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) ATTN: eBay buyers in NW AR, SW MO, NE OK
Mike Jacoubowsk wrote:
"anti-bike shop vitriol"? My intention is to point out that it may be possible to get a low price on the hard goods *and* get competent service and advice. I think that's a good paradigm for the consumer, and a refreshing change from the world of high prices and semi- competent (or worse) service and advice. You may run a wonderful shop. But I think you well know that many shops are anything but wonderful. From the snobby, clubby atmosphere and attitude to the limited knowledge and skill in the service area, they can be a real turn-off to recreational cyclists. And then there is the matter of price. As you know, the price a smallish shop pays for parts is very close to the price a customer can buy those parts for at a place like Nashbar, AEBike, etc. The shop *has* to mark up the price to keep the doors open, I understand that. But is that the customer's problem? Why shouldn't they shop for the best price if they can competent service from someone in a "service only" business? You might ask when it does become the "customer's" problem. Is it their problem when it's no longer convenient to ride because most of the shops have closed up in their area so there's no easy way to get their bike repaired? Is it the customer's problem when you start losing trail access because the shops that used to be involved in the local scene, attending planning council meetings etc., don't exist anymore? Is it the customer's problem when cycling is seen as an almost outlaw use of the road, and dealers are no longer attending the Bicycle Summit lobbying effort in DC to reverse that trend and make the case that we're a legitimate use of the roads? The customer certainly has the right and privilege to spend their money how they wish. But there's an assumption in your post that they're foolish to do anything but seek out the lowest-possible price when, in fact, there may be reasons why it makes sense to spend a bit more and keep the local guy in business. I don't argue that many LBSs don't do a great job, but you need to be careful to not paint all of us with the same brush. I'm not even saying Chain Reaction is something that you would find worth having in your particular community. That's a job for our customers to decide. But we do, and will continue to, try and make our piece of the world a bit better place for cycling, in a way that would be difficult for an internet or mail-order company to do. You might also consider including your name, rather than appearing anonymous. Otherwise, you'll look like one more spammer on the 'net, and that will gain you neither respect nor customers. Any potential customer in my intended market area who contacts me can have all the information they need to feel comfortable doing business with me. I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet when I am only seeking a fairly local customer base. I think that fear is a bit overblown; my name has been "public" for much longer, and in a much bigger way, than most... and it has yet to cause me any grief (other than the need for a better anti-spam filter, as I get over 500+ emails/day, of which 400 or so are spam). There's no more issue, in my opinion, with a public 'net persona than there is with having a phone book listing. Trust me, if you believe you're reaching any of your local clientele here, you'll get a much better response if you include your contact information. You have little to fear and much to gain (speaking from a great many years of experience). --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h- ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com I do not know of any shop owner that takes the time and money to go t Washington to fight for cyclist rights. Do you Locally we have about 5 shops. I know all of them very well. None of them care about these things. Locally we have a huge problem MTBing. Many areas are being closed for housing developments. None f the shops care. Believe me. I started the local MTB club here and we know. It is the riders and clubs that are always dealing with these issues. Shops do not care about this. Many I see throw away these papers when riders leave. I know I work at a shop on weekends and I see this. Local issues all the time in LA county. Always clubs and individuals dealing with it. Not a single shop owner taking the time to fight for access and such. Matter of fact majority of shop owners i know stop by the store 1-5 days a month. Do not ride a bike and love to count the money they make. The struggling shops the owners work all the time and do not have the time or money to deal with issues. They much rather give clubs a 10% off on parts and look good in the community. Truth is we do not need that. How many local shops pull out $500+ to sposnor an event or race? Very few. I know because I deal with many organizers that have a hell of a time getting good money to put up events. Labor? I think many shops rip people off. At the shop I work on weekends I am forced to do this. Charge people $35 to adjust derailleurs, brakes and tighten stuff on a tune. Many times it takes 5 minutes and nothing needs to be done. Still $35. That is cheap. Another shop charges $45 and many times you have to wait days to a week to get the 5 minutes of work done. Many shops still want to make 100% margin on everything. Everyone selling cheaper they complain. I know. My friend that owns the local shop I work at on weekends does this. No wonder he never makes the big sales. Tehn complain when his FRIENDS bring in stiff from CC, Excel and such to install. They shop around. Do not blame CC or others if they do not charge so much for parts. No tot mention the many shops that have employes that do not know how to do many things. I had my share of those. And still deal with shops that do not know stuff and give customers bad information. So many employees that do not know how BB threads, how to use threading tools, hot to true or build wheels and even properly deal with the many bikes and components out there. So please do not slam this guy in Arkansas for trying to give people better prices for labor. I know he is trying to take your business but that is competition. If your rival down the street decides to lower labor rates to take your customers, do you cry? I hope not. He is simply trying to make a living like you and give people better prices. He may not go to Washington to deal with issues but I am sure you do not either and many shops do not even deal with local issues. So do not make it seem like shops are Heaven sent and they are the best. Shops are a business like any other. You just choose to have a building and deal with the customers in a smaller radius. I do however feel you when some one comes in your town and tries to take food of your plate. It is easy to bark, but do not bite. -- |
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#2
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"An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing
xavier wrote in message ...
Mike Jacoubowsk wrote: "anti-bike shop vitriol"? My intention is to point out that it may be possible to get a low price on the hard goods *and* get competent service and advice. I think that's a good paradigm for the consumer, and a refreshing change from the world of high prices and semi- competent (or worse) service and advice. You may run a wonderful shop. But I think you well know that many shops are anything but wonderful. From the snobby, clubby atmosphere and attitude to the limited knowledge and skill in the service area, they can be a real turn-off to recreational cyclists. And then there is the matter of price. As you know, the price a smallish shop pays for parts is very close to the price a customer can buy those parts for at a place like Nashbar, AEBike, etc. The shop *has* to mark up the price to keep the doors open, I understand that. But is that the customer's problem? Why shouldn't they shop for the best price if they can competent service from someone in a "service only" business? You might ask when it does become the "customer's" problem. Is it their problem when it's no longer convenient to ride because most of the shops have closed up in their area so there's no easy way to get their bike repaired? Is it the customer's problem when you start losing trail access because the shops that used to be involved in the local scene, attending planning council meetings etc., don't exist anymore? Is it the customer's problem when cycling is seen as an almost outlaw use of the road, and dealers are no longer attending the Bicycle Summit lobbying effort in DC to reverse that trend and make the case that we're a legitimate use of the roads? The customer certainly has the right and privilege to spend their money how they wish. But there's an assumption in your post that they're foolish to do anything but seek out the lowest-possible price when, in fact, there may be reasons why it makes sense to spend a bit more and keep the local guy in business. I don't argue that many LBSs don't do a great job, but you need to be careful to not paint all of us with the same brush. I'm not even saying Chain Reaction is something that you would find worth having in your particular community. That's a job for our customers to decide. But we do, and will continue to, try and make our piece of the world a bit better place for cycling, in a way that would be difficult for an internet or mail-order company to do. You might also consider including your name, rather than appearing anonymous. Otherwise, you'll look like one more spammer on the 'net, and that will gain you neither respect nor customers. Any potential customer in my intended market area who contacts me can have all the information they need to feel comfortable doing business with me. I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet when I am only seeking a fairly local customer base. I think that fear is a bit overblown; my name has been "public" for much longer, and in a much bigger way, than most... and it has yet to cause me any grief (other than the need for a better anti-spam filter, as I get over 500+ emails/day, of which 400 or so are spam). There's no more issue, in my opinion, with a public 'net persona than there is with having a phone book listing. Trust me, if you believe you're reaching any of your local clientele here, you'll get a much better response if you include your contact information. You have little to fear and much to gain (speaking from a great many years of experience). --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h- ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com I do not know of any shop owner that takes the time and money to go to Washington to fight for cyclist rights. Do you? Locally we have about 5 shops. I know all of them very well. None of them care about these things. Locally we have a huge problem MTBing. Many areas are being closed for housing developments. None f the shops care. Believe me. I started the local MTB club here and we know. It is the riders and clubs that are always dealing with these issues. Shops do not care about this. Many I see throw away these papers when riders leave. I know I work at a shop on weekends and I see this. Local issues all the time in LA county. Always clubs and individuals dealing with it. Not a single shop owner taking the time to fight for access and such. Matter of fact majority of shop owners i know stop by the store 1-5 days a month. Do not ride a bike and love to count the money they make. The struggling shops the owners work all the time and do not have the time or money to deal with issues. They much rather give clubs a 10% off on parts and look good in the community. Truth is we do not need that. How many local shops pull out $500+ to sposnor an event or race? Very few. I know because I deal with many organizers that have a hell of a time getting good money to put up events. Labor? I think many shops rip people off. At the shop I work on weekends I am forced to do this. Charge people $35 to adjust derailleurs, brakes and tighten stuff on a tune. Many times it takes 5 minutes and nothing needs to be done. Still $35. That is cheap. Another shop charges $45 and many times you have to wait days to a week to get the 5 minutes of work done. Many shops still want to make 100% margin on everything. Everyone selling cheaper they complain. I know. My friend that owns the local shop I work at on weekends does this. No wonder he never makes the big sales. Tehn complain when his FRIENDS bring in stiff from CC, Excel and such to install. They shop around. Do not blame CC or others if they do not charge so much for parts. No tot mention the many shops that have employes that do not know how to do many things. I had my share of those. And still deal with shops that do not know stuff and give customers bad information. So many employees that do not know how BB threads, how to use threading tools, hot to true or build wheels and even properly deal with the many bikes and components out there. So please do not slam this guy in Arkansas for trying to give people better prices for labor. I know he is trying to take your business but that is competition. If your rival down the street decides to lower labor rates to take your customers, do you cry? I hope not. He is simply trying to make a living like you and give people better prices. He may not go to Washington to deal with issues but I am sure you do not either and many shops do not even deal with local issues. So do not make it seem like shops are Heaven sent and they are the best. Shops are a business like any other. You just choose to have a building and deal with the customers in a smaller radius. I do however feel you when some one comes in your town and tries to take food of your plate. It is easy to bark, but do not bite. Thanks for your support and for being willing to 'come forward'. I hope there are others attempting this "new paradigm", as I think the current situation is killing, rather than nurturing, cycling. |
#3
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"An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing
sounds like those ******* bike shop owners are trying to make a half decent
living and feed their families...*******s "Ozark Bicycle Service" wrote in message om... xavier wrote in message ... Mike Jacoubowsk wrote: "anti-bike shop vitriol"? My intention is to point out that it may be possible to get a low price on the hard goods *and* get competent service and advice. I think that's a good paradigm for the consumer, and a refreshing change from the world of high prices and semi- competent (or worse) service and advice. You may run a wonderful shop. But I think you well know that many shops are anything but wonderful. From the snobby, clubby atmosphere and attitude to the limited knowledge and skill in the service area, they can be a real turn-off to recreational cyclists. And then there is the matter of price. As you know, the price a smallish shop pays for parts is very close to the price a customer can buy those parts for at a place like Nashbar, AEBike, etc. The shop *has* to mark up the price to keep the doors open, I understand that. But is that the customer's problem? Why shouldn't they shop for the best price if they can competent service from someone in a "service only" business? You might ask when it does become the "customer's" problem. Is it their problem when it's no longer convenient to ride because most of the shops have closed up in their area so there's no easy way to get their bike repaired? Is it the customer's problem when you start losing trail access because the shops that used to be involved in the local scene, attending planning council meetings etc., don't exist anymore? Is it the customer's problem when cycling is seen as an almost outlaw use of the road, and dealers are no longer attending the Bicycle Summit lobbying effort in DC to reverse that trend and make the case that we're a legitimate use of the roads? The customer certainly has the right and privilege to spend their money how they wish. But there's an assumption in your post that they're foolish to do anything but seek out the lowest-possible price when, in fact, there may be reasons why it makes sense to spend a bit more and keep the local guy in business. I don't argue that many LBSs don't do a great job, but you need to be careful to not paint all of us with the same brush. I'm not even saying Chain Reaction is something that you would find worth having in your particular community. That's a job for our customers to decide. But we do, and will continue to, try and make our piece of the world a bit better place for cycling, in a way that would be difficult for an internet or mail-order company to do. You might also consider including your name, rather than appearing anonymous. Otherwise, you'll look like one more spammer on the 'net, and that will gain you neither respect nor customers. Any potential customer in my intended market area who contacts me can have all the information they need to feel comfortable doing business with me. I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet when I am only seeking a fairly local customer base. I think that fear is a bit overblown; my name has been "public" for much longer, and in a much bigger way, than most... and it has yet to cause me any grief (other than the need for a better anti-spam filter, as I get over 500+ emails/day, of which 400 or so are spam). There's no more issue, in my opinion, with a public 'net persona than there is with having a phone book listing. Trust me, if you believe you're reaching any of your local clientele here, you'll get a much better response if you include your contact information. You have little to fear and much to gain (speaking from a great many years of experience). --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h- ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com I do not know of any shop owner that takes the time and money to go to Washington to fight for cyclist rights. Do you? Locally we have about 5 shops. I know all of them very well. None of them care about these things. Locally we have a huge problem MTBing. Many areas are being closed for housing developments. None f the shops care. Believe me. I started the local MTB club here and we know. It is the riders and clubs that are always dealing with these issues. Shops do not care about this. Many I see throw away these papers when riders leave. I know I work at a shop on weekends and I see this. Local issues all the time in LA county. Always clubs and individuals dealing with it. Not a single shop owner taking the time to fight for access and such. Matter of fact majority of shop owners i know stop by the store 1-5 days a month. Do not ride a bike and love to count the money they make. The struggling shops the owners work all the time and do not have the time or money to deal with issues. They much rather give clubs a 10% off on parts and look good in the community. Truth is we do not need that. How many local shops pull out $500+ to sposnor an event or race? Very few. I know because I deal with many organizers that have a hell of a time getting good money to put up events. Labor? I think many shops rip people off. At the shop I work on weekends I am forced to do this. Charge people $35 to adjust derailleurs, brakes and tighten stuff on a tune. Many times it takes 5 minutes and nothing needs to be done. Still $35. That is cheap. Another shop charges $45 and many times you have to wait days to a week to get the 5 minutes of work done. Many shops still want to make 100% margin on everything. Everyone selling cheaper they complain. I know. My friend that owns the local shop I work at on weekends does this. No wonder he never makes the big sales. Tehn complain when his FRIENDS bring in stiff from CC, Excel and such to install. They shop around. Do not blame CC or others if they do not charge so much for parts. No tot mention the many shops that have employes that do not know how to do many things. I had my share of those. And still deal with shops that do not know stuff and give customers bad information. So many employees that do not know how BB threads, how to use threading tools, hot to true or build wheels and even properly deal with the many bikes and components out there. So please do not slam this guy in Arkansas for trying to give people better prices for labor. I know he is trying to take your business but that is competition. If your rival down the street decides to lower labor rates to take your customers, do you cry? I hope not. He is simply trying to make a living like you and give people better prices. He may not go to Washington to deal with issues but I am sure you do not either and many shops do not even deal with local issues. So do not make it seem like shops are Heaven sent and they are the best. Shops are a business like any other. You just choose to have a building and deal with the customers in a smaller radius. I do however feel you when some one comes in your town and tries to take food of your plate. It is easy to bark, but do not bite. Thanks for your support and for being willing to 'come forward'. I hope there are others attempting this "new paradigm", as I think the current situation is killing, rather than nurturing, cycling. |
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) ATTN: eBay buyers in NW AR, SW MO, NE OK
You will always have to take %^$# from some shops. Just te nature o
business men. You are trying to make a living like them. They see it a you taking away from them and they do not like that. So they will tr and say anything to put you out of business So many shops out there do not care about customers. Believe me. worked in afew and not won a business and see all the sides. Many owner are like little kids crying So many shops love to charge people $35 for a tune up. Make them wai days. Labor that should be done for much less and take a few minutes Done in a day. So many shops want to charge full pop on everything the sel. Anyone selling cheaper they start saying they do not suppor cycling and community and such Truth is I do not know of any shop that actually takes the time t deal with local issues. It is always the riders and smaller clubs. A least that is the deal here. All the shops that make lots of mone the onwers never show up to work and they do not care about loca issues. I have had shops wanting to chrage clubs to have an employe come out to meetings to show people simple mechanics. Charge th club, never for free You will hoever find other friendly peope out there. Concentrate o those. People will always compalin when you offer their customer more. Because now they tand to loose or lower their prices and bette their service A have a good friend that has a very small shop. CVery small sales bu he is alive because of his great service and knowledge. The rival sho across town every year loves to take his accounts away and bike lines He brought up Giant among others to the area and lost it last year. H was angry at that but that is palying hardball. Now he has LItespeed an other high end and I warned him to keep up with that or he will loos that to the other shop next year. Hopefully companies see these. I simply hurts consumers So these shops cannot take aay what you sell but they can bad mouth yo and make you look bad in front of your customers Tehy do not even know you. Like me. Many love to flame my business bu truth is a few online shops out there are fighting for consumer rights We simply come out and tell you. Many do not know my cycling carrer, m travels, my knowldge. Not ot mention my involvement in the past with al the local clubs. Starting a MTB club that not only riders bt eals wit many local trail issues, the local road club, all the have to do is as and I bend over backwards. Not just a ****ty 10% off on overpriced part and see you later. They do not know how tight things are financiall here but I still sacrifice personal income to sponsor local events. No a single shop around here does half of that. So question that - |
#5
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"An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing
"DDB" wrote in message news:2cShc.196934$Pk3.10049@pd7tw1no... sounds like those ******* bike shop owners are trying to make a half decent living and feed their families...*******s I think there is definitely room for both LBS and service/repair only shops. As more and more people buy bikes online there will be more need for someone to do tunes and buildups. There are car dealers and car mechanics, right? Why not a bike mechanic shop? |
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"An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing
"Gooserider" wrote in message .com...
"DDB" wrote in message news:2cShc.196934$Pk3.10049@pd7tw1no... sounds like those ******* bike shop owners are trying to make a half decent living and feed their families...*******s I think there is definitely room for both LBS and service/repair only shops. As more and more people buy bikes online there will be more need for someone to do tunes and buildups. There are car dealers and car mechanics, right? Why not a bike mechanic shop? Yes, indeed, *why not*? Mail order, the internet and online auction sites offer cyclists viable avenues to purchasing quality goods at rock bottom prices. Why should a cyclist have to subsidize that wall of $2K+ bikes or that glass case of 'bicycle jewelery' at the LBS? The sticking point is where do cyclists go to have their parts installed or their bike properly built up and routinely serviced and maintained. A "bike mechanic shop" is exactly what is needed and exactly what I am providing in my area. http://www.ozarkbicycleservice.com |
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"An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing
This guy is very popular in my brother's area:
http://www.dirtdart.com/ Local paper did a story on him. Says he grossed six figures (with the decimal point in the right spot), and travels from Boise to Sun Valley (works on Goveror Ahnold's bikes). |
#8
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"An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing
Yes, indeed, *why not*? Mail order, the internet and online auction
sites offer cyclists viable avenues to purchasing quality goods at rock bottom prices. Why should a cyclist have to subsidize that wall of $2K+ bikes or that glass case of 'bicycle jewelery' at the LBS? The sticking point is where do cyclists go to have their parts installed or their bike properly built up and routinely serviced and maintained. A "bike mechanic shop" is exactly what is needed and exactly what I am providing in my area. http://www.ozarkbicycleservice.com Honestly, with the complexity of components rising sharply every year, the average LBS employee just cannot keep up. Sure, they'll give rebuilding that super tech rear shock a shot, but the outcome may not be as desired. Can't really blame the employees, they are usually college kids trying to make an extra few bucks. Can't really blame the shop owners since securing a long-term bike mechanic with watch smith-like skills is next to impossible. Kind of rock-and-hard place right now. The service specialist shop is a good idea, until it becomes like the auto shop business: a good one is HARD to find. |
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ATTN: Mail order/internet buyers in NW AR, SW MO, NE OK | OzarkBicycleServ | Marketplace | 2 | April 19th 04 12:16 PM |