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) ATTN: eBay buyers in NW AR, SW MO, NE OK



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 21st 04, 07:44 PM
xavier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default ) ATTN: eBay buyers in NW AR, SW MO, NE OK

Mike Jacoubowsk wrote:
"anti-bike shop vitriol"? My intention is to point out that it may be
possible to get a low price on the hard goods *and* get competent
service and advice. I think that's a good paradigm for the consumer,
and a refreshing change from the world of high prices and semi-
competent (or worse) service and advice.

You may run a wonderful shop. But I think you well know that many
shops are anything but wonderful. From the snobby, clubby atmosphere
and attitude to the limited knowledge and skill in the service area,
they can be a real turn-off to recreational cyclists.

And then there is the matter of price. As you know, the price a
smallish shop pays for parts is very close to the price a customer can
buy those parts for at a place like Nashbar, AEBike, etc. The shop
*has* to mark up the price to keep the doors open, I understand that.
But is that the customer's problem? Why shouldn't they shop for the
best price if they can competent service from someone in a "service
only" business?

You might ask when it does become the "customer's" problem. Is it their
problem when it's no longer convenient to ride because most of the shops
have closed up in their area so there's no easy way to get their bike
repaired? Is it the customer's problem when you start losing trail
access because the shops that used to be involved in the local scene,
attending planning council meetings etc., don't exist anymore? Is it the
customer's problem when cycling is seen as an almost outlaw use of the
road, and dealers are no longer attending the Bicycle Summit lobbying
effort in DC to reverse that trend and make the case that we're a
legitimate use of the roads?
The customer certainly has the right and privilege to spend their money
how they wish. But there's an assumption in your post that they're
foolish to do anything but seek out the lowest-possible price when, in
fact, there may be reasons why it makes sense to spend a bit more and
keep the local guy in business.
I don't argue that many LBSs don't do a great job, but you need to be
careful to not paint all of us with the same brush. I'm not even saying
Chain Reaction is something that you would find worth having in your
particular community. That's a job for our customers to decide. But we
do, and will continue to, try and make our piece of the world a bit
better place for cycling, in a way that would be difficult for an
internet or mail-order company to do.
You might also consider including your name, rather than appearing
anonymous.

Otherwise,
you'll look like one more spammer on the 'net, and that will gain
you neither respect nor customers.

Any potential customer in my intended market area who contacts me can
have all the information they need to feel comfortable doing business
with me. I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet when I am
only seeking a fairly local customer base.

I think that fear is a bit overblown; my name has been "public" for much
longer, and in a much bigger way, than most... and it has yet to cause
me any grief (other than the need for a better anti-spam filter, as I
get over 500+ emails/day, of which 400 or so are spam). There's no more
issue, in my opinion, with a public 'net persona than there is with
having a phone book listing.
Trust me, if you believe you're reaching any of your local clientele
here, you'll get a much better response if you include your contact
information. You have little to fear and much to gain (speaking from a
great many years of experience).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h-
ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I do not know of any shop owner that takes the time and money to go t
Washington to fight for cyclist rights. Do you

Locally we have about 5 shops. I know all of them very well. None of
them care about these things. Locally we have a huge problem MTBing.
Many areas are being closed for housing developments. None f the shops
care. Believe me. I started the local MTB club here and we know. It is
the riders and clubs that are always dealing with these issues. Shops do
not care about this. Many I see throw away these papers when riders
leave. I know I work at a shop on weekends and I see this. Local issues
all the time in LA county. Always clubs and individuals dealing with it.
Not a single shop owner taking the time to fight for access and such.
Matter of fact majority of shop owners i know stop by the store 1-5 days
a month. Do not ride a bike and love to count the money they make. The
struggling shops the owners work all the time and do not have the time
or money to deal with issues. They much rather give clubs a 10% off on
parts and look good in the community. Truth is we do not need that. How
many local shops pull out $500+ to sposnor an event or race? Very few. I
know because I deal with many organizers that have a hell of a time
getting good money to put up events.

Labor? I think many shops rip people off. At the shop I work on weekends
I am forced to do this. Charge people $35 to adjust derailleurs, brakes
and tighten stuff on a tune. Many times it takes 5 minutes and nothing
needs to be done. Still $35. That is cheap. Another shop charges $45 and
many times you have to wait days to a week to get the 5 minutes of work
done. Many shops still want to make 100% margin on everything. Everyone
selling cheaper they complain. I know. My friend that owns the local
shop I work at on weekends does this. No wonder he never makes the big
sales. Tehn complain when his FRIENDS bring in stiff from CC, Excel and
such to install. They shop around. Do not blame CC or others if they do
not charge so much for parts.

No tot mention the many shops that have employes that do not know how to
do many things. I had my share of those. And still deal with shops that
do not know stuff and give customers bad information. So many employees
that do not know how BB threads, how to use threading tools, hot to true
or build wheels and even properly deal with the many bikes and
components out there.

So please do not slam this guy in Arkansas for trying to give people
better prices for labor. I know he is trying to take your business but
that is competition. If your rival down the street decides to lower
labor rates to take your customers, do you cry? I hope not.

He is simply trying to make a living like you and give people better
prices. He may not go to Washington to deal with issues but I am sure
you do not either and many shops do not even deal with local issues.

So do not make it seem like shops are Heaven sent and they are the best.
Shops are a business like any other. You just choose to have a building
and deal with the customers in a smaller radius. I do however feel you
when some one comes in your town and tries to take food of your plate.
It is easy to bark, but do not bite.




--


Ads
  #2  
Old April 22nd 04, 04:00 AM
Ozark Bicycle Service
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing

xavier wrote in message ...
Mike Jacoubowsk wrote:
"anti-bike shop vitriol"? My intention is to point out that it may be
possible to get a low price on the hard goods *and* get competent
service and advice. I think that's a good paradigm for the consumer,
and a refreshing change from the world of high prices and semi-
competent (or worse) service and advice.

You may run a wonderful shop. But I think you well know that many
shops are anything but wonderful. From the snobby, clubby atmosphere
and attitude to the limited knowledge and skill in the service area,
they can be a real turn-off to recreational cyclists.

And then there is the matter of price. As you know, the price a
smallish shop pays for parts is very close to the price a customer can
buy those parts for at a place like Nashbar, AEBike, etc. The shop
*has* to mark up the price to keep the doors open, I understand that.
But is that the customer's problem? Why shouldn't they shop for the
best price if they can competent service from someone in a "service
only" business?

You might ask when it does become the "customer's" problem. Is it their
problem when it's no longer convenient to ride because most of the shops
have closed up in their area so there's no easy way to get their bike
repaired? Is it the customer's problem when you start losing trail
access because the shops that used to be involved in the local scene,
attending planning council meetings etc., don't exist anymore? Is it the
customer's problem when cycling is seen as an almost outlaw use of the
road, and dealers are no longer attending the Bicycle Summit lobbying
effort in DC to reverse that trend and make the case that we're a
legitimate use of the roads?
The customer certainly has the right and privilege to spend their money
how they wish. But there's an assumption in your post that they're
foolish to do anything but seek out the lowest-possible price when, in
fact, there may be reasons why it makes sense to spend a bit more and
keep the local guy in business.
I don't argue that many LBSs don't do a great job, but you need to be
careful to not paint all of us with the same brush. I'm not even saying
Chain Reaction is something that you would find worth having in your
particular community. That's a job for our customers to decide. But we
do, and will continue to, try and make our piece of the world a bit
better place for cycling, in a way that would be difficult for an
internet or mail-order company to do.
You might also consider including your name, rather than appearing
anonymous.

Otherwise,
you'll look like one more spammer on the 'net, and that will gain
you neither respect nor customers.

Any potential customer in my intended market area who contacts me can
have all the information they need to feel comfortable doing business
with me. I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet when I am
only seeking a fairly local customer base.

I think that fear is a bit overblown; my name has been "public" for much
longer, and in a much bigger way, than most... and it has yet to cause
me any grief (other than the need for a better anti-spam filter, as I
get over 500+ emails/day, of which 400 or so are spam). There's no more
issue, in my opinion, with a public 'net persona than there is with
having a phone book listing.
Trust me, if you believe you're reaching any of your local clientele
here, you'll get a much better response if you include your contact
information. You have little to fear and much to gain (speaking from a
great many years of experience).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h-
ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I do not know of any shop owner that takes the time and money to go to
Washington to fight for cyclist rights. Do you?

Locally we have about 5 shops. I know all of them very well. None of
them care about these things. Locally we have a huge problem MTBing.
Many areas are being closed for housing developments. None f the shops
care. Believe me. I started the local MTB club here and we know. It is
the riders and clubs that are always dealing with these issues. Shops do
not care about this. Many I see throw away these papers when riders
leave. I know I work at a shop on weekends and I see this. Local issues
all the time in LA county. Always clubs and individuals dealing with it.
Not a single shop owner taking the time to fight for access and such.
Matter of fact majority of shop owners i know stop by the store 1-5 days
a month. Do not ride a bike and love to count the money they make. The
struggling shops the owners work all the time and do not have the time
or money to deal with issues. They much rather give clubs a 10% off on
parts and look good in the community. Truth is we do not need that. How
many local shops pull out $500+ to sposnor an event or race? Very few. I
know because I deal with many organizers that have a hell of a time
getting good money to put up events.

Labor? I think many shops rip people off. At the shop I work on weekends
I am forced to do this. Charge people $35 to adjust derailleurs, brakes
and tighten stuff on a tune. Many times it takes 5 minutes and nothing
needs to be done. Still $35. That is cheap. Another shop charges $45 and
many times you have to wait days to a week to get the 5 minutes of work
done. Many shops still want to make 100% margin on everything. Everyone
selling cheaper they complain. I know. My friend that owns the local
shop I work at on weekends does this. No wonder he never makes the big
sales. Tehn complain when his FRIENDS bring in stiff from CC, Excel and
such to install. They shop around. Do not blame CC or others if they do
not charge so much for parts.

No tot mention the many shops that have employes that do not know how to
do many things. I had my share of those. And still deal with shops that
do not know stuff and give customers bad information. So many employees
that do not know how BB threads, how to use threading tools, hot to true
or build wheels and even properly deal with the many bikes and
components out there.

So please do not slam this guy in Arkansas for trying to give people
better prices for labor. I know he is trying to take your business but
that is competition. If your rival down the street decides to lower
labor rates to take your customers, do you cry? I hope not.

He is simply trying to make a living like you and give people better
prices. He may not go to Washington to deal with issues but I am sure
you do not either and many shops do not even deal with local issues.

So do not make it seem like shops are Heaven sent and they are the best.
Shops are a business like any other. You just choose to have a building
and deal with the customers in a smaller radius. I do however feel you
when some one comes in your town and tries to take food of your plate.
It is easy to bark, but do not bite.

Thanks for your support and for being willing to 'come forward'.

I hope there are others attempting this "new paradigm", as I think the
current situation is killing, rather than nurturing, cycling.
  #3  
Old April 22nd 04, 05:14 PM
DDB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing

sounds like those ******* bike shop owners are trying to make a half decent
living and feed their families...*******s



"Ozark Bicycle Service" wrote in message
om...
xavier wrote in message

...
Mike Jacoubowsk wrote:
"anti-bike shop vitriol"? My intention is to point out that it may

be
possible to get a low price on the hard goods *and* get competent
service and advice. I think that's a good paradigm for the

consumer,
and a refreshing change from the world of high prices and semi-
competent (or worse) service and advice.

You may run a wonderful shop. But I think you well know that many
shops are anything but wonderful. From the snobby, clubby

atmosphere
and attitude to the limited knowledge and skill in the service

area,
they can be a real turn-off to recreational cyclists.

And then there is the matter of price. As you know, the price a
smallish shop pays for parts is very close to the price a customer

can
buy those parts for at a place like Nashbar, AEBike, etc. The shop
*has* to mark up the price to keep the doors open, I understand

that.
But is that the customer's problem? Why shouldn't they shop for

the
best price if they can competent service from someone in a

"service
only" business?
You might ask when it does become the "customer's" problem. Is it

their
problem when it's no longer convenient to ride because most of the

shops
have closed up in their area so there's no easy way to get their

bike
repaired? Is it the customer's problem when you start losing trail
access because the shops that used to be involved in the local

scene,
attending planning council meetings etc., don't exist anymore? Is it

the
customer's problem when cycling is seen as an almost outlaw use of

the
road, and dealers are no longer attending the Bicycle Summit

lobbying
effort in DC to reverse that trend and make the case that we're a
legitimate use of the roads?
The customer certainly has the right and privilege to spend their

money
how they wish. But there's an assumption in your post that they're
foolish to do anything but seek out the lowest-possible price when,

in
fact, there may be reasons why it makes sense to spend a bit more

and
keep the local guy in business.
I don't argue that many LBSs don't do a great job, but you need to

be
careful to not paint all of us with the same brush. I'm not even

saying
Chain Reaction is something that you would find worth having in your
particular community. That's a job for our customers to decide. But

we
do, and will continue to, try and make our piece of the world a bit
better place for cycling, in a way that would be difficult for an
internet or mail-order company to do.
You might also consider including your name, rather than

appearing
anonymous.

Otherwise,
you'll look like one more spammer on the 'net, and that will

gain
you neither respect nor customers.

Any potential customer in my intended market area who contacts me

can
have all the information they need to feel comfortable doing

business
with me. I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet when

I am
only seeking a fairly local customer base.
I think that fear is a bit overblown; my name has been "public" for

much
longer, and in a much bigger way, than most... and it has yet to

cause
me any grief (other than the need for a better anti-spam filter, as

I
get over 500+ emails/day, of which 400 or so are spam). There's no

more
issue, in my opinion, with a public 'net persona than there is with
having a phone book listing.
Trust me, if you believe you're reaching any of your local clientele
here, you'll get a much better response if you include your contact
information. You have little to fear and much to gain (speaking from

a
great many years of experience).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles

http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/h-
ttp://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


I do not know of any shop owner that takes the time and money to go to
Washington to fight for cyclist rights. Do you?

Locally we have about 5 shops. I know all of them very well. None of
them care about these things. Locally we have a huge problem MTBing.
Many areas are being closed for housing developments. None f the shops
care. Believe me. I started the local MTB club here and we know. It is
the riders and clubs that are always dealing with these issues. Shops do
not care about this. Many I see throw away these papers when riders
leave. I know I work at a shop on weekends and I see this. Local issues
all the time in LA county. Always clubs and individuals dealing with it.
Not a single shop owner taking the time to fight for access and such.
Matter of fact majority of shop owners i know stop by the store 1-5 days
a month. Do not ride a bike and love to count the money they make. The
struggling shops the owners work all the time and do not have the time
or money to deal with issues. They much rather give clubs a 10% off on
parts and look good in the community. Truth is we do not need that. How
many local shops pull out $500+ to sposnor an event or race? Very few. I
know because I deal with many organizers that have a hell of a time
getting good money to put up events.

Labor? I think many shops rip people off. At the shop I work on weekends
I am forced to do this. Charge people $35 to adjust derailleurs, brakes
and tighten stuff on a tune. Many times it takes 5 minutes and nothing
needs to be done. Still $35. That is cheap. Another shop charges $45 and
many times you have to wait days to a week to get the 5 minutes of work
done. Many shops still want to make 100% margin on everything. Everyone
selling cheaper they complain. I know. My friend that owns the local
shop I work at on weekends does this. No wonder he never makes the big
sales. Tehn complain when his FRIENDS bring in stiff from CC, Excel and
such to install. They shop around. Do not blame CC or others if they do
not charge so much for parts.

No tot mention the many shops that have employes that do not know how to
do many things. I had my share of those. And still deal with shops that
do not know stuff and give customers bad information. So many employees
that do not know how BB threads, how to use threading tools, hot to true
or build wheels and even properly deal with the many bikes and
components out there.

So please do not slam this guy in Arkansas for trying to give people
better prices for labor. I know he is trying to take your business but
that is competition. If your rival down the street decides to lower
labor rates to take your customers, do you cry? I hope not.

He is simply trying to make a living like you and give people better
prices. He may not go to Washington to deal with issues but I am sure
you do not either and many shops do not even deal with local issues.

So do not make it seem like shops are Heaven sent and they are the best.
Shops are a business like any other. You just choose to have a building
and deal with the customers in a smaller radius. I do however feel you
when some one comes in your town and tries to take food of your plate.
It is easy to bark, but do not bite.

Thanks for your support and for being willing to 'come forward'.

I hope there are others attempting this "new paradigm", as I think the
current situation is killing, rather than nurturing, cycling.



  #4  
Old April 22nd 04, 06:00 PM
xavier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default ) ATTN: eBay buyers in NW AR, SW MO, NE OK

You will always have to take %^$# from some shops. Just te nature o
business men. You are trying to make a living like them. They see it a
you taking away from them and they do not like that. So they will tr
and say anything to put you out of business

So many shops out there do not care about customers. Believe me.
worked in afew and not won a business and see all the sides. Many owner
are like little kids crying

So many shops love to charge people $35 for a tune up. Make them wai
days. Labor that should be done for much less and take a few minutes
Done in a day. So many shops want to charge full pop on everything the
sel. Anyone selling cheaper they start saying they do not suppor
cycling and community and such

Truth is I do not know of any shop that actually takes the time t
deal with local issues. It is always the riders and smaller clubs. A
least that is the deal here. All the shops that make lots of mone
the onwers never show up to work and they do not care about loca
issues. I have had shops wanting to chrage clubs to have an employe
come out to meetings to show people simple mechanics. Charge th
club, never for free

You will hoever find other friendly peope out there. Concentrate o
those. People will always compalin when you offer their customer
more. Because now they tand to loose or lower their prices and bette
their service

A have a good friend that has a very small shop. CVery small sales bu
he is alive because of his great service and knowledge. The rival sho
across town every year loves to take his accounts away and bike lines
He brought up Giant among others to the area and lost it last year. H
was angry at that but that is palying hardball. Now he has LItespeed an
other high end and I warned him to keep up with that or he will loos
that to the other shop next year. Hopefully companies see these. I
simply hurts consumers

So these shops cannot take aay what you sell but they can bad mouth yo
and make you look bad in front of your customers

Tehy do not even know you. Like me. Many love to flame my business bu
truth is a few online shops out there are fighting for consumer rights
We simply come out and tell you. Many do not know my cycling carrer, m
travels, my knowldge. Not ot mention my involvement in the past with al
the local clubs. Starting a MTB club that not only riders bt eals wit
many local trail issues, the local road club, all the have to do is as
and I bend over backwards. Not just a ****ty 10% off on overpriced part
and see you later. They do not know how tight things are financiall
here but I still sacrifice personal income to sponsor local events. No
a single shop around here does half of that. So question that


-


  #5  
Old April 24th 04, 01:20 PM
Gooserider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing


"DDB" wrote in message
news:2cShc.196934$Pk3.10049@pd7tw1no...
sounds like those ******* bike shop owners are trying to make a half

decent
living and feed their families...*******s


I think there is definitely room for both LBS and service/repair only shops.
As more and more people buy bikes online there will be more need for someone
to do tunes and buildups. There are car dealers and car mechanics, right?
Why not a bike mechanic shop?


  #6  
Old April 25th 04, 03:51 AM
Ozark Bicycle Service
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing

"Gooserider" wrote in message .com...
"DDB" wrote in message
news:2cShc.196934$Pk3.10049@pd7tw1no...
sounds like those ******* bike shop owners are trying to make a half

decent
living and feed their families...*******s


I think there is definitely room for both LBS and service/repair only shops.
As more and more people buy bikes online there will be more need for someone
to do tunes and buildups. There are car dealers and car mechanics, right?
Why not a bike mechanic shop?


Yes, indeed, *why not*? Mail order, the internet and online auction
sites offer cyclists viable avenues to purchasing quality goods at
rock bottom prices. Why should a cyclist have to subsidize that wall
of $2K+ bikes or that glass case of 'bicycle jewelery' at the LBS? The
sticking point is where do cyclists go to have their parts installed
or their bike properly built up and routinely serviced and maintained.
A "bike mechanic shop" is exactly what is needed and exactly what I am
providing in my area.

http://www.ozarkbicycleservice.com
  #7  
Old April 26th 04, 03:40 PM
bike writer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing

This guy is very popular in my brother's area:

http://www.dirtdart.com/

Local paper did a story on him. Says he grossed six figures (with the
decimal point in the right spot), and travels from Boise to Sun Valley
(works on Goveror Ahnold's bikes).
  #8  
Old April 26th 04, 08:30 PM
C.E.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "An Insider" on bike shop practices and pricing

Yes, indeed, *why not*? Mail order, the internet and online auction
sites offer cyclists viable avenues to purchasing quality goods at
rock bottom prices. Why should a cyclist have to subsidize that wall
of $2K+ bikes or that glass case of 'bicycle jewelery' at the LBS? The
sticking point is where do cyclists go to have their parts installed
or their bike properly built up and routinely serviced and maintained.
A "bike mechanic shop" is exactly what is needed and exactly what I am
providing in my area.

http://www.ozarkbicycleservice.com


Honestly, with the complexity of components rising sharply every year,
the average LBS employee just cannot keep up. Sure, they'll give
rebuilding that super tech rear shock a shot, but the outcome may not
be as desired. Can't really blame the employees, they are usually
college kids trying to make an extra few bucks. Can't really blame
the shop owners since securing a long-term bike mechanic with watch
smith-like skills is next to impossible.

Kind of rock-and-hard place right now. The service specialist shop is
a good idea, until it becomes like the auto shop business: a good one
is HARD to find.
 




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