Shimano Nexus rear hub

On 12/17/2015 11:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:10:41 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:46:29 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

For what might be called "low intensity" riding my Shimano Nexus 8 red band has
worked just fine.

Both of mine worked fine for high intensity riding on bad roads too, especially the fully automatic Di2 one shown at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
They just didn't last too long.

Andre Jute

Gads, what happens if you get a rear flat? It looks like a 30 minute wheel change.

You patch the tube without removing the tire.

I have one bike with a Nexus hub and it's a lot less complicated than on
Andre's bike, but even on that one I would try to avoid removing the wheel.

You also take steps to minimize the chances of a flat tire.

On 12/17/2015 1:16 PM, sms wrote:
On 12/17/2015 11:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:10:41 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:46:29 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

For what might be called "low intensity" riding my Shimano Nexus 8
red band has
worked just fine.

Both of mine worked fine for high intensity riding on bad roads too,
especially the fully automatic Di2 one shown at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
They just didn't last too long.

Andre Jute

Gads, what happens if you get a rear flat? It looks like a 30 minute
wheel change.

You patch the tube without removing the tire.

I mean you patch the tube without removing the wheel.

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 7:52:10 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:10:41 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:46:29 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

For what might be called "low intensity" riding my Shimano Nexus 8 red band has
worked just fine.

Both of mine worked fine for high intensity riding on bad roads too, especially the fully automatic Di2 one shown at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
They just didn't last too long.

Andre Jute

Gads, what happens if you get a rear flat? It looks like a 30 minute wheel change.

-- Jay Beattie.

You don't get a flat if you ride on appropriate tyres for that sort of bike, which are Schwalbe Marathon Plus or the Stateside equivalent which came on the bike, Bontrager Hardcase Elite, because Trek owns Bontrager.

But it isn't as bad as you think. The the part of the chaincase you need to remove to unhook the sprocket from the chain just clips up, so you squeeze it right and it comes right off. The hitch is the two axle nuts (which no rider of that sort of bike in his right mind will replace with wing nuts) for which of course you don't carry a spanner (American: wrench) because you don't take the lamps or the bell or the speedo with you when you park the bike, you just leave it all on, and leaving a spanner in the toolbox for a thief to use is dumb.

So, generally, if you really have to fix a flat on the road, very, very rarely, you do it with the wheel on the bike.

Andre Jute

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 1:46:44 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 7:52:10 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:10:41 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:46:29 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

For what might be called "low intensity" riding my Shimano Nexus 8 red band has
worked just fine.

Both of mine worked fine for high intensity riding on bad roads too, especially the fully automatic Di2 one shown at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
They just didn't last too long.

Andre Jute

Gads, what happens if you get a rear flat? It looks like a 30 minute wheel change.

-- Jay Beattie.

You don't get a flat if you ride on appropriate tyres for that sort of bike, which are Schwalbe Marathon Plus or the Stateside equivalent which came on the bike, Bontrager Hardcase Elite, because Trek owns Bontrager.

But it isn't as bad as you think. The the part of the chaincase you need to remove to unhook the sprocket from the chain just clips up, so you squeeze it right and it comes right off. The hitch is the two axle nuts (which no rider of that sort of bike in his right mind will replace with wing nuts) for which of course you don't carry a spanner (American: wrench) because you don't take the lamps or the bell or the speedo with you when you park the bike, you just leave it all on, and leaving a spanner in the toolbox for a thief to use is dumb.

So, generally, if you really have to fix a flat on the road, very, very rarely, you do it with the wheel on the bike.

Andre Jute

But, we learned recently that you are not to use a patched tube right away, you are to use the on in your kit, and replaced it with the newly patched one.

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 8:28:36 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/17/2015 2:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:


There's no single answer.

My 1953 Sturmey gearbox has been rebuilt twice (1971 and 1998, mostly
preventative cleaning/ inspection in that its' never failed).
There are dead-after-one-season derailleur gear trains too.

different equipment, different riders, different mileage, different
environment, etc. Oh and as Mr Scheidt notes, salt.

I'm curious about the dead-after-one-season derailleur gear trains.
What are they, and what happens to them?

A certain poster who frequently brags about buying only the best has
just claimed "I used to wreck derailleurs too, complete new transmission
every thousand miles or so." I'm wondering how that's possible.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I can explain why my chain consumption is now one every 4506km, Franki-boy, and my consumption of chainrings and sprockets have improved by a factor of over ten, but I see absolutely no reason to justify myself to a worthless wannabe bully like you, Krygowski.

Andre Jute
When only competence will suffice, first lose Krygowski

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 9:11:12 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/17/2015 2:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/17/2015 2:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:


There's no single answer.

My 1953 Sturmey gearbox has been rebuilt twice (1971 and
1998, mostly
preventative cleaning/ inspection in that its' never failed).
There are dead-after-one-season derailleur gear trains too.

different equipment, different riders, different mileage,
different
environment, etc. Oh and as Mr Scheidt notes, salt.

I'm curious about the dead-after-one-season derailleur gear
trains. What are they, and what happens to them?

A certain poster who frequently brags about buying only the
best has just claimed "I used to wreck derailleurs too,
complete new transmission every thousand miles or so." I'm
wondering how that's possible.


Daily commuters in salt country eat them alive. Control
cables rust, rear changer lower spring sticks so there's no
chain tension, chain is worn out (never oiled once) and
whatever gear selection it was in when it stopped shifting
has worn teeth (often the small-small combination). Back to
XMart for another $79 bike which is cheaper than anything
with actual dealer prep or quality components, "looks just
like a bicycle".

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I knew that one day you would turn out to be a useful acquaintance, Mr Muzi. Where's this mart where I can buy bicycles like mine on demand for $79? Thank you, thank you, thank you, ever so graciously.

Andre Jute
Grateful

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 10:01:53 PM UTC, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 1:46:44 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 7:52:10 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:10:41 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:46:29 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

For what might be called "low intensity" riding my Shimano Nexus 8 red band has
worked just fine.

Both of mine worked fine for high intensity riding on bad roads too, especially the fully automatic Di2 one shown at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
They just didn't last too long.

Andre Jute

Gads, what happens if you get a rear flat? It looks like a 30 minute wheel change.

-- Jay Beattie.

You don't get a flat if you ride on appropriate tyres for that sort of bike, which are Schwalbe Marathon Plus or the Stateside equivalent which came on the bike, Bontrager Hardcase Elite, because Trek owns Bontrager.

But it isn't as bad as you think. The the part of the chaincase you need to remove to unhook the sprocket from the chain just clips up, so you squeeze it right and it comes right off. The hitch is the two axle nuts (which no rider of that sort of bike in his right mind will replace with wing nuts) for which of course you don't carry a spanner (American: wrench) because you don't take the lamps or the bell or the speedo with you when you park the bike, you just leave it all on, and leaving a spanner in the toolbox for a thief to use is dumb.

So, generally, if you really have to fix a flat on the road, very, very rarely, you do it with the wheel on the bike.

Andre Jute

But, we learned recently that you are not to use a patched tube right away, you are to use the on in your kit, and replaced it with the newly patched one.

You may have learned it, Landau, but why should I care? It doesn't apply to me. If that is the height of your wisdom, you have my sympathy for a dull life. I haven't patched a tube, ever, and certainly not in the 26 years of my most recent cycling stint. One doesn't have to if one specifies the tyres and tubes on the bicycle right. I don't carry a pump because it isn't required, nor a spare tube, same reason, and my stampsized instant patch kit is for offering to other cyclists less fortunate, not for my own use.

Andre Jute
Only an idiot believes that discomfort and pain defines his dedication to his sport

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:29:08 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 10:01:53 PM UTC, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 1:46:44 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 7:52:10 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 11:10:41 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 2:46:29 AM UTC, User Bp wrote:

For what might be called "low intensity" riding my Shimano Nexus 8 red band has
worked just fine.

Both of mine worked fine for high intensity riding on bad roads too, especially the fully automatic Di2 one shown at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
They just didn't last too long.

Andre Jute

Gads, what happens if you get a rear flat? It looks like a 30 minute wheel change.

-- Jay Beattie.

You don't get a flat if you ride on appropriate tyres for that sort of bike, which are Schwalbe Marathon Plus or the Stateside equivalent which came on the bike, Bontrager Hardcase Elite, because Trek owns Bontrager.

But it isn't as bad as you think. The the part of the chaincase you need to remove to unhook the sprocket from the chain just clips up, so you squeeze it right and it comes right off. The hitch is the two axle nuts (which no rider of that sort of bike in his right mind will replace with wing nuts) for which of course you don't carry a spanner (American: wrench) because you don't take the lamps or the bell or the speedo with you when you park the bike, you just leave it all on, and leaving a spanner in the toolbox for a thief to use is dumb.

So, generally, if you really have to fix a flat on the road, very, very rarely, you do it with the wheel on the bike.

Andre Jute

But, we learned recently that you are not to use a patched tube right away, you are to use the on in your kit, and replaced it with the newly patched one.

You may have learned it, Landau, but why should I care? It doesn't apply to me. If that is the height of your wisdom, you have my sympathy for a dull life. I haven't patched a tube, ever, and certainly not in the 26 years of my most recent cycling stint. One doesn't have to if one specifies the tyres and tubes on the bicycle right. I don't carry a pump because it isn't required, nor a spare tube, same reason, and my stampsized instant patch kit is for offering to other cyclists less fortunate, not for my own use.

Andre Jute
Only an idiot believes that discomfort and pain defines his dedication to his sport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i73LNY9ctFs

On 12/17/2015 4:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/17/2015 2:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/17/2015 2:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:


There's no single answer.

My 1953 Sturmey gearbox has been rebuilt twice (1971 and
1998, mostly
preventative cleaning/ inspection in that its' never failed).
There are dead-after-one-season derailleur gear trains too.

different equipment, different riders, different mileage,
different
environment, etc. Oh and as Mr Scheidt notes, salt.

I'm curious about the dead-after-one-season derailleur gear
trains. What are they, and what happens to them?

A certain poster who frequently brags about buying only the
best has just claimed "I used to wreck derailleurs too,
complete new transmission every thousand miles or so." I'm
wondering how that's possible.


Daily commuters in salt country eat them alive. Control cables rust,
rear changer lower spring sticks so there's no chain tension, chain is
worn out (never oiled once) and whatever gear selection it was in when
it stopped shifting has worn teeth (often the small-small combination).
Back to XMart for another $79 bike which is cheaper than anything with
actual dealer prep or quality components, "looks just like a bicycle".

Ah, I think I see.

I once posted here about encountering a young man bike commuting home
from his McDonalds job. He was many miles out in the country and
walking his bike because of a flat tire. I stopped and helped him fix it.

Immediately afterward, he got off to walk up a mild hill. I stopped
again and asked what was wrong. He said he never shifts gears because
with every bike he's had, that made it "break." He just rides his
X-mart bike in its highest gear, then buys a new BSO each year.

He was literally flabbergasted when I told him my bike was over 30 years
old and had been coast-to-coast plus on many other long tours.

I suggested he visit a real bike shop. I've always wondered if he ever did.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 17/12/15 00:47, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 11:08:36 PM UTC, James wrote:
On 16/12/15 08:20, Andre Jute wrote:


I wore out two Shimano 8 speed hub gearboxes under 5000 miles.
By contrast, a Rohloff box was just nicely run in approaching
10,000. All the same, I liked the Shimano boxes as a cheap
alternative to derailleurs. At the actual street price for a
Shimano gearbox and fitting kit, you can afford to fit a new box
every 5000 miles. The Rohloff is superior in use and lasts
forever, but at that price you want to know you'll keep and use
it for many years; it's not a trivial, trendy purchase, like a
Shimano 8 speed, nor for the sort of people who change their
bikes more often than their underwear.



Was that 5000 miles each?

The 5000 was someone else's reference point. My Shimano Nexus hub
gear boxes boxes wore out/broke at 3200km/2000m and at less than
that. You read that right; there isn't a zero missing. Reliable
people on the Continent, in places where these Nexus gearboxes are
almost the default fitment to everything but road bikes, say 50,000km
(extra zero, right), about 30,000m, is the upper limit that those run
with good service, and that poor service doesn't wreck them too
fast.

What was worn out, and was the worn out bit repairable without
replacing the hub shell?

You're joking, aren't you? The service kit for a Shimano Nexus
gearbox consists consists of a bowl-shaped pot with some oil in it;
the idea is that your take the lid off the box and stand the box in
the oil in the pot and then put the lid of the box back on. It cost
£38 at retail. The tool to remove the lid was more than that. Add
£18.50 for carriage and you're now up close to or sometimes more than
the price of a new Nexus from a German surplus dealer. You still
haven't bought any mechanical parts; just the service kit that will
be required anyway if you drain the box and handle the parts to fix
the mechanical.

Next problem, a consumer just about cannot get his hands on
mechanical replacement parts. Even simple, external small parts, like
the blocker for the Bowden cable, is not stocked by bike dealers. I
found one source in the UK, Petra. Check the parts they sell. Their
carriage isn't a rip and I recommend their service.

Shimano publishes excellent manuals, so in theory, until I started
costing service and repairs, I could have opened those boxes and
fixed them.

In practice, a Shimano Nexus box is a consumable item. If it breaks,
you buy a new one, more pointedly, you buy a new wheel with the Nexus
box already spoked in.

I get a lot more than 5000 miles from a cassette & two chains, and
a rear derailleur and freehub lasts many cassettes. Jockey wheels
may wear, but they're replaceable without wheel rebuilding.

Roundabout this time of the year you can buy surplus Shimano hub gear
wheels built for manufacturers who didn't require them for peanuts in
Germany and also in The Netherlands, though it is more difficult to
deal with the Dutch as they're not so keen on international mailorder
as the Germans.

Even so, a Shimano hub gearbox isn't about component replacement
economy in the same way that my highly developed Rohloff installation
is.

On my Shimano Nexus gearboxes, fitted with the complete Nexus groups,
I was lucky to get 1600km/1000km (again, you're reading it right,
there's no zero missing) out of a complete transmission drive group
of crankset (crank and chainring in one unit), chain and rear
sprocket. Utter crap. And that's inside an enclosed chaincase. You
can see the chaincases at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html on
the Trek and Gazelle bikes.

Nothing I've read about IGHs other than a Rohloff makes me want to
invest time and money to try one. I suspect I'd kill anything
other than a Rohloff sooner than I'd expect, and be frustrated by
**** engineering.

The truth is, James, that in a way I was impressed by those Shimano
gearboxes and the roller brakes, also from Shimano, they used, and
still am. They're cheap and cheerful, and feel good while they work.
While mean clocked out early, and there are reports of others
breaking before 10,000m, plenty soldier on to 15k and 20k, at which
point a Rohloff is just getting into its teenage years. But's futile
to judge a Shimano Nexus or Alfine by Rohloff standards; they don't
appeal to the same market and the price differential, comparing best
street prices, approaches a factor of 10.

I agree that someone with your background and temperament will be
"frustrated by **** engineering". But I like to see what people are
marketing, and entirely different thing from engineering, and asking
"HTF do they get away with it?"

And maybe I misused gearboxes intended for staid commuting for fast
riding on rough lanes. And I'm a retired sportsman, rugby and polo, a
95kg masher long accustomed to breaking bigger machinery than a
little Nexus HGB, which in part accounts for my expensive, but
longlasting (heh-heh) attraction to agricultural-strength German
vorsprung durch technik.


Thanks. I'll stick to external gears for now, unless a Rohloff appears
at a price I can justify.

--
JS