

"Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
stolen."

Joerg can do whatever he wants to do, of course. But if he proudly
describes his behavior here, he is submitting it for discussion.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:40:55 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 11/5/2019 9:55 AM, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
: On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
: On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
: My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed to
: have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to refinish
: it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the Colnago CLX 3.0
: and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of Reynolds 853 I will
: have to test it again. In any case it will be my spare rider.
:
: Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters and
: expect them to get around to it around the end of next week. I
: was not enthused about the original colors of the Loto - Yellow
: and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it a solid
: "transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I was there. A
: hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had been planning on
: Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's transmission there
: finished in that color and the "Transparent Blue" looked a little
: cleaner.
:
: These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the like
: to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump economy. They
: had a pickup truck there they were about to put in the oven while
: I was there. It would cook to a metallic yellow.
:
: After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set of
: Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear. I
: learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use many very
: light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have the bottom
: bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that was in it
: re-installed.
:
: I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep carbon
: wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on it took me
: three days to get that thing properly centered and true when I
: could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of hours easy.
:
:
: Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides. I am
: the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots of
: scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried mud.
: Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed deep into
: the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes look disgusting
: but then again this greatly reduces the chance of them being
: stolen.
:
: The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
: Imperial Stout or something similar.
:
:
: So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh wait
: are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental brushes?
: That is really girlisch...
:
:
: No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than other
: mountain bikers on similar trails get.

:... effectively earning many cents per hour of cleaning time, I'll bet!

: I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff, very
: regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings, lights et
: cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not is only a
: cosmetic difference.

:I'm trying to imagine a guy diligently cleaning and lubricating the
:chain, sprockets, brakes, bearings, lights etc. while carefully
reserving the gobs of mud on his downtube.

:The only way that works is if I switch my imagination to cartoon mode.

You need to look at construction equipment. Good operators lubricate
and inspect the moving bits. So the areas around the grease fittings
are clean, cover fasteners are accessible, but everthing else will
have a layer of mud on it. They're not preserving the mud, they just
don't care about it, it doesn't make them money to remove it.
Checking the oil does.

And Caterpillar publishes estimated maintenance and repair costs for
several types of working conditions and working in swampy, muddy,
conditions has higher costs than working in a clean dry environment.

So yes, no one washes and waxes their Cat D-9 but they do plan on
higher maintenance costs when working in adverse conditions.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:05:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 08:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 6:55:56 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-11-05 04:21, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 10:35:51 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-10-16 09:44, Tom Kunich wrote:
My Basso Loto was one of the final steel versions. It seemed
to have a perfect ride. However, since I took it apart to
refinish it I got the Lemond and between the ride of the
Colnago CLX 3.0 and the ride of the Lemond Zurich made out of
Reynolds 853 I will have to test it again. In any case it
will be my spare rider.

Presently I have the frame and fork in the powder coaters
and expect them to get around to it around the end of next
week. I was not enthused about the original colors of the
Loto - Yellow and Blue with a red highlight. So I'm having it
a solid "transparent blue" which they had a sample of when I
was there. A hot rodder was having his rims coated. I had
been planning on Candy Apple Blue but they had a hot rodder's
transmission there finished in that color and the
"Transparent Blue" looked a little cleaner.

These guys have gone from finishing store shelves and the
like to coating entire cars for hot rodders in the Trump
economy. They had a pickup truck there they were about to put
in the oven while I was there. It would cook to a metallic
yellow.

After I pick the frame and fork up I will have to get a set
of Basso Loto decals, then coat the entire frame with clear.
I learned from the last try on the Pinarello and will use
many very light coats instead of a few heavy. And then have
the bottom bracket threads cleaned and the Campy headset that
was in it re-installed.

I just finished building a tubeless wheel up. The deep
carbon wheels are remarkably difficult to build. Off and on
it took me three days to get that thing properly centered and
true when I could build an aluminum wheel in a couple of
hours easy.


Wow, you are really going all out when it comes to your rides.
I am the exact opposite. Both my MTB and my road bike have lots
of scrapes and are generally caked in copious amounts of dried
mud. Add in a few grease streaks and some vegetation mashed
deep into the works here and there. My wife thinks the bikes
look disgusting but then again this greatly reduces the chance
of them being stolen.

The money for the decals would in my case be invested in IPA,
Imperial Stout or something similar.


So you are a really tough guy then. It makes you proud? OK...oh
wait are you not the one who cleans his chain with inter dental
brushes? That is really girlisch...


No, that's smart. It milks a lot more miles out of a chain than
other mountain bikers on similar trails get.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that? Do you stop other cyclists
on the trail and say "hey, how many miles do you get out of your
chains, and do you use dental brushes to clean them link-by-link"?


I regularly talk with other MTB riders at brewpubs. Most said they don't
even get 1000mi out of a chain.

What kind of chain are they using? 8/9/10/11 speed? What are you using? And what does flossing between the links do to clean out the pin-bushing interface? You would probably do better with conventional cleaning and lubrication.


I thoroughly clean and maintain moving or mission-critical stuff,
very regularly. Chain, sprockets, brake components, bearings,
lights et cetera. Whether the downtube has mud caked on it or not
is only a cosmetic difference. Oh yeah, and it may cost me 0.1% in
my average speed.

One major upside of a muddy-looking bike is that potential thieves
generally don't want that one. They go for another bike.

Again, how do you know that? Do you do A/B theft tests -- muddy
versus non-muddy bikes? Maybe put a muddy, unlocked S-Works Tarmac
Di2 bike next to a super-clean Huffy POS and see which gets stolen
first?


Of course I mean similar bikes. Di2 is an invitation "Steal me, steal
me!". Most thieves around here are after a quick buck to feed their drug
habits. A nice shiny name brand bike will instantly get them their $30
or whatever at the cladestine chop shop, a filthy one won't.

It's rather obvious and I had talked at length with law enforcement
experts about such things. They said the same thing about homes. A
modest abode has a lower chance of being broken into versus a manicured
mansion.

Law enforcement officers know about the relative number of muddy versus non-muddy bikes that get stolen. Incroyable. I seems to me like one would have to do A/B testing to prove that point.

-- Jay Beattie.