Its one of those pavement killers again!

On 03/01/2010 09:36, wrote:
On 3 Jan, 09:24, Johannes wrote:
Doug wrote:


OK Dough go ahead, I challenge you to find more links on news.bbc.co.uk where
a pedestrian walking on pavement is killed by a car.- Hide quoted text -

One person knocked down, but two people killed here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8055178.stm

There is a subtle, and moral, difference though. In incidents involving
cycling on the footway they tend to be there by deliberately and
regardless of the law. For incidents involving motoring on the footway
they tend to be there involuntarily, following some other incident or
catastrophe.

Do we have any examples of pavement casualties resulting from motor
vehicles being _deliberately_ driven on the pavement?

Official figures show that for 2008, 9 fatal accidents had "vehicle
travelling along pavement" as a contributory factor. It doesn't say
what types of vehicle they were though.

--
Matt B

On 3 Jan, 10:11, johannes wrote:
" wrote:

On 3 Jan, 09:52, johannes wrote:
" wrote:

On 3 Jan, 09:24, Johannes Andersen wrote:
Doug wrote:

OK Dough go ahead, I challenge you to find more links on news.bbc.co.uk where
a pedestrian walking on pavement is killed by a car.- Hide quoted text -

One person knocked down, but two people killed here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8055178.stm

But one incident.

Does the fact that say 20 people being mown down at a bus stop in a
"single incident" make it less of a tragedy than two pedestrians being
killed by two different cars?

No, all RTA are terrible tragedies. People should understand that their
one-upmanship games on the road are not worth it.

Car drivers are well educated by passing a driving test, but this is not
required for cyclists. Hence car drivers have generally a better
understanding of traffic.

Not always the case. I pointed out in another thread in urc that I
obtained a full motorcycle licence with no lessons whatsoever and
obtained a full car licence by having no driving school lessons
either. In contrast, I underwent 3 cycling proficiency tests
(including HC tests) by trained personnel, so if anything I had far
more intensive training for riding a bicycle on the roads than for
either a m/c or car.

By the way, I had 50, 000 miles of motorcycle road experience before I
even got behind the wheel of car. I can assure you, my "understanding
of traffic" far exceeded some 17 year old herbert with a few lessons
under his belt who passes his test first time.

--
Simon Mason

On 3 Jan, 10:18, Matt B wrote:
On 03/01/2010 09:36, wrote:

On 3 Jan, 09:24, Johannes *wrote:
Doug wrote:

OK Dough go ahead, I challenge you to find more links on news.bbc.co.uk where
a pedestrian walking on pavement is killed by a car.- Hide quoted text -

One person knocked down, but two people killed here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8055178.stm

There is a subtle, and moral, difference though. *In incidents involving
cycling on the footway they tend to be there by deliberately and
regardless of the law. *For incidents involving motoring on the footway
they tend to be there involuntarily, following some other incident or
catastrophe.

Do we have any examples of pavement casualties resulting from motor
vehicles being _deliberately_ driven on the pavement?

Does that include drivers who were going too fast or were drunk?
Or does their being on a pavement count as being there
"involuntarily"?

In fact, name me some examples of how a driver can mount a pavement
that is either a) not deliberate or b) not due to driver error such as
going too fast for the conditions or being drunk?
--
Simon Mason

--
Simon Mason

wrote:
On 3 Jan, 10:18, Matt B wrote:
On 03/01/2010 09:36, wrote:

On 3 Jan, 09:24, Johannes wrote:
Doug wrote:

OK Dough go ahead, I challenge you to find more links on
news.bbc.co.uk where a pedestrian walking on pavement is killed by
a car.- Hide quoted text -

One person knocked down, but two people killed here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8055178.stm

There is a subtle, and moral, difference though. In incidents
involving cycling on the footway they tend to be there by
deliberately and regardless of the law. For incidents involving
motoring on the footway they tend to be there involuntarily,
following some other incident or catastrophe.

Do we have any examples of pavement casualties resulting from motor
vehicles being _deliberately_ driven on the pavement?

Does that include drivers who were going too fast or were drunk?
Or does their being on a pavement count as being there
"involuntarily"?

In fact, name me some examples of how a driver can mount a pavement
that is either a) not deliberate or b) not due to driver error such as
going too fast for the conditions or being drunk?
--
Simon Mason

what about when the driver swerves to avoid a cyclist that has just gone
straight through a red light?

On 3 Jan, 10:58, "Mrcheerful" wrote:
wrote:
On 3 Jan, 10:18, Matt B wrote:
On 03/01/2010 09:36, wrote:

On 3 Jan, 09:24, Johannes wrote:
Doug wrote:

OK Dough go ahead, I challenge you to find more links on
news.bbc.co.uk where a pedestrian walking on pavement is killed by
a car.- Hide quoted text -

One person knocked down, but two people killed here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8055178.stm

There is a subtle, and moral, difference though. In incidents
involving cycling on the footway they tend to be there by
deliberately and regardless of the law. For incidents involving
motoring on the footway they tend to be there involuntarily,
following some other incident or catastrophe.

Do we have any examples of pavement casualties resulting from motor
vehicles being _deliberately_ driven on the pavement?

Does that include drivers who were going too fast or were drunk?
Or does their being on a pavement count as being there
"involuntarily"?

In fact, name me some examples of how a driver can mount a pavement
that is either a) not deliberate or b) not due to driver error such as
going too fast for the conditions or being drunk?
--
Simon Mason

what about when the driver swerves to avoid a cyclist that has just gone
straight through a red light?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm sure had such an incident ever occured, it would have been milked
for all it's worth in all sorts of places, notably on the front page
of the Daily Express, followed by a £1 a minute poll titled "is it now
time to clamp down on all cyclists?" It would then be cited for years
to come.

--
Simon Mason

wrote:
On 2 Jan, 19:32, johannes wrote:

Something for you to look at Doug:

I'll look at them as well.


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4266676.stm 2005! PED KILLED IN THE ROAD
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/7569632.stm PED BROKEN LEG
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/6727469.stm 2007 BROKEN HIP
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7662899.stm PED SLIGHTLY HURT IN THE ROAD
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7460594.stm GIRL INJURED BY BMX BOY AGE 15
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4675630.stm 2006 PED BROKEN WRIST
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4547926.stm 2005 PED FRACTURED HIP + LEG
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7465127.stm *SAME* INCIDENT AS NUMBER 5 ABOVE (STRUGGING NOW?)
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7459237.stm 5 YEAR OLD GIRL INJURED
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7532463.stm PED KNOCKED OVER - NO INJURY
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/3647594.stm- Hide quoted text - PED "HURT AND SHAKEN".


1 death in last 5 years and a few injuries? Is that the best you can
do?

One death and a few injuries to pedestrians (among the limted selection
squoted above)...

....nothing to worry about at all, is it?

After all, what do pedestrian scum mean to a footway cyclist? They asked for
it buy getting in the way, didn't they?

Far more deaths and injuries just in this current cold snap!

And of course, that makes anything cyclists do to pedestrians (on footways,
especially) completely legitimate, doesn't it?

As long as it isn't done to anyone you know, at least.

Doug wrote:
On 3 Jan, 08:28, " wrote:
On 2 Jan, 19:32, johannes wrote:



Something for you to look at Doug:
I'll look at them as well.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4266676.stm 2005! PED KILLED IN THE ROAD
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/7569632.stm PED BROKEN LEG
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/6727469.stm 2007 BROKEN HIP
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7662899.stm PED SLIGHTLY HURT IN THE ROAD
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7460594.stm GIRL INJURED BY BMX BOY AGE 15
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4675630.stm 2006 PED BROKEN WRIST
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4547926.stm 2005 PED FRACTURED HIP + LEG
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/7465127.stm *SAME* INCIDENT AS NUMBER 5 ABOVE (STRUGGING NOW?)
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/7459237.stm 5 YEAR OLD GIRL INJURED
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7532463.stm PED KNOCKED OVER - NO INJURY
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/3647594.stm- Hide quoted text - PED "HURT AND SHAKEN".
1 death in last 5 years and a few injuries? Is that the best you can
do?

Far more deaths and injuries just in this current cold snap!
--
I looked at just one of those cherry picks and deduced the rest. Then
I wondered how many screens would be filled by their killer motorists
equivalent.

Why?

And why does it matter?

Or perhaps whould we not bother enforcing the law forbidding murder because
worse things happened during WW2?

wrote:
On 3 Jan, 09:52, johannes wrote:
" wrote:

On 3 Jan, 09:24, Johannes Andersen wrote:
Doug wrote:
OK Dough go ahead, I challenge you to find more links on news.bbc.co.uk where
a pedestrian walking on pavement is killed by a car.- Hide quoted text -
One person knocked down, but two people killed here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8055178.stm
But one incident.

Does the fact that say 20 people being mown down at a bus stop in a
"single incident" make it less of a tragedy than two pedestrians being
killed by two different cars?

No, of course not.

The only people whose deaths or wellbeing really don't matter (it seems) are
pedestrians killed or injured by cycliusts.

wrote:

I pointed out in another thread in urc that I
obtained a full motorcycle licence with no lessons whatsoever and
obtained a full car licence by having no driving school lessons
either.

That was incorrect.

One cannot learn to drive (including proper control of the vehicle as well as
the Highway Code, road-lore and road-law) by instinct.

The most you can mean is that you didn't pay for your lessons.

In contrast, I underwent 3 cycling proficiency tests
(including HC tests) by trained personnel, so if anything I had far
more intensive training for riding a bicycle on the roads than for
either a m/c or car.

Hmmm...

I wonder whether you had to pay for that.

Perhaps there's a pattern visible there.

"Mrcheerful" wrote

what about when the driver swerves to avoid a cyclist that has just gone
straight through a red light?

.... or what about a driver forced to swerve by a re-materialising Tardis?