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Braking Technique



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 18th 03, 01:32 AM
Carl Sundquist
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)


"Zelda" wrote in message
om...
Since you compare bicycles to motorcycles, I have a different
question:

I used to ride motorcycles, and tried amateur roadracing for a couple
of years. Last year, when I bought my first-ever good quality road
bicycle, I asked the staff at the bike shop if you use countersteering
to go around fast corners on a bicycle, as you do on a motorcycle
(pushing the handlebar away from you). They didn't know what I was
talking about.

So, do you use countersteering on a road bicycle?

Thanks,
Zelda


Yes, you do.

But remember: you can't wheelie a shaft-driven bicycle.


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  #22  
Old July 18th 03, 04:31 AM
S. Anderson
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)

"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
...


Yes, you do.

But remember: you can't wheelie a shaft-driven bicycle.


Never ridden a shaft-drive bicycle..but you sure can wheelie a shaft-drive
motorcycle!! Course, most bikes with shaft drive aren't happy about being
wheelied..but if ya cane it enough.. ;-)

Cheers,

Scott..


  #23  
Old July 18th 03, 06:27 AM
Raptor
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)

An experience from looong ago might relate to this question.

I made the pilgrimmage to the 1983 Coors Classic with my bike stuffed
into the back seat of my '66 Rambler, and tent and sleeping bag in the
trunk. I was a new, enthusiast young pup of a racer from South Dakota,
which of course is a Mecca for racing. In the warmup for the women's
city park criterium, I followed a couple racers around the course on my
bike. We came to a corner. They dove right into it and I was left
thinking, how the hell did they do that, as I lost several meters before
even beginning the turn.

After that, I started practicing "diving" into a turn. I believe I
learned countersteering as a result of that experience.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  #24  
Old July 18th 03, 06:47 AM
warren
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)

In article , Raptor wrote:

An experience from looong ago might relate to this question.

I made the pilgrimmage to the 1983 Coors Classic with my bike stuffed
into the back seat of my '66 Rambler, and tent and sleeping bag in the
trunk. I was a new, enthusiast young pup of a racer from South Dakota,
which of course is a Mecca for racing. In the warmup for the women's
city park criterium, I followed a couple racers around the course on my
bike. We came to a corner. They dove right into it and I was left
thinking, how the hell did they do that, as I lost several meters before
even beginning the turn.

After that, I started practicing "diving" into a turn. I believe I
learned countersteering as a result of that experience.


Being good in turns has alot more to do with your line, willingness not
to overbrake-especially as you approach the turn, ability to finesse
your way between people going too slow, and having an attitude that
turns are the easiest place to make up ground and every turn is an
opportunity to go as fast as possible without having to pedal.

-WG
  #25  
Old July 18th 03, 08:12 AM
Sergio SERVADIO
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Default Braking Technique

Silence is often the best headline.
Jobst must still be doing his thing on the Alps.

A bit envious ...

Sergio
Pisa

  #26  
Old July 18th 03, 09:26 AM
BikeRacer
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Default Braking Technique

warren wrote:

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post. I was referring to
emergency braking on a good surface in a straight line. Armstrong was
braking in a straight line as he came past the outside of Beloki. This
section of the faq states once more that front brake only is the quickest
way to decelerate as long as you're not banked in the middle of a turn.


Then it's wrong. Think about my question again...

"Don't you think that having two tires making contact/friction with the
ground (with the brakes applied) would work better than one?"


Uh, no. Because if the rear wheel still has significant traction,
you aren't applying enough front brake. Because of the weight shift
toward the front, all the traction, and hence braking power, is there.
You can get it to the point where any braking on the rear will make
it slide.

It's true for both motorcycles and bicycles, though the motorcyclists
I know seem to have an easier time grasping this.

Oh, and to the person mentioning certain motorcyclists using the rear
brake to slide the rear end. . . I can't vouch for those particular
motorcyclists, but most don't use the rear brake to do that. Front
braking will unweight the rear so much that throttle can be used to
do that. Rear brake usually used to "trail brake" into a turn, and
take up drivetrain slack just before significant power is applied
to prevent lash.

When it comes to turning, motorcycles diverge from bicycles somewhat
because of the engine. . . there are different techniques available
because of it. Braking is largely the same though.

People always seem to bring up the ability to flip a bike over with the front
brake. Sure, that's possible, but it is exactly that power that makes it
worth using, and using well, to its full potential.

The FAQ and Sheldon are right. Go practice.
  #27  
Old July 18th 03, 11:00 AM
asqui
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)

Howard Kveck wrote:
In article , "Carl Sundquist"
wrote:



But remember: you can't wheelie a shaft-driven bicycle.



Carl, I suspect that about .0005% of the people reading this group
will have any idea where -that- one came from. Good one.


Well, I managed to find a picture on google to explain what a shaft driven
bicycle is: http://www.rustyspokes.com/images/Image5.jpg
Seems like a radical design concept, but why can't you wheelie it?

Dani


  #28  
Old July 18th 03, 12:44 PM
Lindsay
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:46:11 -0400, "S. Anderson"
wrote:

"Lindsay" wrote in message
.. .
Try it and get back to us. BTW - do you think you can produce the
same amount of torque to the real wheel of the bike while cornering
that you got on the motorcycle?

Lindsay


The tricky part is not hitting the pedal on the pavement while leaned over!!
;-) That's one of the nifty things about motorcycles versus bicycles..big,
lurid power slides going out of corners...


I grew up in upstate NY and immediately thought of the slides in the
ice racing I used to watch. Try that angle!! ;-)

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free
will and individual responsibility is the difficulty
of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And
when you do find somebody, it's remarkable how often
his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke
  #29  
Old July 18th 03, 12:46 PM
Lindsay
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Default Steering (was Braking Technique)

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:00:12 +0000 (UTC), "asqui"
wrote:

Well, I managed to find a picture on google to explain what a shaft driven
bicycle is: http://www.rustyspokes.com/images/Image5.jpg
Seems like a radical design concept, but why can't you wheelie it?


Is that titanium?

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free
will and individual responsibility is the difficulty
of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And
when you do find somebody, it's remarkable how often
his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke
  #30  
Old July 18th 03, 05:11 PM
warren
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Posts: n/a
Default Braking Technique

In article , BikeRacer
wrote:

warren wrote:

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post. I was referring to
emergency braking on a good surface in a straight line. Armstrong was
braking in a straight line as he came past the outside of Beloki. This
section of the faq states once more that front brake only is the quickest
way to decelerate as long as you're not banked in the middle of a turn.


Then it's wrong. Think about my question again...

"Don't you think that having two tires making contact/friction with the
ground (with the brakes applied) would work better than one?"


Uh, no. Because if the rear wheel still has significant traction,
you aren't applying enough front brake.


I hope I'm never behind you in a race. You are scary.

-WG
 




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