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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach:
1. There is no right to mountain bike. That was decided a decade ago in federal court: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10. Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. 95% of the conflicts he mentions are due to the presence of the bikes. Not too many hikers will approach at such a speed that they spook horses or scare other hikers! 2. Allowing bikes on trails forces land managers to either (a) build more trails, thus destroying more wildlife habitat or (b) kick hikers off of some of their trails, in order to cater to a small minority of recreationists (mountain bikers). Neither is fair or wise. 3. Bikes are harmful to wildlife and people: they accelerate erosion, create V-shaped ruts, kill small animals and plants on the trail, including tree roots (all of which a hiker can step over or around), and drive other trail users off the trails and out of the parks. 4. Mountain biking teaches kids that the rough treatment of nature is acceptable -- a BIG step backwards in an era when most people are becoming MORE concerned about nature. Mountain bikers are obviously people who can walk. I am not willing to sacrifice our scanty remaining wild lands, just so a few people can speed through them so fast that they can't possibly experience them (as Stienstra was doing in Butano State Park). === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#2
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
Mike Vandeman wrote:
Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. |
#3
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:11:18 -0700, Paul Cassel
wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. Maybe if you didn't wear shoes, you'd have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you are just being a hypocrite. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#4
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:11:18 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. Maybe if you didn't wear shoes, you'd have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you are just being a hypocrite. No, the point is that - by engaging in an activity shown to do equal damage to trails - you are the hypocrite. DUH! |
#5
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:43:12 -0800, cc wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote: On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:11:18 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. Maybe if you didn't wear shoes, you'd have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you are just being a hypocrite. No, the point is that - by engaging in an activity shown to do equal damage to trails Repeating that lie doesn't make it true. - you are the hypocrite. DUH! === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#6
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:43:12 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:11:18 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. Maybe if you didn't wear shoes, you'd have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you are just being a hypocrite. No, the point is that - by engaging in an activity shown to do equal damage to trails Repeating that lie doesn't make it true. That "lie" is backed up by scientists who are accredited and publish in peer-reviewed journals. You do not, and your opinion is therefore meaningless. Get the picture? |
#7
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
Mike Vandeman wrote: There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: Here's the reference to the original article, entitled Gridlock in Wild Areas. The article suggests ways to mitigate user conflicts in recreation areas. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sn=001&sc=1000 |
#8
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Another Vandemann Lie!! Out of Context and without citations
wrote in message ps.com... Mike Vandeman wrote: There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: Here's the reference to the original article, entitled Gridlock in Wild Areas. The article suggests ways to mitigate user conflicts in recreation areas. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sn=001&sc=1000 |
#9
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Another Vandemann Lie!! Out of Context and without citations
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:52:22 GMT, "JP" wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Mike Vandeman wrote: There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: Here's the reference to the original article, entitled Gridlock in Wild Areas. The article suggests ways to mitigate user conflicts in recreation areas. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sn=001&sc=1000 So where's the lie? (Hint: there aren't any. That's why you didn't quote any.) === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#10
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Another Vandemann Lie!! Actually a number of them. But what else is new?
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:52:22 GMT, "JP" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Mike Vandeman wrote: There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: Here's the reference to the original article, entitled Gridlock in Wild Areas. The article suggests ways to mitigate user conflicts in recreation areas. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sn=001&sc=1000 So where's the lie? (Hint: there aren't any. That's why you didn't quote any.) Wrong, you poor wannabe naturalist. Your unsubstantiated opinion is the LIE. Yu haven't cited evidence to back any of your claims. Ever. Your website is not proof. But you can't help it. There is no evidence that supports any of your claims. No legitimate agenmcy will give you the time of day. That is why your sad little impotent quest gets played out on AMB 1. Citizens have the right to use wilderness areas, our taxes support them. That use includes two wheeled non-motorized vehicles. I spooked horses running on trails...LIAR!!!! 2. Hikers have no more right to trails than bikes, regardless of your opinion. Neither do horses. If an equestrian cannot control their animal they do not belong in public. LIAR!!! 3. Bikes are no more harmful to the environment than pedestrian use, in fact hikers like wider trails. Your continues rants don't make it so. LIAR!!! 4. Mountain bikes don't teach kids to beat on nature, that's anouther BS LIE. 5. Being able to ride a mopuntain bike is not evidence of being able to walk. Floyd Landis, who won the TDF, would be unable to walk a mile on a hiking trail. But he could ride them if he wished. Another specious remark by Lying MIke Vandeman. And there are thousands like him, with joint damage etc who cannot hike yet can ride. LIAR!!! Your biggest LIE of course is the one where you neglect to mention the damage caused by equestrian use. HORSES destroy trails!!! But you have a hard-on for mountain bikes so you will colntinue to LIE!!! Yawn......did you say something??? |
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